happy 2016
高级会员
- 注册
- 2016-01-12
- 消息
- 1,005
- 荣誉分数
- 354
- 声望点数
- 93
川普此人没有担当， 此事无关左右， 也跟选举作弊与否没有关系
- 主题发起人 urus
- 开始时间
- 注册
- 2003-09-30
- 消息
- 79,564
- 荣誉分数
- 23,484
- 声望点数
- 1,373
- 注册
- 2005-11-23
- 消息
- 30,006
- 荣誉分数
- 7,409
- 声望点数
- 373
CNN and Foxnews 的不同报道：
Defiant Trump denounces violence but takes no responsibility for inciting deadly riot
Defiant Trump denounces violence but takes no responsibility for inciting deadly riot
A defiant President Donald Trump insisted Tuesday his speech inciting the riot at the US Capitol was "totally appropriate" while at the same time calling for "no violence" in his first public remarks to reporters after the insurrection last week.
Trump acknowledged he bears some blame for Capitol riot in conversation with McCarthy: sources
McCarthy relayed president's sentiment on call with House Republicans, sources say
Trump acknowledged he bears some blame for Capitol riot in conversation with McCarthy: sources
President Trump acknowledged that he bears some blame for the Capitol riot last week during a conversation with House Republican Leader Kevin McCarthy, a source familiar told Fox News.
- 注册
- 2007-01-19
- 消息
- 29,085
- 荣誉分数
- 9,995
- 声望点数
- 373
床铺让支持者发出自己的声音就是冲击国会呀？那陪裸洗给老黑下跪一定是求他们去砸白宫！
- 注册
- 2003-09-30
- 消息
- 79,564
- 荣誉分数
- 23,484
- 声望点数
- 1,373
- 注册
- 2003-11-24
- 消息
- 36,389
- 荣誉分数
- 9,578
- 声望点数
- 373
你想多了。 我并没有说川普需要对此负责。 他是否需要负法律责任， 这个是要看法律，以及事后的事实披露。 这个根本不在我的视线内。你说的是乔峰，不是政治人物。否则任何一个支持者捅的漏子都由他负责，他这辈子就负责坐牢了！
这么说吧， 哪怕这次是拜登支持者，在拜登的呼吁下，甚至带领下， 闯国会， 最后引起死难。 那么川普也应该公开悼念他们。 因为你是国家领袖， 你是总统， 你不是一小撮人的， 不是你们家的总统， 你是全美国的总统。 你懂不懂？
法律责任是法律责任， 我们先放在一边。 本质上， 无论是川普支持者， 还是拜登支持者， 都不是什么十恶不赦的罪人。 他们本质上还是为了国家好， 为了自己所认为的正义也罢， 理想也罢， 才走出去， 做出自己的选择。
说到底， 这是美国版的“人民内部矛盾”。 不是什么敌我矛盾。 川普作为总统， 理应对死难者公开哀悼。 更不要说， 现实中， 这些人是他的支持者， 听了他的煽动， 才来到国会， 死于DC， 甚至于还极有可能死得非常不名誉。 他可能不需要负法律责任， 但是他在道义上， 应该负责。
- 注册
- 2003-04-13
- 消息
- 237,988
- 荣誉分数
- 37,464
- 声望点数
- 1,393
This is what Trump told supporters before many stormed Capitol Hill
Many who participated in the chaos as the U.S. Capitol building went under attack on Wednesday came straight from a rally held by President Donald Trump.
Timeline: What Trump said before Jan. 6 Capitol riot
In the weeks leading up to the Jan. 6 riot at the Capitol, President Donald Trump repeatedly said he wanted his supporte
www.politifact.com
- 注册
- 2003-04-13
- 消息
- 237,988
- 荣誉分数
- 37,464
- 声望点数
- 1,393
What Trump said before Jan. 6
For months before Election Day, Trump repeatedly told his supporters falsehoods about voting, including that Democrats had "rigged" the election. Trump ramped up the rhetoric after he lost the election, filing court challenges in battleground states trying to get judges to reverse the outcome. After he racked up defeats in court, Trump’s tactics turned toward ordering senators to "fight" for him.
".@senatemajldr and Republican Senators have to get tougher, or you won’t have a Republican Party anymore. We won the Presidential Election, by a lot. FIGHT FOR IT. Don’t let them take it away!" he tweeted Dec. 18.
In December, Trump also issued a battle cry to his supporters broadly, encouraging them to gather on his behalf Jan. 6.
Dec. 12: On the day of pro-Trump rallies in Washington, D.C., Trump tweeted "Wow! Thousands of people forming in Washington (D.C.) for Stop the Steal. Didn’t know about this, but I’ll be seeing them! #MAGA."
Dec. 12: "WE HAVE JUST BEGUN TO FIGHT!!!" Trump said in another tweet.
Dec. 19: Trump tweeted his praise for a report by his adviser Peter Navarro alleging election fraud: "A great report by Peter. Statistically impossible to have lost the 2020 Election. Big protest in D.C. on January 6th. Be there, will be wild!"
Dec. 26: Trump tweeted: "The ‘Justice’ Department and the FBI have done nothing about the 2020 Presidential Election Voter Fraud, the biggest SCAM in our nation’s history, despite overwhelming evidence. They should be ashamed. History will remember. Never give up. See everyone in D.C. on January 6th."
Dec. 27: "See you in Washington, DC, on January 6th. Don’t miss it. Information to follow!" Trump tweeted.
Jan. 1: "The BIG Protest Rally in Washington, D.C., will take place at 11.00 A.M. on January 6th. Locational details to follow. StopTheSteal!" Trump tweeted.
Jan. 1: "January 6th. See you in D.C." Trump tweeted.
Jan. 3: Trump retweeted @JenLawrence21, an organizer of a March for Trump bus tour: "Now we will bring it to DC on Jan 6 and PROUDLY stand beside you!"
Jan. 3: Trump retweeted Amy Kremer, another promoter of the march who said, "We are excited to announce the site of our January 6th event will be The Ellipse in the President’s Park, just steps from the White House!"
Jan. 3: Trump retweeted @CodeMonkeyZ: "If you are planning to attend peaceful protests in DC on the 6th, i recommend wearing a body camera. The more video angles of that day the better."
Jan. 4: At a rally in Georgia the day before the Senate runoffs, Trump repeated his grievances about his own election. He spoke about a continued fight, both for himself and the Senate.
"If the liberal Democrats take the Senate and the White House — and they’re not taking this White House — we’re going to fight like hell, I’ll tell you right now," Trump said.
"We’re going to take it back," Trump said.
What Trump said before the riot
Trump’s final direction to supporters came during his "Save America" rally around noon Jan. 6, when he repeated his Pants on Fire claim that he won.
"Our country has had enough," Trump told his supporters. "We will not take it anymore and that’s what this is all about. To use a favorite term that all of you people really came up with, we will stop the steal."
The crowd later chanted: "Fight for Trump! Fight for Trump! Fight for Trump!" Trump thanked them.
Trump praised the crowd for traveling from across the nation and for "the extraordinary love."
"We’re gathered together in the heart of our nation’s capital for one very, very basic and simple reason: to save our democracy," Trump said.
Trump repeatedly said there was a need to "fight." After he bashed "weak" Republicans and Biden, he said: "Unbelievable, what we have to go through, what we have to go through and you have to get your people to fight. If they don’t fight, we have to primary the hell out of the ones that don’t fight. You primary them. We’re going to let you know who they are, I can already tell you, frankly."
He continued with the fighting metaphors: "Republicans are constantly fighting like a boxer with his hands tied behind his back. It’s like a boxer, and we want to be so nice. We want to be so respectful of everybody, including bad people. We’re going to have to fight much harder, and Mike Pence is going to have to come through for us. And if he doesn’t, that will be a sad day for our country because you’re sworn to uphold our constitution. Now it is up to Congress to confront this egregious assault on our democracy."
Trump then invited the crowd to go to the Capitol.
"And after this, we’re going to walk down, and I’ll be there with you. We’re going to walk down. We’re going to walk down any one you want, but I think right here. We’re going to walk down to the Capitol, and we’re going to cheer on our brave senators, and congressmen and women. We’re probably not going to be cheering so much for some of them, because you’ll never take back our country with weakness. You have to show strength, and you have to be strong."
Trump used the word "peacefully" once at his rally:
"We have come to demand that Congress do the right thing and only count the electors who have been lawfully slated, lawfully slated. I know that everyone here will soon be marching over to the Capitol building to peacefully and patriotically make your voices heard. Today we will see whether Republicans stand strong for integrity of our elections, but whether or not they stand strong for our country, our country. Our country has been under siege for a long time, far longer than this four-year period."
For months before Election Day, Trump repeatedly told his supporters falsehoods about voting, including that Democrats had "rigged" the election. Trump ramped up the rhetoric after he lost the election, filing court challenges in battleground states trying to get judges to reverse the outcome. After he racked up defeats in court, Trump’s tactics turned toward ordering senators to "fight" for him.
".@senatemajldr and Republican Senators have to get tougher, or you won’t have a Republican Party anymore. We won the Presidential Election, by a lot. FIGHT FOR IT. Don’t let them take it away!" he tweeted Dec. 18.
In December, Trump also issued a battle cry to his supporters broadly, encouraging them to gather on his behalf Jan. 6.
Dec. 12: On the day of pro-Trump rallies in Washington, D.C., Trump tweeted "Wow! Thousands of people forming in Washington (D.C.) for Stop the Steal. Didn’t know about this, but I’ll be seeing them! #MAGA."
Dec. 12: "WE HAVE JUST BEGUN TO FIGHT!!!" Trump said in another tweet.
Dec. 19: Trump tweeted his praise for a report by his adviser Peter Navarro alleging election fraud: "A great report by Peter. Statistically impossible to have lost the 2020 Election. Big protest in D.C. on January 6th. Be there, will be wild!"
Dec. 26: Trump tweeted: "The ‘Justice’ Department and the FBI have done nothing about the 2020 Presidential Election Voter Fraud, the biggest SCAM in our nation’s history, despite overwhelming evidence. They should be ashamed. History will remember. Never give up. See everyone in D.C. on January 6th."
Dec. 27: "See you in Washington, DC, on January 6th. Don’t miss it. Information to follow!" Trump tweeted.
Jan. 1: "The BIG Protest Rally in Washington, D.C., will take place at 11.00 A.M. on January 6th. Locational details to follow. StopTheSteal!" Trump tweeted.
Jan. 1: "January 6th. See you in D.C." Trump tweeted.
Jan. 3: Trump retweeted @JenLawrence21, an organizer of a March for Trump bus tour: "Now we will bring it to DC on Jan 6 and PROUDLY stand beside you!"
Jan. 3: Trump retweeted Amy Kremer, another promoter of the march who said, "We are excited to announce the site of our January 6th event will be The Ellipse in the President’s Park, just steps from the White House!"
Jan. 3: Trump retweeted @CodeMonkeyZ: "If you are planning to attend peaceful protests in DC on the 6th, i recommend wearing a body camera. The more video angles of that day the better."
Jan. 4: At a rally in Georgia the day before the Senate runoffs, Trump repeated his grievances about his own election. He spoke about a continued fight, both for himself and the Senate.
"If the liberal Democrats take the Senate and the White House — and they’re not taking this White House — we’re going to fight like hell, I’ll tell you right now," Trump said.
"We’re going to take it back," Trump said.
What Trump said before the riot
Trump’s final direction to supporters came during his "Save America" rally around noon Jan. 6, when he repeated his Pants on Fire claim that he won.
"Our country has had enough," Trump told his supporters. "We will not take it anymore and that’s what this is all about. To use a favorite term that all of you people really came up with, we will stop the steal."
The crowd later chanted: "Fight for Trump! Fight for Trump! Fight for Trump!" Trump thanked them.
Trump praised the crowd for traveling from across the nation and for "the extraordinary love."
"We’re gathered together in the heart of our nation’s capital for one very, very basic and simple reason: to save our democracy," Trump said.
Trump repeatedly said there was a need to "fight." After he bashed "weak" Republicans and Biden, he said: "Unbelievable, what we have to go through, what we have to go through and you have to get your people to fight. If they don’t fight, we have to primary the hell out of the ones that don’t fight. You primary them. We’re going to let you know who they are, I can already tell you, frankly."
He continued with the fighting metaphors: "Republicans are constantly fighting like a boxer with his hands tied behind his back. It’s like a boxer, and we want to be so nice. We want to be so respectful of everybody, including bad people. We’re going to have to fight much harder, and Mike Pence is going to have to come through for us. And if he doesn’t, that will be a sad day for our country because you’re sworn to uphold our constitution. Now it is up to Congress to confront this egregious assault on our democracy."
Trump then invited the crowd to go to the Capitol.
"And after this, we’re going to walk down, and I’ll be there with you. We’re going to walk down. We’re going to walk down any one you want, but I think right here. We’re going to walk down to the Capitol, and we’re going to cheer on our brave senators, and congressmen and women. We’re probably not going to be cheering so much for some of them, because you’ll never take back our country with weakness. You have to show strength, and you have to be strong."
Trump used the word "peacefully" once at his rally:
"We have come to demand that Congress do the right thing and only count the electors who have been lawfully slated, lawfully slated. I know that everyone here will soon be marching over to the Capitol building to peacefully and patriotically make your voices heard. Today we will see whether Republicans stand strong for integrity of our elections, but whether or not they stand strong for our country, our country. Our country has been under siege for a long time, far longer than this four-year period."
最后编辑:
- 注册
- 2005-11-23
- 消息
- 30,006
- 荣誉分数
- 7,409
- 声望点数
- 373
封号是没有办法的办法
来源: 奔驰野马 于 2021-01-11 18:04:27我不同意你的意见但是维护你说话的权利，确实是民主的基本概念。但是呢，要看这最后说出来的是什么话。总不能你开个推特号，见天儿号召大家去抢银行贩卖儿童拐卖妇女，我还得维护你这教唆犯罪的权利吧。
宪法第一修正案赋予了美国公民言论自由的权利，但这个自由不是绝对的，比如说下面的“言论”，宪法的解释就不包括或者只赋予有限的保护：
Categories of speech that are given lesser or no protection by the First Amendment (and therefore may be restricted) include obscenity, fraud, child pornography, speech integral to illegal conduct, speech that incites imminent lawless action, speech that violates intellectual property law, true threats, and commercial speech such as advertising.
具体说到川大爷1/6日的言论，比如 “march to the Capitol", "fight harder" , "show strength" 和彭斯不给力这样的话，到底没有incited insurrection呢？这个需要通过结果来判定。暴民啸聚DC确实是川大爷召集来的，冲击国会也确实发生在川大爷的煽动性言论之后，而且真有暴民准备进去找到彭斯然后吊死。如果你是陪审团的一员，会不会也是倾向于判川大爷有罪呢？
最后说说推特和脸书的性质问题。他们实际上是行使了媒体的功能，不同的是他们自己不是内容的发布者，而是允许自媒体运用这些平台施行“言论自由”。 但是呢，每个自媒体在发布内容之前，同平台都有相关的用户协议，也就是合同，规定了什么样的内容不能发布，违反合同发布的后果，以及谁具有解释合同的权利。所以，从合同法的角度看，封号是基本的契约精神的体现，找不出啥毛病。Amazon和Google也是同理。
川大爷目前只是被剥夺了在这些限定的平台发表言论的权利，但并不等同与他的言论自由被剥夺。比如说，他可以通过狐狸台，NewsMax和白宫的官方渠道发表言论，明天还有公开的演讲。但是呢，如果他的言论继续挑动更多的暴乱发生，那等待他的就只有笆篱子了。
Error 404 (Not Found)!
bbs.wenxuecity.com
- 注册
- 2005-11-23
- 消息
- 30,006
- 荣誉分数
- 7,409
- 声望点数
- 373
言论自由
来源: xiangbuming 于 2021-01-11 03:06:09
如果我发推，几月几号到某地集合，然后抢银行。
我肯定没这个自由。不是被删，就是被抓。
如果推文是这样的，某月某日，到某地集合，咱们到某银行干件大事。
结果那天银行真的被集合的人抢了。
推特肯定报警，秒删，封账号。
总统干的就是类似的事。
不断发推，号召川粉一月六号去华盛顿，get wild.一月六号早晨还演讲，你们去国会，FIGHT。
本来自己要一起去，结果没去。
响应号召的川粉做了什么，大家都知道，把国会砸了。
难道推特了解到推文和砸国会的联系，封号不是自然合理的选择？
推特的所作所为，是司法的一部分，和政治无关。任何导致打砸抢，人命的推文，都应该封。
川粉不理解，保护所谓总统的言论自由本身是悖论。总统不是你和我，他的信息渠道永远是畅通的。
他有新闻团队，发言人。有白宫官方网页。可以随时开记者会。有狐狸台这种电视台充当宣传部。
凭什么没了一个推特，脸书的账号，就没了言论自由？
最根本的原因是，推特没有像官方的白宫网页一样，规范一个人的人品。
就是川粉口中的可爱的真性情。
对川普本人来说，就是撒泼。
推特不过是限制了一个泼皮撒泼的权利。
大哭，这个国家完了，连总统的言论自由都没有了的人，应该反问一下，一个民主的国家，几乎所有的媒体都被总统骂为假新闻的时候，这个国家的民主运作还会是正常的吗？
请你们回顾这这四年，你们不看主流媒体，热衷转来转去的小道消息，有多少是真的？不妨自己梳理一下，给个百分比。
如果川普不是总统，而是普通公民，一月六号之后，早就进监狱了。那现在谈论的，根本不是言论自由的问题。
这么假设吧，如果拜登选举输了，做了川普同样的事，推特，演讲，号召支持者去国会，然后支持者把国会砸了。
拜登当天就得进局子。
言论自由 - xiangbuming发表于 时事述评 - 论坛 | 文学城
bbs.wenxuecity.com
- 注册
- 2003-09-30
- 消息
- 79,564
- 荣誉分数
- 23,484
- 声望点数
- 1,373
- 注册
- 2003-09-30
- 消息
- 79,564
- 荣誉分数
- 23,484
- 声望点数
- 1,373
没有川粉硬，都结束俩月了，还硬着呢。
