世界上最激烈辩论、也是最难辩论的话题

美国大多数顶尖科学家不信神

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    Leading scientists still reject God

    [FONT=Arial, Verdana]Nature, Vol. 394, No. 6691, p. 313 (1998) © Macmillan Publishers Ltd.

  • Sir — The question of religious belief among US scientists has been debated since early in the century. Our latest survey finds that, among the top natural scientists, disbelief is greater than ever — almost total.
    Research on this topic began with the eminent US psychologist James H. Leuba and his landmark survey of 1914. He found that 58% of 1,000 randomly selected US scientists expressed disbelief or doubt in the existence of God, and that this figure rose to near 70% among the 400 "greater" scientists within his sample [1]. Leuba repeated his survey in somewhat different form 20 years later, and found that these percentages had increased to 67 and 85, respectively [2].
    In 1996, we repeated Leuba's 1914 survey and reported our results in Nature [3]. We found little change from 1914 for American scientists generally, with 60.7% expressing disbelief or doubt. This year, we closely imitated the second phase of Leuba's 1914 survey to gauge belief among "greater" scientists, and find the rate of belief lower than ever — a mere 7% of respondents.
    Leuba attributed the higher level of disbelief and doubt among "greater" scientists to their "superior knowledge, understanding, and experience" [3]. Similarly, Oxford University scientist Peter Atkins commented on our 1996 survey, "You clearly can be a scientist and have religious beliefs. But I don't think you can be a real scientist in the deepest sense of the word because they are such alien categories of knowledge." [4] Such comments led us to repeat the second phase of Leuba's study for an up-to-date comparison of the religious beliefs of "greater" and "lesser" scientists.
    Our chosen group of "greater" scientists were members of the National Academy of Sciences (NAS). Our survey found near universal rejection of the transcendent by NAS natural scientists. Disbelief in God and immortality among NAS biological scientists was 65.2% and 69.0%, respectively, and among NAS physical scientists it was 79.0% and 76.3%. Most of the rest were agnostics on both issues, with few believers. We found the highest percentage of belief among NAS mathematicians (14.3% in God, 15.0% in immortality). Biological scientists had the lowest rate of belief (5.5% in God, 7.1% in immortality), with physicists and astronomers slightly higher (7.5% in God, 7.5% in immortality). Overall comparison figures for the 1914, 1933 and 1998 surveys appear in Table 1.
    Table 1 Comparison of survey answers among "greater" scientists Belief in personal God191419331998Personal belief 27.7 15 7.0Personal disbelief 52.7 68 72.2Doubt or agnosticism 20.9 17 20.8Belief in human immortality 191419331998Personal belief 35.2 18 7.9Personal disbelief 25.4 53 76.7Doubt or agnosticism 43.7 29 23.3Figures are percentages.Repeating Leuba's methods presented challenges. For his general surveys, he randomly polled scientists listed in the standard reference work, American Men of Science (AMS). We used the current edition. In Leuba's day, AMS editors designated the "great scientists" among their entries, and Leuba used these to identify his "greater" scientists [1,2]. The AMS no longer makes these designations, so we chose as our "greater" scientists members of the NAS, a status that once assured designation as "great scientists" in the early AMS. Our method surely generated a more elite sample than Leuba's method, which (if the quoted comments by Leuba and Atkins are correct) may explain the extremely low level of belief among our respondents.
    For the 1914 survey, Leuba mailed his brief questionnaire to a random sample of 400 AMS "great scientists". It asked about the respondent's belief in "a God in intellectual and affective communication with humankind" and in "personal immortality". Respondents had the options of affirming belief, disbelief or agnosticism on each question [1]. Our survey contained precisely the same questions and also asked for anonymous responses.
    Leuba sent the 1914 survey to 400 "biological and physical scientists", with the latter group including mathematicians as well as physicists and astronomers [1]. Because of the relatively small size of NAS membership, we sent our survey to all 517 NAS members in those core disciplines. Leuba obtained a return rate of about 70% in 1914 and more than 75% in 1933 whereas our returns stood at about 60% for the 1996 survey and slightly over 50% from NAS members [1,2].
    As we compiled our findings, the NAS issued a booklet encouraging the teaching of evolution in public schools, an ongoing source of friction between the scientific community and some conservative Christians in the United States. The booklet assures readers, "Whether God exists or not is a question about which science is neutral"[5]. NAS president Bruce Alberts said: "There are many very outstanding members of this academy who are very religious people, people who believe in evolution, many of them biologists." Our survey suggests otherwise.


    Edward J. Larson
    Department of History, University of Georgia,
    Athens, Georgia 30602-6012, USA
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial]e-mail:edlarson@uga.edu[/FONT]

    Larry Witham
    3816 Lansdale Court, Burtonsville,
    Maryland 20866, USA



    References

    1. Leuba, J. H. The Belief in God and Immortality: A Psychological, Anthropological and Statistical Study (Sherman, French & Co., Boston, 1916).
    2. Leuba, J. H. Harper's Magazine 169, 291-300 (1934).
    3. Larson, E. J. & Witham, L. Nature 386, 435-436 (1997).
    4. Highfield, R. The Daily Telegraph 3 April, p. 4 (1997).
    5. National Academy of Sciences Teaching About Evolution and the Nature of Science (Natl Acad. Press, Washington DC, 1998).
    [ PDF format (208 K) ]
Nature © Macmillan Publishers Ltd 1998 Registered No. 785998 England
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老华侨不愧是老---华侨啊!有点自生事自生非之嫌,贴子一飘出来自己躲在后面坐山观虎斗,您真不应该这么做!您是觉得这两天这有点消停了吧?不太喜欢您的这种做法。像是在明劝暗拱,也许是我以小人之心度君腹,对不起了。:blowzy:

既然您拿笤帚把我从山洞里轰出来了,我就说几句吧。 ;/

正因为不主张辩论宗教信仰(您恐怕也找不到我几个辩论宗教信仰的贴子),我才发了贴子,由它去。
关于宗教信仰的辩论,除了激烈而无效以外,老华侨也跳出争论的尘界(并争取跳出“轮回”)了 :-)

总的来说,人类信仰宗教的人在减少,而且信仰的狂热程度在降低。
几年前曾经在《渥太华公民报》(Ottawa Citizen)上看过一个调查 -- 加拿大信教的人数比例变迁。怎样才能辨认一个人是不是真的信教呢?这很难有一个精确的办法。因为有的人声称信教,但不一定真信;而真信的人,也不一定声称。该调查是看一个人能否坚持一直去教堂参加礼拜。调查结果是:
• 二战结束时,加拿大有50%的人坚持去教堂;
• 而现在,加拿大只有25%的人坚持去教堂。

再看美国,“信仰虔诚”是“美国精神”的三大精神之一。现在,美国仍然是基督教信仰最虔诚的国家之一,但跟“五月花号”时候相比,不论在比例上、还是在程度上,都大大降低了。

这个变化,得益于人类文明的进步,尤其是科学技术的进步,特别是二战以后的巨大变化。

您可以想一想,仅仅是半个世纪前的马丁.路德.金时代。那个时候,黑人必须在公交车上给白人让座;黑人不能上白人的厕所!尽管现在还有种族歧视,但现在有了多么大的变化呀! 人类文明有了巨大的进步!

现在的年轻人更加自由,对自然和世界的认识,也比前人有了大大提高。

当然,不排除局部国家和地区的信教人数的增加。中国就是典型。
由于共产主义理想在中国的松绑,再加上中国人本来就没有特别强烈的信仰,随着国门的打开,各路宗教信仰(尤其是“代表着”西方文明的基督教)就象潮水一般涌来,很容易填充我们留下的巨大空间。

再把眼光放到整个人类历史的长河上去 --
在人类最远古的时期(或叫“蒙昧”的时期),人们是没有并没有任何“灵魂”或“来世”的概念。考古也显示,那时候的人并没有着意安葬死去的同类。

很容易想象,当不知道梦是什么的时候,远古的人们对梦见死去的亲人的理解 – 明明是死去了,我为什么又能见到,甚至还能对话呢? 显然是有两个世界;人应该是有灵魂的,而且灵魂和肉体是可以分开的。于是,人们开始安葬死去的同类(约100万年前)。例如,在德国发现的那一时期的人类有了安葬,并且都是一顺地头朝东,而脚冲西。 ([注: 按《圣经》推算,从上帝造人到现在,人类历史约7千年到1万年。“主内兄弟”的解释是:《圣经》里指的是现代人。看来,远古人,是上帝造的试验品])
继而,原始宗教也随之产生了。最早是对图腾的崇拜,然后是对氏族祖先的崇拜,再然后是对超脱于人和物的“神”的崇拜。这一时期,几乎人人信奉神灵。
三大宗教、及其诸多分支的出现,则把宗教推进到成熟的形式。

但当人类文明再进一步发展的时候,人类就有理由对宗教产生怀疑了。 自然,不信的人就越来越多。二战以后的60多年里,人类在科学、技术、社会文化的巨大变化,使得宗教信仰开始受到前所未有的动摇。再过一千年,会怎样? 还会有象现在那样众多的人,相信耶稣的种种神迹吗?

再回过头来看,--
我们现在对宗教信仰辩论得不可开交,不是很可笑吗?
当然,由于人们对自然的认识没有穷尽,永远都有未知的领域,宗教就永远有存在的空间。但由于越来越多的、普通人所涉及的普通问题得到解决,人们就越不倾向于把未知领域归于神。

我敢再次打赌 ---
一千年后,老华侨见到“Jack1962”的时候,他正拿着笤帚追打“CHRIS88”呢,还边追边喊:“你这个该死该活的老辩童,当年非要拉我去教会。我好不容易在教会里浸了八百年信了教,现在教会又都全解散了。现在你、我都无家可归了!你就是跑到老华侨的山洞里,我也要 … 跟你一块去!”
 
我没有要和你在这麽明显的问题上辩论啊?

那你是否愿意对楼主在下面的帖子里,关于现在信教的人数在减少的明显事实争辩一下呢?

我估计你指的’“明显”,是从大陆来的,99%的无神论者,现在信教的人数有所上升这个“明显”的事实。
 
既然您拿笤帚把我从山洞里轰出来了,我就说几句吧。 ;/

正因为不主张辩论宗教信仰(您恐怕也找不到我几个辩论宗教信仰的贴子),我才发了贴子,由它去。


就因为我找不到您的辩论宗教信仰的贴子,我才那样说的呢?您就由它去吧!:p
 
To believe something or being religious is not wrong. if you feel happy, just do it. People here have all the freedom to do what they want. Religion does help people in some ways if the believers are devoted. It is really up to you self.

One thing I want to mention is that there is a joke in Northamerica about religion: you make a church if you want to be rich. Although it is a joke, it may be true for many churches. The reason is that believers have to donate money to the churches after they are in. The priests have salaries which are the money donated by the believers. And the priests do not pay tax for the church income. That's why making churches is a big business. You may be surprised that Vatican is the richest nation in the world. Note that if you are in, normally it is hard to get out. The result is that you will pay a lot of money for what you get. There is no such thing like free lunch. If the poeple in churches tell you that everyhing is free, it is definitely a big lie. Pay attention to how the people donate if you go to a church. Most money goes to the priests.
The priests are always nice to you not only because they are so glad to guide you closer to God. Many new immigrants are vulnerable after they come here because of known reasons. They are good targets for churches.

Another thing: there are so many types of churches and sects(Angelic, Evangelic, Catholic, Orthodox, Mormon, Jehovah's witness, Scicology, etc.). Which one is good for you? All of them will say it is good for you. But maybe none of them. Think a lot and get known with them well before you join any churches.
 
哈哈,可见飞兄不知辩论之真谛也。
辩论不外乎促进彼此间之文化交流,而非辩论本身之胜负,然否?辩论必须保持良好之辩德,就事论事,不作人身攻击,此非辩论之真谛耶?CHRIS兄何故如此片面说我「不知辩论之真谛」?
 
不信基督的人看信基督的人:好傻,好蠢。
信基督的人看不信基督的人:可怜,可悲。
两个不同的世界。
有意思,我想同样的话也实用于佛教,伊斯兰,印度教,甚至轮子教.
如果非要我选一种教来信的话,我会选佛教啦.
因为佛教是最平和的一种教了 (藏传佛教除外).
另外基督教和伊斯兰也是这世界上最爱开打的教了.只不过一个以上帝的名义,一个以阿拉的名义罢.
不过从BIBLE 上看, 这 基督, 犹太教和伊斯兰的主先都是亚伯拉汗的子孙哦. 但伊斯兰教的那个是一个使女的儿子, 生下来就被大奶赶出家门了. 所以现在伊斯兰哥门火气比较大也是有原因的.童年阴影, 换谁长大了都会有报复社会的念头不是?
不好意思,看你们聊的热闹,也来胡砍两句.
 
辩论不外乎促进彼此间之文化交流,而非辩论本身之胜负,然否?辩论必须保持良好之辩德,就事论事,不作人身攻击,此非辩论之真谛耶?

呵呵,同意同意。
 
老华侨不愧是老---华侨啊!有点自生事自生非之嫌,贴子一飘出来自己躲在后面坐山观虎斗,您真不应该这么做!您是觉得这两天这有点消停了吧?不太喜欢您的这种做法。像是在明劝暗拱,也许是我以小人之心度君腹,对不起了。:blowzy:
老华侨太狡猾:p!
挑起了关于日本车和美国车的争论,又挑起了信教与不信教的争论.车的事情还可以有些客观的依据,还可以摆事实,讲道理,虽然有时道理也讲不清.但是宗教的事情就更难讲清了,很难找到客观依据.
估计参加争论的男士居多.(这是我的主观判断,没有依据,不争论)
建议大家不要争了.小平同志的"不争论",实在高明.
因为这不是能辩论清楚的课题.
中计了!:o:o:o
 
基督教、天主教,本不是中国文化的一部分。中国人去信仰基督教、天主教,让人感觉如同中国人染金发,不伦不类。
 
基督教、天主教,本不是中国文化的一部分。中国人去信仰基督教、天主教,让人感觉如同中国人染金发,不伦不类。

那中国人该信啥呢? 本土好象只有道教
 
基督教、天主教,本不是中国文化的一部分。中国人去信仰基督教、天主教,让人感觉如同中国人染金发,不伦不类。

「染金发」!有意思!好奇特的比喻!:cool::cool::cool::cool::cool:
 
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