真的假的，黑海舰队旗舰发生大爆炸

[阿土仔]

前苏联的古董。会不会自己炸的，栽赃纯情的乌克兰，为自己下一步用核武器找借口？

问题是乌克兰那边认账呀……

 

[Littlecesar]

不论是不是二毛子打的，大毛子即使最好的战斗舰可能也没很好的区域防空或拒止能力。
能滴水不漏的防空和防导弹袭击，经过实战检验的，只有美国的驱逐舰和巡洋舰。英法日的几款驱逐舰和老美的一起训练得多，估计能力也超强。
老中的几款从配置上讲也不错，从技术上和工业能力上讲，也不差。只是没有实战检验，也没有有实力战经验的国家带着训练，攻击力可能很强，但要做到滴水不漏的防守还是很难。

 

[茶马盐铁]

如果你相信乌克兰方面的说法， 那么莫斯科号就沉了；
如果你相信俄罗斯方面的说法， 那么莫斯科号就没事，好着呢。

说白了， 你们也都是道听途说， 你们去过莫斯科号吗？你们了解莫斯科号吗？你们知道莫斯科号是怎么从一艘连龙骨都没有的船架子变成了有那么多超音速反舰导弹的舰队旗舰的吗？如果莫斯科号那么容易沉没的话，能取得这么大的成就吗？我要告诉你， 最了解莫斯科号实际情况的不是你！ 而是莫斯科号上的船员。 你们没有发言权， 莫斯科号的水手才有发言权！

 

[wei_cheng]

可是，美国已经有 RQ-4B Global Hawk 过去看了呀！明明有人验证，为啥要引用不知道从立陶宛和台湾转了几圈的垃圾把 CFC 粪坑化？

“We know she suffered an explosion,” Kirby said in an interview on MSNBC. “It looks like — from the images that we have been able to look at — it looks like it was a pretty sizable explosion, too. We don’t know what caused that explosion.”
The warship is now heading further east, he added, and U.S. officials assess it will likely dock at Sevastopol.

Pentagon confirms explosion aboard Russian warship

Ukraine claimed credit for the blast, which Russia said was the result of an internal fire.

www.politico.com

Pentagon: "There was an explosion" on the Russian warship but US can't assess at this point if missile hit it

The US and EU have pledged a combined $1.3 billion more in military aid for Ukraine as Russia prepares to launch an eastern offensive.

www.cnn.com

如果你相信乌克兰方面的说法， 那么莫斯科号就沉了；
如果你相信俄罗斯方面的说法， 那么莫斯科号就没事，好着呢。

说白了， 你们也都是道听途说， 你们去过莫斯科号吗？你们了解莫斯科号吗？你们知道莫斯科号是怎么从一艘连龙骨都没有的船架子变成了有那么多超音速反舰导弹的舰队旗舰的吗？如果莫斯科号那么容易沉没的话，能取得这么大的成就吗？我要告诉你， 最了解莫斯科号实际情况的不是你！ 而是莫斯科号上的船员。 你们没有发言权， 莫斯科号的水手才有发言权！

 

[茶马盐铁]

可是，美国已经有 RQ-4B Global Hawk 过去看了呀！

“We know she suffered an explosion,” Kirby said in an interview on MSNBC. “It looks like — from the images that we have been able to look at — it looks like it was a pretty sizable explosion, too. We don’t know what caused that explosion.”
The warship is now heading further east, he added, and U.S. officials assess it will likely dock at Sevastopol.

Pentagon confirms explosion aboard Russian warship

Ukraine claimed credit for the blast, which Russia said was the result of an internal fire.

www.politico.com

Pentagon: "There was an explosion" on the Russian warship but US can't assess at this point if missile hit it

The US and EU have pledged a combined $1.3 billion more in military aid for Ukraine as Russia prepares to launch an eastern offensive.

www.cnn.com

那就更没悬念了。 美国人都已经亲眼看到了莫斯科号依然在航行， 那么你怎么说是沉默了呢？

可说到底， 你也不在黑海上看着那艘船，更没有骑着全球鹰去现场检查。 用来做判断的都是二手信息。 所以还是只能回到我所指出的：

如果你相信乌克兰方面的说法， 那么莫斯科号就沉了；
如果你相信俄罗斯方面的说法， 那么莫斯科号就没事，好着呢。

 

[wei_cheng]

不要学轮子二极管式的逻辑。Moskva 号是否失去动力或者倾斜观众尚不清楚，但天亮老美就让 RQ-4B 去拍了、由国防部研判，不管是由拖船辅助还是自行驶往 Sevastopol，美国国防部发言人说的就是这么一回事 (乐子人掩饰不了笑容)。

那就更没悬念了。 美国人都已经亲眼看到了莫斯科号依然在航行， 那么你怎么说是沉默了呢？

可说到底， 你也不在黑海上看着那艘船，更没有骑着全球鹰去现场检查。 用来做判断的都是二手信息。 所以还是只能回到我所指出的：

如果你相信乌克兰方面的说法， 那么莫斯科号就沉了；
如果你相信俄罗斯方面的说法， 那么莫斯科号就没事，好着呢。

 

[lindamy]

美国五角大楼的说法：这船还漂着,正在自己跨越黑海，可能打算靠某个港口维修。这是一艘重要的旗舰，发生了严重的爆炸，原因不明，俄国和乌克兰两边说法很不同。

51 min ago

Pentagon: "There was an explosion" on the Russian warship but US can't assess at this point if missile hit it​

From CNN's Jamie Crawford

Pentagon press secretary John Kirby speaks with CNN on Thursday. (CNN)

Pentagon press secretary John Kirby told CNN that “there was an explosion” on the Russian cruiser Moskva, but added the United States cannot assess at this point if the ship was hit by a missile.

Russia said its warship "remains afloat" after a fire detonated ammunition on board, while Ukrainian officials said the Moskva was hit by Ukrainian Neptune anti-ship missiles and has sunk.

“We’re not quite exactly sure what happened here. We do assess that there was an explosion — at least one explosion on this cruiser — a fairly major one at that, that has caused extensive damage to the ship,” Kirby said.

Kirby said the damaged Russian warship is afloat and "making her own way across the Black Sea."

“We assess that the ship is able to make its own way, and it is doing that; it's heading more towards now we think the east. We think it's probably going to be putting in at Sevastopol for repairs, but we don’t know what exactly caused that,” Kirby added.

Kirby said the ship had been operating with a few other Russian vessels about 60 miles (about 96 kilometers) south of Odesa.

"The explosion was sizable enough that we picked up indications that other naval vessels around her tried to come to her assistance, and so eventually that wasn’t apparently needed. So she is making her own way across the Black Sea and we’ll continue to try and monitor this as best we can," he added.

Meanwhile, US President Joe Biden's national security adviser Jake Sullivan said on Thursday that the battleship was badly damaged on Wednesday as a result of either “incompetence” or a successful attack by the Ukrainians.

“We’ve been in touch with the Ukrainians overnight who said they struck the ship with anti-ship missiles,” Sullivan told an audience at the Economic Club of Washington, DC “We don’t have the capacity at this point to independently verify that, but certainly the way that this unfolded is a big blow to Russia.”

“This is their flagship, the ‘Moscow,’ and they’ve now been forced to admit that it’s been badly damaged,” Sullivan continued. “And they’ve had to kind of choose between two stories. One story is that it was just incompetence, and the other is that they came under attack. And neither is a particularly good outcome for them.”

Sullivan said that when the president went to NATO a few weeks ago, he indicated to allies that the US was looking to facilitate the supply of coastal defense and anti-ship capabilities to the Ukrainians “and that is being actively worked.”

CNN's Natasha Bertrand contributed reporting to this post.

 

[茶马盐铁]

不要学轮子二极管式的逻辑。Moskva 号是否失去动力或者倾斜尚不清楚，不管是由拖船辅助还是自行驶往 Sevastopol，美国国防部发言人说的就是这么一回事。

你这是捣浆糊的说法。

什么叫轮子的二极管逻辑？难道一个简单的是非判断就成了轮子发明的专利了？那你以后不要用电脑了。

现在的判断非常简单， 不要来扯什么动力啊， 倾斜啊。 这都是你放的烟雾弹而已。

一条船， 一条水面舰艇，只有两个状态： 要么浮在水面上， 要么沉入水底。

CFC上没有人在黑海上空盘旋， 也没有人在现场。
乌克兰说沉了；
俄罗斯说浮着。

就这么简单， 你相信哪一个？

 

[lindamy]

将近8 个小时前的报道和卫星照片。

7 hr 57 min ago

Russia's loss of naval flagship is a devastating blow, experts say​

From CNN's Brad Lendon

The Russian navy's Black Sea flagship, the cruiser Moskva, is seen in a satellite image off the coast of Crimea on April 10. (Satellite Image © 2022 Maxar Technologies)


One of the Russian Navy’s most important warships is either floating abandoned or at the bottom of the Black Sea, a massive blow to a military struggling against Ukrainian resistance 50 days into Vladimir Putin’s invasion of his neighbor.

Russian sailors have evacuated the guided-missile cruiser Moskva, the flagship of its Black Sea fleet, after a fire that detonated ammunition aboard, Russian state media reported Wednesday.

State media outlets TASS and RIA, citing the Russian Defense Ministry, said the Moskva had been seriously damaged in the incident and that the cause of the fire was being investigated. The Russian reports gave no information on possible casualties.

But hours earlier, a Ukrainian official claimed the Russian warship had been hit by cruise missiles fired from Ukraine.

Due to large storms over the Black Sea obscuring satellite imagery and sensory satellite data, CNN has not been able to visually confirm the ship has been hit or its current status, but analysts noted that a fire on board such a ship can lead to a catastrophic explosion that could sink it.

Whatever the reason for the fire, the analysts say it strikes hard at the heart of the Russian navy as well as national pride, comparable to the US Navy losing a battleship during World War II or an aircraft carrier today.

“Only the loss of a ballistic missile submarine or the Kutznetsov (Russia’s lone aircraft carrier) would inflict a more serious blow to Russian morale and the navy’s reputation with the Russian public,” said Carl Schuster, a retired US Navy captain and former director of operations at the US Pacific Command’s Joint Intelligence Center.

"Massive blow": Alessio Patalano, professor of war and strategy at King’s College in London, said losing the warship would be a “massive blow” for Russia.

“Ships operate away from public attention and their activities are rarely the subject of news. But they are large floating pieces of national territory, and when you lose one, a flagship no less, the political and symbolic message — in addition to the military loss — stands out precisely because of it,” he said.

Read more here.

 

[阿土仔]

会不会有时间差？这是乌克兰的信息。​

==========================================================

乌总统顾问：俄黑海舰队旗舰“莫斯科”号已被击沉​

文章来源: 天下事 于 2022-04-14 07:00:44 - 新闻取自各大新闻媒体，新闻内容并不代表本网立场！
(被阅读 8880 次)
A- A A+

乌克兰TCH电视台网站4月14日报道，俄罗斯巡洋舰“莫斯科”号被乌克兰武装部队的“海王星”导弹击沉。

报道称，乌克兰总统顾问阿列斯托维奇在社交媒体上写道：“俄罗斯海军黑海舰队旗舰‘莫斯科’号在哪里？它已经沉没了。”

阿列斯托维奇还表示，“莫斯科”号沉没是一个重大的军事事件，这是二战以来俄罗斯舰队遭遇的最大失败，也是1945年以来世界上沉没的最大吨位的军舰。军舰的名字上更具象征意义，这是一记响亮的耳光。

随后，乌克兰武装部队南部地区指挥部发言人纳扎罗夫（Vladislav Nazarov）称，“莫斯科”号在遭到导弹攻击后，严重受损，舰体倾覆并开始下沉。

对此，俄罗斯国防部称“莫斯科”号导弹巡洋舰因火灾引发弹药爆炸，遭重创。船员已全部撤离。俄国防部表示火灾原因正在调查中。

 

[lindamy]

会不会有时间差？这是乌克兰的信息。​

==========================================================

乌总统顾问：俄黑海舰队旗舰“莫斯科”号已被击沉​

文章来源: 天下事 于 2022-04-14 07:00:44 - 新闻取自各大新闻媒体，新闻内容并不代表本网立场！
(被阅读 8880 次)
A- A A+

乌克兰TCH电视台网站4月14日报道，俄罗斯巡洋舰“莫斯科”号被乌克兰武装部队的“海王星”导弹击沉。

报道称，乌克兰总统顾问阿列斯托维奇在社交媒体上写道：“俄罗斯海军黑海舰队旗舰‘莫斯科’号在哪里？它已经沉没了。”

阿列斯托维奇还表示，“莫斯科”号沉没是一个重大的军事事件，这是二战以来俄罗斯舰队遭遇的最大失败，也是1945年以来世界上沉没的最大吨位的军舰。军舰的名字上更具象征意义，这是一记响亮的耳光。

随后，乌克兰武装部队南部地区指挥部发言人纳扎罗夫（Vladislav Nazarov）称，“莫斯科”号在遭到导弹攻击后，严重受损，舰体倾覆并开始下沉。

对此，俄罗斯国防部称“莫斯科”号导弹巡洋舰因火灾引发弹药爆炸，遭重创。船员已全部撤离。俄国防部表示火灾原因正在调查中。

五角大楼发言人一小时以前说的，还漂着，而且正在自己跨越黑海。

 

[茶马盐铁]

每次看到光荣级和现代级上面那一排排的大管子， 就会想到， 这些导弹似乎从舰艇建成之日起，就没有火力全开，饱和发射过。

光荣级是70年代下水的。 到现在为止， 估计所有的三艘光荣级，除了训练或者检测以外， 就没有过饱和攻击的经历。

 

[lindamy]

会不会有时间差？这是乌克兰的信息。​

==========================================================

乌总统顾问：俄黑海舰队旗舰“莫斯科”号已被击沉​

文章来源: 天下事 于 2022-04-14 07:00:44 - 新闻取自各大新闻媒体，新闻内容并不代表本网立场！
(被阅读 8880 次)
A- A A+

乌克兰TCH电视台网站4月14日报道，俄罗斯巡洋舰“莫斯科”号被乌克兰武装部队的“海王星”导弹击沉。

报道称，乌克兰总统顾问阿列斯托维奇在社交媒体上写道：“俄罗斯海军黑海舰队旗舰‘莫斯科’号在哪里？它已经沉没了。”

阿列斯托维奇还表示，“莫斯科”号沉没是一个重大的军事事件，这是二战以来俄罗斯舰队遭遇的最大失败，也是1945年以来世界上沉没的最大吨位的军舰。军舰的名字上更具象征意义，这是一记响亮的耳光。

随后，乌克兰武装部队南部地区指挥部发言人纳扎罗夫（Vladislav Nazarov）称，“莫斯科”号在遭到导弹攻击后，严重受损，舰体倾覆并开始下沉。

对此，俄罗斯国防部称“莫斯科”号导弹巡洋舰因火灾引发弹药爆炸，遭重创。船员已全部撤离。俄国防部表示火灾原因正在调查中。

4分钟前，美国的报道。

损失很严重，原因不明，看不到明火，还在努力灭火，正在向东移动。

这艘旗舰受到重创之后，所有船队向南侧撤离一段距离。

4 min ago

US assesses Russian warship still battling fire, but cannot confirm cause, defense official says​

From CNN's Michael Conte

The United States assesses that the Russian cruiser Moskva is still battling a fire onboard but still cannot confirm what caused the damage, according to a senior US defense official.

The official also said that the ship is moving east, and the US assumes it will be heading to the port of Sevastopol for repairs.

The US has seen that other Russian ships in the northern Black Sea near the Moskva have all subsequently moved further south, according to the official.
Ukraine claimed to have hit Moskva with a missile, while Russia said the cause of the fire is still “being established” and that there is no “open fire” on the ship.

“We cannot confirm what caused the damage to the cruiser Moskva. We do believe that she has experienced significant damage. Our assessment is that she still appears to be battling a fire onboard. But we do not know the extent of the damage. We don’t know anything about casualties to her crew. And we cannot definitely say at this point what caused that damage,” the US official said.

“We hold the ship moving to the east. Our assumption is that she’ll be heading to Sevastopol for repairs. But that’s really all we can say. The only other maritime activity worth noting is that we did note that other Black Sea ships that were operating in the vicinity of her or in the northern Black Sea have all moved further south, in the wake of the damage that the Moskva experienced. So they’ve all, all of the northern Black Sea ships have now moved out, away from the northern areas where they were operating in,” the official added.

Pentagon press secretary John Kirby echoed similar comments in an interview with CNN earlier Thursday, saying that “there was an explosion” on the Russian cruiser, but that the United States cannot assess at this point if the ship was hit by a missile.

 

[阿土仔]

4分钟前，美国的报道。

损失很严重，原因不明，看不到明火，还在努力灭火，正在向东移动。

这艘旗舰受到重创之后，所有船队向南侧撤离一段距离。

4 min ago

US assesses Russian warship still battling fire, but cannot confirm cause, defense official says​

From CNN's Michael Conte

The United States assesses that the Russian cruiser Moskva is still battling a fire onboard but still cannot confirm what caused the damage, according to a senior US defense official.

The official also said that the ship is moving east, and the US assumes it will be heading to the port of Sevastopol for repairs.

The US has seen that other Russian ships in the northern Black Sea near the Moskva have all subsequently moved further south, according to the official.
Ukraine claimed to have hit Moskva with a missile, while Russia said the cause of the fire is still “being established” and that there is no “open fire” on the ship.



“We hold the ship moving to the east. Our assumption is that she’ll be heading to Sevastopol for repairs. But that’s really all we can say. The only other maritime activity worth noting is that we did note that other Black Sea ships that were operating in the vicinity of her or in the northern Black Sea have all moved further south, in the wake of the damage that the Moskva experienced. So they’ve all, all of the northern Black Sea ships have now moved out, away from the northern areas where they were operating in,” the official added.

Pentagon press secretary John Kirby echoed similar comments in an interview with CNN earlier Thursday, saying that “there was an explosion” on the Russian cruiser, but that the United States cannot assess at this point if the ship was hit by a missile.

“海王星”的射程是280公里，如果“所有船队向南侧撤离一段距离”，基本就是“海王星”干的。

 

[茶马盐铁]

不要学轮子二极管式的逻辑。Moskva 号是否失去动力或者倾斜观众尚不清楚，但由于 RQ-4B 去拍了、由国防部研判，不管是由拖船辅助还是自行驶往 Sevastopol，美国国防部发言人说的就是这么一回事。

会不会有时间差？这是乌克兰的信息。​

==========================================================

乌总统顾问：俄黑海舰队旗舰“莫斯科”号已被击沉​

文章来源: 天下事 于 2022-04-14 07:00:44 - 新闻取自各大新闻媒体，新闻内容并不代表本网立场！
(被阅读 8880 次)
A- A A+

乌克兰TCH电视台网站4月14日报道，俄罗斯巡洋舰“莫斯科”号被乌克兰武装部队的“海王星”导弹击沉。

报道称，乌克兰总统顾问阿列斯托维奇在社交媒体上写道：“俄罗斯海军黑海舰队旗舰‘莫斯科’号在哪里？它已经沉没了。”

阿列斯托维奇还表示，“莫斯科”号沉没是一个重大的军事事件，这是二战以来俄罗斯舰队遭遇的最大失败，也是1945年以来世界上沉没的最大吨位的军舰。军舰的名字上更具象征意义，这是一记响亮的耳光。

随后，乌克兰武装部队南部地区指挥部发言人纳扎罗夫（Vladislav Nazarov）称，“莫斯科”号在遭到导弹攻击后，严重受损，舰体倾覆并开始下沉。

对此，俄罗斯国防部称“莫斯科”号导弹巡洋舰因火灾引发弹药爆炸，遭重创。船员已全部撤离。俄国防部表示火灾原因正在调查中。

既然你们一定要在沉没与没沉没之间取一个值的话。 那么结论就是：
莫斯科号没有沉没，只是从黑海舰队毕业了！

恭喜莫斯科号！

至于它毕业以后会不会志愿加入潜艇部队， 那就要看它自己的选择了。