Mankind vs Peoplekind,希尔翩翩总理风!

本帖由 明的凡2019-10-07 发布。版面名称:华人论坛

  1. tt8966

    tt8966 知名会员 ID:101826

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    没觉得Scheer多么厉害,但是至少列举了一些事实,土豆Again,说的最多的就是形容词和Harper:evil:
    Singh 和May解惑了从哪里弄钱来给免费医疗,免学费之类的许诺:从大公司拿钱,但这俩zhu想了没有,大公司就那么兔子等着你割,跑的还不少吗?是想把大公司全都撵出加拿大,会有多少人失业,没钱养家了?还拿个屁给免费医疗和学费:kan:
     
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  2. tt8966

    tt8966 知名会员 ID:101826

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    不知道土豆上次咋当上的,满嘴空话,很少列举事实
     
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  3. duskanddawn

    duskanddawn 知名会员 ID:2508

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    希尔表现确实还不错,只是有点攻击性多,保守党这次稳扎稳打,提出不少政纲,希尔没时间讲全
     
  4. 明的凡

    明的凡 资深人士 ID:106409

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    看了这场辩论,终于明白小土豆为什么会冒天下之大不韪逃避第一场英文辩论了。那场的主题是外交政策,小土豆更是一无是处。
     
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  5. 明的凡

    明的凡 资深人士 ID:106409

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    作为反对党,是攻擂的一方,多点儿攻击性好。
     
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  6. tt8966

    tt8966 知名会员 ID:101826

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    他背后的butt比他聪明点儿,估计出了不少主意,不过不是用在Canadian的利益上了
     
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  7. tt8966

    tt8966 知名会员 ID:101826

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    Max的政策对加拿大人来说不错,除非有人故意曲解他的政策,只可惜他拉杆子太晚了,估计Scheer的政策跟Max的大方向一致,只不过没那么blunt,毕竟Scheer影响大一些,还得政治正确一下。Max知道他这次希望不大,所以也没什么顾忌
     
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  8. tt8966

    tt8966 知名会员 ID:101826

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    土豆也在许诺,还什么为中产阶层,只target top 1%,狗屁,最后还不得carbon tax,plastic tax来从中产阶级身上拿钱
     
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  9. ccc

    ccc 难得糊涂 ID:6614 管理成员 VIP

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    The English-language leaders' debate: Our pundits pronounce
    From immigration to climate change, from Indigenous issues to affordability, six federal leaders presented their views in Monday night’s English-language debate. We asked the Citizen’s panel of political observers to sort through their remarks.

    Ottawa Citizen Editorial Board
    Updated: October 7, 2019
    [​IMG]
    Federal party leaders ready for debate: Green Party leader Elizabeth May, Liberal leader Justin Trudeau, Conservative leader Andrew Scheer, People's Party of Canada leader Maxime Bernier, Bloc Québécois leader Yves-Francois Blanchet and NDP leader Jagmeet Singh. POOL / REUTERS

    From immigration to climate change, from Indigenous issues to affordability, six federal leaders presented their views in Monday night’s English-language debate. We asked the Citizen’s panel of political observers to sort through their remarks.

    Gloria Galloway is an Ottawa freelance journalist who has covered federal politics for more than 20 years.Brigitte Pellerin is an Ottawa writer and commentator. Kathy Brock is a professor in the School of Policy Studies at Queen’s University. Shachi Kurl is Executive Director of the Angus Reid Institute, a national, not-for-profit, non-partisan public opinion research foundation.

    1) Which leader had the strongest performance (or exceeded your expectations)?

    Gloria Galloway: I have to give the strongest-performance award to NDP leader Jagmeet Singh, with a close second to Green Party leader Elizabeth May. Both answered questions directly without turning every response into a personal attack. That said, Singh’s best line was about Justin Trudeau wanting to keep SNC-Lavalin out of court but dragging Indigenous kids through the courts by appealing a decision that would have compensated those who were separated from their families by the underfunded child welfare system.

    Brigitte Pellerin: Conservative leader Andrew Scheer was solid, focused and exuded confidence. He was the best prepared for the exercise. I especially liked how he congratulated Singh for the way he had handled issues of racism. Speaking of the NDP leader, he gets a lot of points for appearing very comfortable on the stage and for making me laugh when he told People’s Party leader Maxime Bernier he should just have said, “Hey man, I messed up” when the moderator confronted Bernier with his worst tweets.

    Shachi Kurl: The debate was frustrating due to format: six leaders, five moderators, limits of 40-second answers in some cases, plus equivalency between fringe parties and main players. We needed to hear more from Scheer and Trudeau, the leaders with the greatest chances of forming government.

    No one actually made much attempt to speak to the swing audiences they needed to reach. But Scheer was effective in hitting Trudeau at every opportunity on why Trudeau doesn’t deserve to be re-elected – which won’t help Trudeau.

    Kathy Brock: Jagmeet Singh held the floor well throughout the debate. He made his points succinctly and well. He came across as caring when he referred to the plight of individuals he had met and when he outlined NDP policies. He rose to the occasion in positioning the NDP well in the election. He also had a few good lines, including referring to Trudeau and Scheer as Mr. Delay and Mr. Deny.

    [​IMG]
    Conservative leader Andrew Scheer (right) and Liberal leader Justin Trudeau debate a point Monday night. POOL / REUTERS

    2) Which leader managed to convey a sense of the party’s platform or policies most effectively?

    Gloria Galloway: I will give kudos to Scheer for reiterating with such conviction his plan to get rid of the carbon tax. Unfortunately for him and the Conservatives, I don’t think that is going to win the additional votes they need from centrist Canadians who are on the fence politically but are concerned about climate change.

    Brigitte Pellerin: It is a feature of these debates that leaders excel at attacking their opponents’ platforms, not so much at selling their own. I was not impressed by anyone’s sales pitch, except for a brief moment when Scheer systematically, if rapidly, ran through his promises to leave more money in the pockets of Canadians. As well, Singh did a fine job on pharmacare, winning this round by using a highly effective figure of speech to make his point: “Use your health card to get medication, not your credit card.”

    Shachi Kurl: No one did. They were too busy going on the attack or interrupting each other.

    Kathy Brock: Not surprisingly, Bloc Québécois leader Yves-François Blanchet used the opportunity to present himself as the protector of Quebec. His ideas on equalization, a single tax form, and Bill 21 came across clearly. However, it was in his consistent protection of provincial jurisdiction that he shone. In contrast, Trudeau portrayed himself as standing up for Canadians rather than defending Quebec when Blanchet raised equalization and pipelines on Quebec’s territory. This may affect voter perceptions in close ridings in Quebec.

    3) What did you learn that surprised you most? Was there a “defining” moment?

    Gloria Galloway: I honestly did not hear a defining moment in this debate, which too often was just a cacophony of noise. I don’t think the debate moved the yardsticks in any direction and I can’t imagine there was anything said on that stage that was hugely helpful to Canadians who have not yet decided how they will vote.

    Brigitte Pellerin: Bernier surprised me with his answer on Indigenous issues. All other leaders are committed to the status quo, he said, and the system is broken. He said his party would bring forward property rights on reserves, which is clear and concrete if nothing else. He made his point calmly and efficiently, in sharp contrast to his other interventions. If Bernier were like this all the time, he’d do a heck of a lot better than single-digit support.

    Kathy Brock: Three points of convergence really struck me. First, Scheer appeared very genuine and caring when he congratulated Singh on his handling of racial issues. Later, Singh joined Scheer’s criticism of Trudeau’s attempt to avoid prosecution of SNC-Lavalin while pursuing the court case involving Indigenous children. Finally, all of the leaders portrayed Trudeau as misrepresenting facts and breaking promises. While it is expected that other party leaders will attack the governing party leader, the message is not usually so consistent. The defining “moment” may be a series of moments – when party leaders repeatedly said that “Mr. Trudeau has his facts wrong”.

    Shachi Kurl: There were no defining moments, but some “zingers” such as Trudeau saying that Bernier says publicly what Scheer says privately. Or Scheer accusing Bernier of being motivated by “likes” in the darkest part of twitter. And of course Singh, referring to Trudeau and Scheer on climate change, saying “You don’t need to choose between Mr. Delay and Mr. Deny.”



    [​IMG]
    Bloc Quebecois leader Yves-Francois Blanchet (L) and NDP leader Jagmeet Singh face off in the leaders’ debate. (Photo by Justin Tang / POOL / AFP) JUSTIN TANG / POOL/AFP via Getty Images

    4) Did anything you heard during the debate change your view of a leader or a party?

    Gloria Galloway: This was, for me, a good introduction to BQ leader Blanchet, who was calm, reasoned and humorous, but he is not going to lead the country. I went into this debate expecting Liberal leader Justin Trudeau to be thrown off his game by the attacks of the other leaders. He instead held his ground and, while he dodged answers on topics he did not like – like the leadoff question on world affairs and the question about his pipeline purchase – he managed to look calm and in control.

    Brigitte Pellerin: May’s suggestion to establish a “war cabinet” to fight the climate crisis surprised me. She didn’t get to expand on this very much, and the devil is no doubt in the details, but I found the brief mention very intriguing. It’s in the party’s platform but somehow it hadn’t registered with me until she said it, and it suggests the party cares more about the issue than about political power which, if true, is remarkably refreshing.

    Kathy Brock: Scheer has a sense of humour! He helped cover the moderator’s mistake of calling Singh Mr. “Scheer” with his comment that he was the taller one. He also got a reaction when he suggested that if Trudeau is so obsessed with provincial politics (and Doug Ford), he should apply for the leadership of the Ontario Liberal Party. This showed Canadians a new, likeable side of him.

    Shachi Kurl: Both Scheer and Singh looked good and were strong. They needed recognition from and connection with the audience. I think they got that. Both were calm and came off seriously. Singh was charming at moments. Makes you wonder what the outcome would be if they had started bringing their A-game much earlier in their leadership tenures.

    Trudeau had the most to lose tonight and may have lost a lot. The format was not in his favour, he chose not to defend himself against Scheer’s many attacks. He may have been advised not to take Scheer seriously, but sometimes passed on chances to fight him, possibly at his peril.

    [​IMG]
    Green Party leader Elizabeth May speaks during the leaders’ debate. SEAN KILPATRICK / POOL/AFP via Getty Images


     
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  10. 明的凡

    明的凡 资深人士 ID:106409

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    希望在希尔拿到多数的前提下人民党能拿到2-5席。这样有保守党掌大盘子、有人民党负责说话,加拿大政治将有望走向一个比较良性的发展状态。
     
  11. ccc

    ccc 难得糊涂 ID:6614 管理成员 VIP

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    [​IMG]

    Conservative Leader Andrew Scheer’s opening statement aimed at Liberal Leader Justin Trudeau set the tone. “Mr. Trudeau, you are a phoney and a fraud and you don’t deserve to govern this country,” he said.

    Scheer wasn’t alone in exhibiting chauvinism, with added hypocrisy.

    NDP Leader Jagmeet Singh talked about building bridges to bring people together and then invoked class envy by dumping on “the powerful,” “the wealthy” and “those at the top.” Singh said he is opposed to laws that divide people but was muted in his criticism of Quebec’s Bill 21, which has the support of around 70 per cent of the population in the province.

    Green Leader Elizabeth May was the only person onstage who talked about setting aside partisanship to work together. But then she ruined all her fine words by blasting Scheer’s plan to cut foreign aid by 25 per cent as “the worst idea in your short-term, misguided, greedy and selfish non-platform.”

    Small wonder that an Elections Canada survey found a majority of Canadians have not much confidence in federal political parties.

    There were some effective cheap shots — Scheer said People’s Party Leader Maxime Bernier’s motivation was to generate “’likes’ and retweets from the darkest parts of Twitter”; Bloc Québécois Leader Yves-Francois Blanchet condemned Liberal foreign policy: “Don’t show your biceps if you have tiny biceps”; Trudeau, referring to Bernier’s views on immigration, claimed the Beauce MP is saying publicly what Scheer thinks privately.

    Leaders spoke regularly about respect and dignity but showed none to each other.

    [​IMG]
    Liberal leader Justin Trudeau and Conservative Leader Andrew Scheer during the Federal leaders debate in Gatineau, Quebec, Oct. 7, 2019. Justin Tang/Pool/AFP via Getty Images

    The most dramatic point in the evening occurred when Scheer was given the chance to confront Trudeau directly. He turned to face up to his nemesis and asked, in reference to the SNC affair: “When did you decide the rules don’t apply to you?”

    A back and forth on whose platform spends more money concluded with Trudeau playing the old Doug Ford service cuts card.

    Singh spoke for most of the watching public when he said the two men were arguing over who will be worse for Canada.

    The loser in all this was Andrew Scheer. The Conservative leader needed to have a big night, after a week in which his reputation was pounded by his opponents for the alleged lack of transparency on his resumé, his views on issues of conscience and his nationality.

    He was more spirited than during last week’s French debate — “I have nothing to learn from Mr. Trudeau who fired the first Indigenous attorney general for doing her job,” he said at one point.

    He seemed to enjoy brushing off Bernier on one flank and Trudeau on the other. He may even have regained some of the momentum he generated in the campaign’s early days.

    But he is hamstrung by being too narrow in his sympathies.

    Few people who watched will feel that they witnessed a leader they can trust

    [​IMG]

    Scheer offered little to the nearly one third of voters who haven’t yet made up their minds. Of those, the majority told Abacus Data they would prefer to see a Liberal, rather than a Conservative, government.

    The Tory leader has been a one-trick pony during this campaign, vocal on the issue of “getting ahead.”

    “Will this be a country where you struggle to get by or a country where life is affordable? That’s what this federal election will come down to,” he says at every stop he makes.

    But Scheer has not dared to be great — his one big idea being a national energy corridor that appears unworkable, given the opposition in Quebec and among First Nations.

    His base is too narrow to win government without picking up more centrist support.

    His spurious climate change plan has alienated voters who might otherwise have opted for the Conservatives — he looked naked when the leaders were asked about a concrete plan to address big business polluters.

    He tried to divert attention toward Trudeau’s two campaign planes — “You bought carbon offsets but that’s a thing privileged people do to keep polluting.”

    [​IMG]
    Liberal Leader Justin Trudeau looks on as Conservative Leader Andrew Scheer and Green Party leader Elizabeth May discuss a point during the Federal leaders debate in Gatineau, Quebec, Oct. 7, 2019. Sean Kilpatrick/Pool/AFP via Getty Images

    Trudeau’s response will resonate with many people who may otherwise have tired of him. “You plan to rip up the only serious plan to fight climate change Canada has ever had,” he accused Scheer.

    The Conservative leader’s failure to position his party in the political centre has stranded a swathe of voters, forced to look askance at a Liberal party that is too far to the left and a Conservative party that is too far to the right.

    If the Tories lose this election, putting a price on carbon is an issue they will have to revisit or risk being left looking like a BlackBerry in an iPhone world.

    Justin Trudeau, liberated by the dubious economic orthodoxy that debts and deficits don’t matter, was free to boast about Liberal largesse, like an arsonist brandishing a blowtorch.

    The only sense Bernier made all evening was when he said to all the other leaders that “governments that spend, spend, spend cannot create wealth … you cannot spend your way to prosperity.”

    Long gone is the hopeful Liberal narrative from 2015, in favour of carpet-bombing the federal Conservatives and their provincial allies. At one point, Scheer said Trudeau is “oddly obsessed” with provincial politics and encouraged him to run for the vacant Ontario Liberal leadership.

    Singh tried to nibble into Trudeau’s progressive support by asking why he keeps letting down people who voted Liberal in the last election.

    “You say a lot of nice things but … your words are not good enough,” he said.

    Trudeau was oddly subdued but he knew he was protecting his position as front-runner. The closest he came to looking rattled was when May unloaded on him. “Please God you don’t get another majority — you don’t keep your promises,” she said.

    Her parting shot was at Scheer, telling him he will not be prime minister and that the choice for Canadians is now between a Trudeau majority and Trudeau minority. She may well be right but, if so, it is a sad reflection of the choices on offer.

    The Canadian political system has been a success because of its moderation, pragmatism, common sense and the willingness of its principal actors to compromise.

    Those days, it seems, are gone — and with them has dissolved investment in the political process.

    https://nationalpost.com/news/polit...real-losers?video_autoplay=true#comments-area
     
  12. 明的凡

    明的凡 资深人士 ID:106409

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  13. ccc

    ccc 难得糊涂 ID:6614 管理成员 VIP

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    胆子再大一点儿。
     
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  14. 明的凡

    明的凡 资深人士 ID:106409

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  15. ccc

    ccc 难得糊涂 ID:6614 管理成员 VIP

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    [​IMG]

    OTTAWA— A two-hour election debate Monday saw federal party leaders clash over ethics, climate change and the economy but saw no one immediately emerge as the clear winner, although they slung one-liners, insults and criticisms across the stage as Liberal Leader Justin Trudeau’s rivals sought to stake a claim to his job as prime minister.

    The English debate got off to a hot and bitter start between front-runners Trudeau and Conservative Leader Andrew Scheer after a question from the audience about how each leader would represent Canada’s values and interests on the international stage.

    [​IMG]
    Conservative Leader Andrew Scheer gestures towards Liberal Leader Justin Trudeau as he speaks during the federal leaders debate on Monday. (Sean Kilpatrick / THE CANADIAN PRESS)

    Scheer immediately attacked Trudeau as a “phoney and a fraud” as he challenged the Liberal leader’s handling of the SNC-Lavalin affair, energy projects, and his economic record. “Justin Trudeau pretends to stand up for Canada,” Scheer said. “He cannot even remember how many times he put blackface on.”

    “He’s always wearing a mask,” Scheer continued, pointing to Trudeau’s claims to be an advocate of Indigenous reconciliation, feminism and the middle class.

    “You’re a phoney and you’re a fraud and you do not deserve an opportunity to govern this country,” he charged.

    The leaders of the progressive parties fought to stake out turf on environmental and everyday concerns of Canadians, while the conservative leaders fought over immigration, pipelines and deficits.

    In a second direct challenge between the two main contenders, Scheer turned to attack Trudeau over his failure to present a platform that had been completely costed by the parliamentary budget officer, and over the SNC-Lavalin scandal. Trudeau countered that his platform was costed, and that the Conservatives haven’t presented their entire policy book. On SNC-Lavalin, he said Scheer did not realize the job of a prime minister is to fight for Canadians jobs.

    New Democratic Party Leader Jagmeet Singh jumped in: “What we have here is Mr. Trudeau and Mr. Scheer arguing for who’s worse for Canada,” he said.

    The debate marked the first time all six leaders shared a stage. It devolved into a confusing free-for-all at times, but also had moments of collegiality.

    Scheer and Green Party Leader Elizabeth May praised Singh for handling incidents of racism in the campaign with grace and class. Singh was accosted by a man in Montreal last week who told him to cut off his turban so he would “look like a Canadian.”

    Trudeau agreed Singh had handled racism with “eloquence ... but I’m the only one on the stage that said yes, the federal government may have to intervene” in a court challenge of a Quebec law that prohibits some public servants from wearing visible symbols of their religious faiths.

    “Every single day of my life is challenging people who think that you can’t do things because of the way you look,” Singh shot back. “Every single day of my life I channel people who feel that as well.”

    Singh said the fact he’s in the race is a challenge to Quebecers to see past his religious garb. “I am running to be prime minister of this country,” he said. “I am going to Quebec and telling people that I want to be your prime minister.”

    But later, Singh told reporters that, as prime minister, he might intervene if the case went to the Supreme Court.

    There were moments of levity too. In fending off criticisms on the right and left, Trudeau twice called the NDP leader “Mr. Scheer,” prompting laughter. “I’m very, very different from Mr. Scheer,” Singh replied.

    When a moderator later also called him “Mr. Scheer,” Singh cracked that “a lot of people are getting me mixed up,” to laughter from the audience. “I wore a bright orange turban on purpose today.”

    Singh was the easily the most personable and relaxed leader onstage, and his supporters claimed he’d “won” the night.

    People’s Party of Canada Leader Maxime Bernier was challenged on his social media posts, which described diversity as a cult and called environmental leader Greta Thunberg “mentally unstable.”

    “We don’t want our country to be like other countries in Europe where they have a huge difficulty to integrate their immigrants,” Bernier said, prompting Trudeau to claim that Bernier says publicly what Scheer thinks privately.

    Singh called Bernier out, saying, “You could have just said, ‘Hey man, I messed up’ because those are pretty horrible tweets.”

    Scheer said that Bernier, a former Conservative cabinet minister, was someone who used to believe in an immigration policy that was “fair, orderly and compassionate.

    “Now you are making your policy based on trying to get likes and retweets from the darkest parts of Twitter,” Scheer said.

    Trudeau was the target in the English debate more than he had been in last week’s French debate. He was taken to task by Bernier, Scheer and Bloc Québécois Leader Yves-Francois Blanchet for fighting with provinces.

    Scheer portrayed Trudeau’s carbon-pricing plan as a tax that would raise the price of cost of living, which Trudeau disputed.

    He said he’d reversed the pattern of the previous Conservative government under Stephen Harper, whom he accused of refusing to work with the provinces.

    But he acknowledged “fighting the defining issue of our time” with some provinces because Alberta Premier “Jason Kenney and (Ontario Premier) Doug Ford, and other Conservative premiers don’t want to do anything on climate change and we need a government in Ottawa that is going to fight them and fight for Canadians.”

    May said the Liberal goal for cutting emissions is a “target for losing the fight against climate change,” and she repeatedly challenged Scheer for having no climate action targets.

    Singh got off one of the best lines of the night as Trudeau and Scheer bickered over climate change: “Ladies and gentlemen, you do not have to choose between Mr. Delay and Mr. Deny.”

    At times, the format choked discussions among the two leading contenders as a cacophony of voices drowned out the debate.

    With polls showing a close race between the Liberals and Conservatives, Scheer and Trudeau took direct aim at each other when they could, with Trudeau grilling Scheer in the last half-hour over his position on abortion. Trudeau had tried to stay above the fray, adopting a measured and at times oddly low-key stance, but late in the evening exhibited more fire.

    He took Scheer to task over backing Conservative candidates who have pledged to take away a woman’s right to choose. Scheer said while he was personally against abortion, the “laws of access” to abortion services have not changed in Canada in 30 years under Liberal or Conservative governments, and would not change under a government led by him.

    Singh jumped in, saying, “A man has no position in a discussion on a woman’s right to choose, let me clear on that.”

    Singh and Blanchet targeted May for failing to rule out working with Scheer’s Conservatives.

    On Indigenous issues, Scheer was challenged for resisting the United Nations Declaration on Indigenous Rights and its requirement that development projects have the free, prior and informed consent of Indigenous people. May told Scheer the Canadian constitution requires it, and it doesn’t mean you say “we’ll consult you until you agree with us.”

    The debate, organized by a group of media organizations that included the Toronto Star, CBC and CTV, is the first of two this week. A French debate is scheduled for Thursday night.

    https://www.thestar.com/politics/fe...was-a-six-way-fight-with-no-clear-winner.html
     

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