关于西藏动乱的几个疑点

[bigtwo]

1． 北京政府宣传的是达赖“有组织有预谋”地打砸抢。凡是有头脑的人都想问一问：达赖有这么低智商，组织藏人打砸抢烧，然后授人以柄吗？
2． 北京政府只宣传3月14日藏人打砸抢烧，却对3月10日到13日发生的事情含糊其辞。3月10日到13日到底发生了什么？是不是外界报道的和平游行，静坐和绝食？
3． 为什么新闻封锁，驱逐记者？如果是藏人打砸抢烧，那应该欢迎记者拍摄，让暴行暴光于天下。连伊拉克枪林弹雨，各国记者都不怕，水均益也亲临前线，西藏骚乱 为什么不能允许记者作为历史的见证？驱逐记者，让全世界记者和全世界人民都相信新华社的报道，太难了。尤其是新华社在当年的64，和近年的北京的萨斯风波 都有撒谎行为。
4． 北京政府为什么不允许联合国独立调查团介入调查。如果新闻封锁驱逐记者是一个失误，那么联合国独立调查团是一个补救措施，是一个机会让“藏人打砸抢烧”暴行暴光于天下。
5． 北京政府报道有180名藏人自首。如果是达赖“有组织有预谋”地打砸抢，那么公安机关肯定能从这180名藏人那里得到线索和证据啊。为什么目前还未公布线索和证据？
6． 藏人打砸抢烧的整个过程里，为什么没有人拨打911，警察去哪里了？为什么新华社记者从容拍摄，却不拨打911？
7． 北京政府在事件发生后否认开枪（后来承认有开枪），这时候已经有藏人中枪和死亡的照片出现在网上。这些照片是真实的，还是伪造的，还是藏人杀死同胞嫁祸北京政府？
8． 新闻报道中央民族大学等高校的藏人学生有静坐等抗议活动。按理说，这些藏人学生是了解事情真相的，因为他们的父母亲人还在西藏，他们可以清楚地了解那里发生了什么。如果是“藏人打砸抢烧”，他们应该自知理亏，为什么这些高校的藏人学生还静坐抗议？
9． 北京政府的新闻指责西藏藏独势力有武装，那为什么电视画面和图片，只有徒手搏斗，和使用刀具，为什么没有枪支？
10． 温家宝在新闻发布会上说有确凿的证据是达赖“有组织有预谋”地打砸抢，达赖随后回应请温家宝公布证据，北京政府为什么不公布证据，让全世界人认清“达赖的本质”？
11． 北京政府为什么封锁海外站点，例如youtube等。如果封锁网络，国内老百姓就只能看到新华社的报道，为什么不能让国内老百姓得到全面的报道？是因为国内老百姓素质太低，没有鉴别能力吗？
12． 到底是谁先使用暴力？北京政府为什么回避这个问题？
13． 3月10日到3月13日到底是不是和平示威？北京政府只报道了3月14日的打砸抢烧，言外之意就是之前没有发生骚乱和人员伤亡。如果是和平示威，为什么要逮捕大量游行的藏民？
14． 藏民为什么那么恨汉人？为什么恨汉人却在同一天爆发？是不是因为被政府镇压而激发了对汉人的仇恨呢？俗话说，没有无缘无故的爱，也没有无缘无故的恨。
15． 藏人有多少宗教自由和人权？其实国际社会关注的是藏人的人权和宗教自由，而不是西藏独立问题。那么藏人究竟有多少宗教自由和人权？北京政府只报道国家投资在西藏修路，采矿，改善藏民生活等，对宗教自由和基本人权这个藏民最关注的问题却语焉不详。
16． 西藏独立的可能性有多大？其实西藏独立的可能性非常小，连达赖都反对独立，争取自治，因为达赖也意识到西藏的独立的可能性非常小，几乎不可能。国际社会也 都承认西藏是中国的一部分。而按照北京政府的宣传，仿佛西藏马上就要独立了，必须立刻镇压。好象是夸大了西藏独立的可能性，来激怒国内的民众，为政府的镇 压寻找借口。藏民既没有军队，也没有武装，连枪支都没有，所以西藏独立的可能性有多大？是不是被政府夸大了？而被日本占领的钓鱼岛，俄罗斯占领的140万 平方公里，应该是更急迫的问题，因为至少西藏至少目前还被中国政府控制着。

 

[ccc]

Answers will be given as reporters/journalists are now in Tibet.

 

[lifeisfun]

So are you suggesting that it is Beijing government starting this and letting people boycott the Olympic? Even more stupid.

It may not be started by Dalai's direct followers, but he know this for sure and did not stop this. He would like to see how far this could go, if it goes out of his control, he would come out and say it is not his idea and he did do so. On the other side, no matter what the consequence is, he already gained a lot attention and sympathy from the western world in the last two weeks, maybe more than what he got in the last 50 years.

 

[wuwei]

咳,做人哦,真不能太 CNN 了!

 

[lifeisfun]

Let me comment on your claims

1． 北京政府宣传的是达赖“有组织有预谋”地打砸抢。凡是有头脑的人都想问一问：达赖有这么低智商，组织藏人打砸抢烧，然后授人以柄吗？

So you assume then it is the Beijing govenment starting this and let people boycott the Olympic, more stupid logic.

2． 北京政府只宣传3月14日藏人打砸抢烧，却对3月10日到13日发生的事情含糊其辞。3月10日到13日到底发生了什么？是不是外界报道的和平游行，静坐和绝食？

Even if so, so what, at least we didn't hear any riot and death for those days if there was crakcdown. What's the problem with crackdown on protest, we saw it everyday here in western world. do you have excuse to go violence if you got crackdown? Even in the western world, if the protest goes violent, you will end up in the prison.

3． 为什么新闻封锁，驱逐记者？如果是藏人打砸抢烧，那应该欢迎记者拍摄，让暴行暴光于天下。连伊拉克枪林弹雨，各国记者都不怕，水均益也亲临前线，西藏骚乱 为什么不能允许记者作为历史的见证？驱逐记者，让全世界记者和全世界人民都相信新华社的报道，太难了。尤其是新华社在当年的64，和近年的北京的萨斯风波 都有撒谎行为。

That to me is a bad step for the governemt, a typical reaction in China when dealing with crisis. We should let media to get in. But I agree that we need to select the media, as from the reporting from western media in last two weeks, you could see clearly that some media was so biased and made up stories. That's why I understand partially why government got all the medias out first, as there might be some medias knowing this could happen (riot and protest) and already got into Tibet to get ready for biased reporting.


4． 北京政府为什么不允许联合国独立调查团介入调查。如果新闻封锁驱逐记者是一个失误，那么联合国独立调查团是一个补救措施，是一个机会让“藏人打砸抢烧”暴行暴光于天下。

No, it is China internal affair, why we need UN. Rather I feel we should be fine with having media. If we invite UN this time, they would come everytime. Please remember UN is not purely fair as they are influenced by western world.

5． 北京政府报道有180名藏人自首。如果是达赖“有组织有预谋”地打砸抢，那么公安机关肯定能从这180名藏人那里得到线索和证据啊。为什么目前还未公布线索和证据？

China society is not western world, it doesn't have to publish all the evidence. Don't use all western criterions here.

6． 藏人打砸抢烧的整个过程里，为什么没有人拨打911，警察去哪里了？为什么新华社记者从容拍摄，却不拨打911？

How did you know there is no one dial 911? There must be tons of them. Where is the police? I guess they followed the order to not intervene at that time and let Tibetan to have full freedom to protest, otherwise, people ike you could complain there is crackdown.

7． 北京政府在事件发生后否认开枪（后来承认有开枪），这时候已经有藏人中枪和死亡的照片出现在网上。这些照片是真实的，还是伪造的，还是藏人杀死同胞嫁祸北京政府？

There is nothing wrong for Chinese police to open fire if those Tibetan trying to attack the imporant places like government building. What's wrong with it?

8． 新闻报道中央民族大学等高校的藏人学生有静坐等抗议活动。按理说，这些藏人学生是了解事情真相的，因为他们的父母亲人还在西藏，他们可以清楚地了解那里发生了什么。如果是“藏人打砸抢烧”，他们应该自知理亏，为什么这些高校的藏人学生还静坐抗议？

It is not as simple as you thought, how do you know they are not backed by some groups overseas who wants Tidet independence.

9． 北京政府的新闻指责西藏藏独势力有武装，那为什么电视画面和图片，只有徒手搏斗，和使用刀具，为什么没有枪支？

Knife is not weapon? Again, China doesn't have to show all the evidence in detail. Just like western media said soilders using gun to shot protester, but they never showed any video and pictures.

10． 温家宝在新闻发布会上说有确凿的证据是达赖“有组织有预谋”地打砸抢，达赖随后回应请温家宝公布证据，北京政府为什么不公布证据，让全世界人认清“达赖的本质”？

There could be some evidence from intelligence channel and they may not want to disclose it. Again, The government doesn't have to disclose everything they know, the same as Canadian governemtn and US government.

11． 北京政府为什么封锁海外站点，例如youtube等。如果封锁网络，国内老百姓就只能看到新华社的报道，为什么不能让国内老百姓得到全面的报道？是因为国内老百姓素质太低，没有鉴别能力吗？

But why don't you complain that you cann't read Chinese website about relevant reporting from here? Who is blocking that. China is not perfect in handling these crisis, don't be too picky, otherwise, I would suspect your real purpose.

12． 到底是谁先使用暴力？北京政府为什么回避这个问题？

The governement showed video of looting, killing people on the street, don't you know the answers from there?

13． 3月10日到3月13日到底是不是和平示威？北京政府只报道了3月14日的打砸抢烧，言外之意就是之前没有发生骚乱和人员伤亡。如果是和平示威，为什么要逮捕大量游行的藏民？

I have answered this before. It is not justified to use violence if peace protest lead to come kind of crackdown. What's wrong for police to detain some peaceful demonstrators, Police here are doing that all the time.

14． 藏民为什么那么恨汉人？为什么恨汉人却在同一天爆发？是不是因为被政府镇压而激发了对汉人的仇恨呢？俗话说，没有无缘无故的爱，也没有无缘无故的恨。

That's telling you exactly that this is very well organized.

15． 藏人有多少宗教自由和人权？其实国际社会关注的是藏人的人权和宗教自由，而不是西藏独立问题。那么藏人究竟有多少宗教自由和人权？北京政府只报道国家投资在西藏修路，采矿，改善藏民生活等，对宗教自由和基本人权这个藏民最关注的问题却语焉不详。

I feel Tibten has enough religious freedom. As for human right, as majority Chinese people, they may not have the same level human right as in western world, but far better than before 1950.

Don't you agree that investing on infrastructure is not a good way to improve the basic human right? If you are hungry, with no food to eat, how come you would like to have other rights.


16． 西藏独立的可能性有多大？其实西藏独立的可能性非常小，连达赖都反对独立，争取自治，因为达赖也意识到西藏的独立的可能性非常小，几乎不可能。国际社会也 都承认西藏是中国的一部分。而按照北京政府的宣传，仿佛西藏马上就要独立了，必须立刻镇压。好象是夸大了西藏独立的可能性，来激怒国内的民众，为政府的镇 压寻找借口。藏民既没有军队，也没有武装，连枪支都没有，所以西藏独立的可能性有多大？是不是被政府夸大了？而被日本占领的钓鱼岛，俄罗斯占领的140万 平方公里，应该是更急迫的问题，因为至少西藏至少目前还被中国政府控制着。

I guess you don't know the plan from Dalai, he wants to stay in China for the time being as there is no way now for Tibet to be independence from the perspective of economic and military capability, but the condition is he would control the area not only include current Tibet, but also those areas in Gansu, Si-Chuan etc where some Tibetan live to form a big Tibetan area. Then who knows someday when the condition is more mature, he would claim Tibet to be indepenence. And at that time, it will be more easy for those western countries who would like to see China break down to recognize Tibet as a country. That's the stretegy, which was used in Kosovo. Kosovo declare unilateral independence by its parliament which is dominant by Albanian, and now most western countries recognized it including Canada. That could happen in Tibet if we allow DaLai come back and do the same thing and that's the lesson we should learn from Kosovo.

 

[lifeisfun]

Let me comment on your claims

1． 北京政府宣传的是达赖“有组织有预谋”地打砸抢。凡是有头脑的人都想问一问：达赖有这么低智商，组织藏人打砸抢烧，然后授人以柄吗？

So you assume then it is the Beijing govenment starting this and let people boycott the Olympic, more stupid logic.

2． 北京政府只宣传3月14日藏人打砸抢烧，却对3月10日到13日发生的事情含糊其辞。3月10日到13日到底发生了什么？是不是外界报道的和平游行，静坐和绝食？

Even if so, so what, at least we didn't hear any riot and death for those days if there was crakcdown. What's the problem with crackdown on protest, we saw it everyday here in western world. do you have excuse to go violence if you got crackdown? Even in the western world, if the protest goes violent, you will end up in the prison.

3． 为什么新闻封锁，驱逐记者？如果是藏人打砸抢烧，那应该欢迎记者拍摄，让暴行暴光于天下。连伊拉克枪林弹雨，各国记者都不怕，水均益也亲临前线，西藏骚乱 为什么不能允许记者作为历史的见证？驱逐记者，让全世界记者和全世界人民都相信新华社的报道，太难了。尤其是新华社在当年的64，和近年的北京的萨斯风波 都有撒谎行为。

That to me is a bad step for the governemt, a typical reaction in China when dealing with crisis. We should let media to get in. But I agree that we need to select the media, as from the reporting from western media in last two weeks, you could see clearly that some media was so biased and made up stories. That's why I understand partially why government got all the medias out first, as there might be some medias knowing this could happen (riot and protest) and already got into Tibet to get ready for biased reporting.


4． 北京政府为什么不允许联合国独立调查团介入调查。如果新闻封锁驱逐记者是一个失误，那么联合国独立调查团是一个补救措施，是一个机会让“藏人打砸抢烧”暴行暴光于天下。

No, it is China internal affair, why we need UN. Rather I feel we should be fine with having media. If we invite UN this time, they would come everytime. Please remember UN is not purely fair as they are influenced by western world.

5． 北京政府报道有180名藏人自首。如果是达赖“有组织有预谋”地打砸抢，那么公安机关肯定能从这180名藏人那里得到线索和证据啊。为什么目前还未公布线索和证据？

China society is not western world, it doesn't have to publish all the evidence. Don't use all western criterions here.

6． 藏人打砸抢烧的整个过程里，为什么没有人拨打911，警察去哪里了？为什么新华社记者从容拍摄，却不拨打911？

How did you know there is no one dial 911? There must be tons of them. Where is the police? I guess they followed the order to not intervene at that time and let Tibetan to have full freedom to protest, otherwise, people ike you could complain there is crackdown.

7． 北京政府在事件发生后否认开枪（后来承认有开枪），这时候已经有藏人中枪和死亡的照片出现在网上。这些照片是真实的，还是伪造的，还是藏人杀死同胞嫁祸北京政府？

There is nothing wrong for Chinese police to open fire if those Tibetan trying to attack the imporant places like government building. What's wrong with it?

8． 新闻报道中央民族大学等高校的藏人学生有静坐等抗议活动。按理说，这些藏人学生是了解事情真相的，因为他们的父母亲人还在西藏，他们可以清楚地了解那里发生了什么。如果是“藏人打砸抢烧”，他们应该自知理亏，为什么这些高校的藏人学生还静坐抗议？

It is not as simple as you thought, how do you know they are not backed by some groups overseas who wants Tidet independence.

9． 北京政府的新闻指责西藏藏独势力有武装，那为什么电视画面和图片，只有徒手搏斗，和使用刀具，为什么没有枪支？

Knife is not weapon? Again, China doesn't have to show all the evidence in detail. Just like western media said soilders using gun to shot protester, but they never showed any video and pictures.

10． 温家宝在新闻发布会上说有确凿的证据是达赖“有组织有预谋”地打砸抢，达赖随后回应请温家宝公布证据，北京政府为什么不公布证据，让全世界人认清“达赖的本质”？

There could be some evidence from intelligence channel and they may not want to disclose it. Again, The government doesn't have to disclose everything they know, the same as Canadian governemtn and US government.

11． 北京政府为什么封锁海外站点，例如youtube等。如果封锁网络，国内老百姓就只能看到新华社的报道，为什么不能让国内老百姓得到全面的报道？是因为国内老百姓素质太低，没有鉴别能力吗？

But why don't you complain that you cann't read Chinese website about relevant reporting from here? Who is blocking that. China is not perfect in handling these crisis, don't be too picky, otherwise, I would suspect your real purpose.

12． 到底是谁先使用暴力？北京政府为什么回避这个问题？

The governement showed video of looting, killing people on the street, don't you know the answers from there?

13． 3月10日到3月13日到底是不是和平示威？北京政府只报道了3月14日的打砸抢烧，言外之意就是之前没有发生骚乱和人员伤亡。如果是和平示威，为什么要逮捕大量游行的藏民？

I have answered this before. It is not justified to use violence if peace protest lead to come kind of crackdown. What's wrong for police to detain some peaceful demonstrators, Police here are doing that all the time.

14． 藏民为什么那么恨汉人？为什么恨汉人却在同一天爆发？是不是因为被政府镇压而激发了对汉人的仇恨呢？俗话说，没有无缘无故的爱，也没有无缘无故的恨。

That's telling you exactly that this is very well organized.

15． 藏人有多少宗教自由和人权？其实国际社会关注的是藏人的人权和宗教自由，而不是西藏独立问题。那么藏人究竟有多少宗教自由和人权？北京政府只报道国家投资在西藏修路，采矿，改善藏民生活等，对宗教自由和基本人权这个藏民最关注的问题却语焉不详。

I feel Tibten has enough religious freedom. As for human right, as majority Chinese people, they may not have the same level human right as in western world, but far better than before 1950.

Don't you agree that investing on infrastructure is not a good way to improve the basic human right? If you are hungry, with no food to eat, how come you would like to have other rights.


16． 西藏独立的可能性有多大？其实西藏独立的可能性非常小，连达赖都反对独立，争取自治，因为达赖也意识到西藏的独立的可能性非常小，几乎不可能。国际社会也 都承认西藏是中国的一部分。而按照北京政府的宣传，仿佛西藏马上就要独立了，必须立刻镇压。好象是夸大了西藏独立的可能性，来激怒国内的民众，为政府的镇 压寻找借口。藏民既没有军队，也没有武装，连枪支都没有，所以西藏独立的可能性有多大？是不是被政府夸大了？而被日本占领的钓鱼岛，俄罗斯占领的140万 平方公里，应该是更急迫的问题，因为至少西藏至少目前还被中国政府控制着。

I guess you don't know the plan from Dalai, he wants to stay in China for the time being as there is no way now for Tibet to be independence from the perspective of economic and military capability, but the condition is he would control the area not only include current Tibet, but also those areas in Gansu, Si-Chuan etc where some Tibetan live to form a big Tibetan area. Then who knows someday when the condition is more mature, he would claim Tibet to be indepenence. And at that time, it will be more easy for those western countries who would like to see China break down to recognize Tibet as a country. That's the stretegy, which was used in Kosovo. Kosovo declare unilateral independence by its parliament which is dominant by Albanian, and now most western countries recognized it including Canada. That could happen in Tibet if we allow DaLai come back and do the same thing and that's the lesson we should learn from Kosovo.