经历过89风波的举手。。。
- 主题发起人 mike
- 开始时间
Only two possibilities: 糊涂 or 别有用心?
Please don't use that big bat '别有用心'. I am just a small civilian, no specil 用心
Reeve, I was a fouth year university student in 1989. For 64, I don't think I know less or experience less than you .
I read some of you political opinions in this BBS. I don't agree with most of your opinions because I think some of them are too "LEFT". However, that's your opinions and I wouldn't try to convince you to change your mind.
I'v been here for years and feel that the west democracy system is much better than nowadays Chinese system (easpecially the legal system). No system is perfect in the world. But the democracy is the least bad system. Without test, how do you know China can't adopt a similar system. Keeping steady can't be a execuse of refuing reform, include political reform.
To Reeve,
I am also a witness to 6.4, but I was in Xi'an at the time. To speak the truth, some of the guys in that movement are bad guys in terms of taking advantage of other people's good intention. But I still have to argue that 6.4 movement is and will be a milestone in China's history. Whenever I recall those days, I cannot help thinking of Abraham Lincon's words, "You can fool all people some time, some people all the time but never all people all the time". Let's wait and see ! Also remind you, that movement ORIGINALLY came out of people's hatred toward corruption. We can have different views for democracy staff. But I still believe western countries have more advanced modern civilizations/knowledge in social socience, which is reflected in the political/legal system.
I am also a witness to 6.4, but I was in Xi'an at the time. To speak the truth, some of the guys in that movement are bad guys in terms of taking advantage of other people's good intention. But I still have to argue that 6.4 movement is and will be a milestone in China's history. Whenever I recall those days, I cannot help thinking of Abraham Lincon's words, "You can fool all people some time, some people all the time but never all people all the time". Let's wait and see ! Also remind you, that movement ORIGINALLY came out of people's hatred toward corruption. We can have different views for democracy staff. But I still believe western countries have more advanced modern civilizations/knowledge in social socience, which is reflected in the political/legal system.
Reeve:
That's OK!
I agree with " 随着经济改 革进行的政治改革和渐进式的民主才胜算较大。" I only think we shouldn't forget 64 easily and should learn something from the tradegy. I would never agree that killing students and crushing democracy is the right choice , no matter for what execuse.
Good night!
That's OK!
I agree with " 随着经济改 革进行的政治改革和渐进式的民主才胜算较大。" I only think we shouldn't forget 64 easily and should learn something from the tradegy. I would never agree that killing students and crushing democracy is the right choice , no matter for what execuse.
Good night!
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- 2002-01-16
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其实都是一样的，打个比方，两家人分别养两只猪，一家人给猪吃剩饭，另一家人给猪吃高级合成饲料，结果最后还是都被送到屠宰场。中国的掌权者都是农民出身，封建意识极强，所以他们做的事情都是很低级，愚蠢，很容易被人看穿，或者说中国根本就没有政治，就象诸侯抢地盘一样，明火执仗。偶尔能出一个携天子以令诸侯的人。不象这里，那些人都是真正的政客，政客的高明之处就在于，让你上当受骗还感恩激德，就象那只吃高级饲料的猪结果也是去了屠宰场。西方社会的黑暗，不象中国那样明显，但绝对比中国还黑。别以为在这里就真以为顾客就是上帝，那是人家盯着你口袋里的钱，不和你一般见识，等人家认为你没有利用价值了，一脚把你踹一边去了。你有胆子到walmart去说理，但你有胆子去珠城闹事吗？我一直认为，共产主义事不能实现的，它太完美，而人类是永远不能完美的。但社会主义是一个很好的社会形态，绝对比资本主义好。只可惜还没哪个国家实现了社会主义。苏联，中国，朝鲜都不是，那只是封建社会换了个脸谱。
一己之见，请赐教。
一己之见，请赐教。
People nowadays are flattering China for her rapid growth, I have no objection to this at all. But I am always considering the reason: What is the price that stands behind the high growth? The only answer I can think of is:
1. In a greater extend, we are taking advantage of ourself and our children/grandchildren's environment. This is mostly reflected in the deterioration of the environment, the sand storm in Beijing, the grand flood in 92 and too many to list. I still remember when I was a kid, TaiHu (lake Tai) was so beautiful, you can look directly into the bottom, and the river in front of my home was full of fishes/crabs and in summer time, people swimmed there a lot. But 20 years later, what a hell you can see. I feel too sad to comment here... my question here if we restore our environment to that of 70's, how much shall we pay ? Of course, we won't pay but our decendants WILL !
2. Social moral / value system is badly detroyed, which can lead to weakened competitive capability in long term. I am always wondering whehter nowadays we can reach the achivement as great as that of the "two bombs, one satalite".
As for 6.4 movement, I think the government at least has some better understanding of the proverb, "Water can carry boat, while it can also turn over the boat". It is not a bad lesson at any point of view. I think everyone will agree a strong motherland will make us proud from the bottom of heart (esp. in another country)
1. In a greater extend, we are taking advantage of ourself and our children/grandchildren's environment. This is mostly reflected in the deterioration of the environment, the sand storm in Beijing, the grand flood in 92 and too many to list. I still remember when I was a kid, TaiHu (lake Tai) was so beautiful, you can look directly into the bottom, and the river in front of my home was full of fishes/crabs and in summer time, people swimmed there a lot. But 20 years later, what a hell you can see. I feel too sad to comment here... my question here if we restore our environment to that of 70's, how much shall we pay ? Of course, we won't pay but our decendants WILL !
2. Social moral / value system is badly detroyed, which can lead to weakened competitive capability in long term. I am always wondering whehter nowadays we can reach the achivement as great as that of the "two bombs, one satalite".
As for 6.4 movement, I think the government at least has some better understanding of the proverb, "Water can carry boat, while it can also turn over the boat". It is not a bad lesson at any point of view. I think everyone will agree a strong motherland will make us proud from the bottom of heart (esp. in another country)
