精华 现在是时候关注跨年龄段bully和racism的时候了

[ert0000]

看到这个灰狗车杀人新闻,首先的反应是震惊. 受害者应该是无辜的,应该和凶手没有任何生活或工作上的关联. 凶手的暴行应该受到法律制裁,这是毫无疑问.

现在网上到处充斥着对凶手的谴责,越来越多的看开始用RACE CARD攻击诽谤ASIAN MALE. 那好,我用另外一个视角来看一些我认为可能触发造成这个悲剧的.ISSUES, 这些ISSUES可能是很多成年亚裔一般不愿面对或说出的.

车上有37人,应该是各色人种都有, 有老有少. 受害者(160cm)虽然比凶手(177cm)矮小. 受害者其实是很强壮的,看他的照片,身上肌肉发达并有刺身. 哪个亚裔没事会去挑战他?

“BULLY /RACISM” between whites and Asian at different age group.

一般来说, 男跟男斗,女和女斗, 大人PK 大人, KID PK KID. 在同一个族群,这种关系是天经地义的. 在不同种族群(尤其是白人和东亚裔), 大人PK 大人, KID PK KID
这种rule对亚裔是很不利的. 大家都知道白人男性和东亚裔男性之间存在很大的身高和力量的差距. 一般平均的亚裔成年男性比不过中等身材的白人青年.

一个白人青年(15-20)是不敢随意对白人成年人,作出侮辱或攻击性的行为或语言的. 但是他们却经常胆敢对东亚裔成年男性做出上述行为的. 我们在座各位35岁以上的中年男性, 你敢说你从来没有和这些白人15-20左右 TEENAGE之间ISSUE?

- 你们有没有在路上走路,被路过车上的白人青年莫名其妙辱骂的经历?
- 你们有没有遇到一些白人青年莫名其妙对你做鬼脸或手势?
- 你们有没有在低工资工作场所被比你年龄小很多的白人青年辱骂或身体攻击?
- 你们有没有在公车上或停车场遇到一些白人青年张牙舞爪的?

碰到上面的事情,你们怎么应对的? 有直接对抗的记录吗?

你如果在高科技公司或政府工作,是几乎没有机会在工作场所碰到的,只有在日常生活中有可能碰到, 一般有好工作的,心情比较好的,一般把这些事情IGNORE,部分强一点的, 可能回击get away, get out or report to police.,


看看凶手, 他一直在做低薪工作. 在工作场所碰到上述骚扰和攻击的机会远远超过有很好办公室环境的人. 如果连我一直有专业工作和生活无忧的,和他身材类似的,都时不时仅在工作外时间遇到这些白人青年的骚扰并准备买刀自卫. 他做送报纸(主流)英文报纸的,并在麦当老打工的. 这些的事情还少吗?

如果一个成年亚裔男性,被一个白人15-20 “kid” 侮辱或攻击是否比被成年白人攻击更depress and anger?

并不是想帮他推拖责任,杀人偿命,天经地义. 问题是我们,尤其是Asian Adult Male是否能够正视和面对上面我说的issue?

主流社会是如何对待TROUBLE WHITE TEENAGE的? 去年KANATA KATIMAVIK 那LAO FAMILY的汽车就是被这样的”kids” 轮胎扎破的并涂上反华口号? 市议员最后说:” There is no racism in our city, these are a bundle of stupid kids, they don’t know what they are doing”

 

[studying]

It sounds reasonable.

 

[ert0000]

这个案子和杨佳案存在某些相似之处:

就是一个来自相对或绝对弱势群体的一员,用一种极端和恐怖的办法了结了他对这个强势群体部分曾经对他欺压过的人和事件的一个极端暴力宣泄.

如果中国社会能够从杨佳事件得到警视,改进中国强势执法机关和草根平民阶层的关系. 为什么加拿大不能从中得到一些启发并改进族裔关系, 避免类似事件的发生?

 

[Caohaoying]

楼主说得有理。所以坏事是可以变好事的。做人要留有余地，把兔子逼急了也会咬人的。最看不起那些一出事就低调的华人。你要是一向强悍，没人敢欺负你。

 

[Tongjiya]

I totally agree

I totally agree with you. It is not only white men who give us a hard time, but white women can also be equally vicious, especially in the office environment.

My experience of racism in Canada is rather dismal - you may not see overt racism at the working environment, but anywhere else racial problems permeate through the entire society. If I had known how bad racism is in Canada, I would not come here.

As for this incident on the Greyhound bus, the victim is "white trash", to put it bluntly. Greyhound buses in Canada and the US are typically used by people from the lower classes - in fact my doctor once commented that city and long-distance buses were basically "mobile mental hospitals". There is no doubt that Vince Li had mental problems, but he must also have been provoked to act like this. I really hope that he will get a fair trial, but I am not optimistic, given his race and the current social environment.

看到这个灰狗车杀人新闻,首先的反应是震惊. 受害者应该是无辜的,应该和凶手没有任何生活或工作上的关联. 凶手的暴行应该受到法律制裁,这是毫无疑问.

现在网上到处充斥着对凶手的谴责,越来越多的看开始用RACE CARD攻击诽谤ASIAN MALE. 那好,我用另外一个视角来看一些我认为可能触发造成这个悲剧的.ISSUES, 这些ISSUES可能是很多成年亚裔一般不愿面对或说出的.

车上有37人,应该是各色人种都有, 有老有少. 受害者(160cm)虽然比凶手(177cm)矮小. 受害者其实是很强壮的,看他的照片,身上肌肉发达并有刺身. 哪个亚裔没事会去挑战他?

“BULLY /RACISM” between whites and Asian at different age group.

一般来说, 男跟男斗,女和女斗, 大人PK 大人, KID PK KID. 在同一个族群,这种关系是天经地义的. 在不同种族群(尤其是白人和东亚裔), 大人PK 大人, KID PK KID
这种rule对亚裔是很不利的. 大家都知道白人男性和东亚裔男性之间存在很大的身高和力量的差距. 一般平均的亚裔成年男性比不过中等身材的白人青年.

一个白人青年(15-20)是不敢随意对白人成年人,作出侮辱或攻击性的行为或语言的. 但是他们却经常胆敢对东亚裔成年男性做出上述行为的. 我们在座各位35岁以上的中年男性, 你敢说你从来没有和这些白人15-20左右 TEENAGE之间ISSUE?

- 你们有没有在路上走路,被路过车上的白人青年莫名其妙辱骂的经历?
- 你们有没有遇到一些白人青年莫名其妙对你做鬼脸或手势?
- 你们有没有在低工资工作场所被比你年龄小很多的白人青年辱骂或身体攻击?
- 你们有没有在公车上或停车场遇到一些白人青年张牙舞爪的?

碰到上面的事情,你们怎么应对的? 有直接对抗的记录吗?

你如果在高科技公司或政府工作,是几乎没有机会在工作场所碰到的,只有在日常生活中有可能碰到, 一般有好工作的,心情比较好的,一般把这些事情IGNORE,部分强一点的, 可能回击get away, get out or report to police.,


看看凶手, 他一直在做低薪工作. 在工作场所碰到上述骚扰和攻击的机会远远超过有很好办公室环境的人. 如果连我一直有专业工作和生活无忧的,和他身材类似的,都时不时仅在工作外时间遇到这些白人青年的骚扰并准备买刀自卫. 他做送报纸(主流)英文报纸的,并在麦当老打工的. 这些的事情还少吗?

如果一个成年亚裔男性,被一个白人15-20 “kid” 侮辱或攻击是否比被成年白人攻击更depress and anger?

并不是想帮他推拖责任,杀人偿命,天经地义. 问题是我们,尤其是Asian Adult Male是否能够正视和面对上面我说的issue?

主流社会是如何对待TROUBLE WHITE TEENAGE的? 去年KANATA KATIMAVIK 那LAO FAMILY的汽车就是被这样的”kids” 轮胎扎破的并涂上反华口号? 市议员最后说:” There is no racism in our city, these are a bundle of stupid kids, they don’t know what they are doing”

 

[anti-cnn]

对死者和李先生，无疑都是一个悲剧。
有一点不明白的是，为什么警方不让媒体和任何目击者联系？
到目前为止，媒体只报道李先生很“残忍”地杀人了。而没有任何报道是什么原因。
如果李先生是很随机地杀人，那么他肯定有精神病，应该得到应有的治疗，而不是指控。
如果李先生不是随机杀人，那么是什么原因？

 

[Tongjiya]

The Winnipeg Free Press reported that Vince Li had lived in Winnipeg for many years before moving to Edmonton last year. In fact, his wife moved to Edmonton only a few months ago. It follows that Vince Li and Tim McLean might have crossed paths in Winnipeg......

And why did Vince Li move to Edmonton? Apparently both he and his wife had stable jobs in Winnipeg......

如果李先生不是随机杀人，那么是什么原因？

 

[ert0000]

对死者和李先生，无疑都是一个悲剧。
有一点不明白的是，为什么警方不让媒体和任何目击者联系？
到目前为止，媒体只报道李先生很“残忍”地杀人了。而没有任何报道是什么原因。
如果李先生是很随机地杀人，那么他肯定有精神病，应该得到应有的治疗，而不是指控。
如果李先生不是随机杀人，那么是什么原因？

一车人都是目击者啊. 杀人罪肯定难逃. 关键是什么事件,是什么令李看见TIM,联想起那个(或那些)曾经让他屈辱的人或事件?

如果李杀的是真正的'小孩',老人,妇女, No sympathy at all !!!!!

如果确实是有一个或一群有类似像貌特征的白人青年曾经对他实施伤害或屈辱, 那我相信会有人给他和他家属捐款的

 

[flyinthesky]

是不是有些过啦。。
人家有天大的错，和你有天大的仇恨，以至于用那样的方式杀人？？毫无疑问，是这个杀人的家伙自己的问题。。

 

[wiiwii]

一车人都是目击者啊. 杀人罪肯定难逃. 关键是什么事件,是什么令李看见TIM,联想起那个(或那些)曾经让他屈辱的人或事件?

如果李杀的是真正的'小孩',老人,妇女, No sympathy at all !!!!!

如果确实是有一个或一群有类似像貌特征的白人青年曾经对他实施伤害或屈辱, 那我相信会有人给他和他家属捐款的

you are sick!!!

按照你的讲法,在中国各大城市包受侮辱和欺压的农民工更有权利杀人放火了? LI 案他有没有承被人歧视或侮辱还是问号.农民工们被侮辱和歧视可是事实. 有网友讲过一天到晚唠叨歧视的往往是LOSER,看来这话有点道理.一件偶然发生的案件,没必要拿他大张旗鼓的做文章,发泄对社会的不满, 大部分华人在加拿大过的都挺好,有空,多想想多学学,把日子也过的好点

 

[ert0000]

you are sick!!!

按照你的讲法,在中国各大城市包受侮辱和欺压的农民工更有权利杀人放火了? LI 案他有没有承被人歧视或侮辱还是问号.农民工们被侮辱和歧视可是事实. 有网友讲过一天到晚唠叨歧视的往往是LOSER,看来这话有点道理.一件偶然发生的案件,没必要拿他大张旗鼓的做文章,发泄对社会的不满, 大部分华人在加拿大过的都挺好,有空,多想想多学学,把日子也过的好点

你还讥讥歪歪地搬出你的LOSER理论. 你牛逼敢对你做侮辱语言或动作的本地青年说:"You are sick"吗? 我量你也没这个胆. 就牛逼轰轰来耻笑现在还在做一些低薪工作的同胞? 告诉你, 留点口德,别以为你现在有个专业工作,就咋样了? 这世道很难说,说不定你哪天也有不得已去做这些低薪工作,象这个李先生那样在walmart做夜班把上顿的货物搬上高高的货架.

这可是体力货,工头可不象在政府或北电的经理那样客客气气. 说让你干啥你稍微慢点,几个FUCK就脱口而出了.

李先生不想过得好点吗? 这加拿大现在还有多少象政府和北电那样高薪轻松的工作? 华人现在过得好点的,不都是在这两个方向?

============================================

Alleged beheader lost Wal-Mart job over conflict with fellow worker

40-year-old Vince Li was non-entity at work, 'but we're talking about him now'


Steve Lillebuen, The Edmonton Journal; With files from Jennifer Yang and the Winnipeg Free Press

Published: 7:40 am
Vince Weiguang Li rarely spoke during his lunch breaks at Wal-Mart, keeping his head down and out of sight until a disagreement with another employee led to his dismissal.
A month later, the 40-year-old was charged with second-degree murder, accused in the gruesome stabbing and beheading of a Greyhound bus passenger in Manitoba late last week.
As anyone can imagine, his wife is shocked and feeling isolated, the couple's former Winnipeg pastor, Tom Castor, said Sunday.

View Larger Image A 40-year-old Edmonton man was identified by RCMP this morning as the man charged with the fatal mutilation of a fellow passenger aboard a Greyhound bus on Thursday evening. Vince Weiguang Li appeared in court in Portage la Prairie, charged with second-degree murder.

JAMES TURNER / WINNIPEG FREE PRESS


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"She is a person who is a victim in this as well and really needs the support of her community," he said.
It's only now that Wal-Mart co-workers of Li remember him vividly -- his interest in automotives, his quiet demeanor -- during his various shifts at the Clareview store, near 137th Avenue and 40th Street.
"Nobody talked to him," one co-worker recalled outside the store Sunday. "And he didn't talk to us, but we're talking about him now."
At first, they didn't recognize him when pictures of the man, shackled in a blue "Sheriff Prisoner" outfit, were splashed across the news as he was shuffled into the Portage la Prairie, Man. courthouse Friday.
"His face looked kind of punched, but people started talking. We started asking about him," one Wal-Mart employee said. "He looked a lot younger when he worked here."
Employees then asked their managers if it was the same Vince Li they had worked with, and they confirmed that it was.
Li worked mostly night shifts and performed janitorial duties, co-workers said. He often spent time in the store's automotive department.
Four weeks ago, he was fired following a "disagreement" with other employees, several Wal-Mart workers told The Journal. They all spoke without giving their names.
Assistant manager Mike Wells said company policy prevents anyone from speaking about past employees. He directed all further comment to Wal-Mart Canada's corporate head office, but calls were not returned Sunday.
Li first came to Edmonton two years ago, abruptly leaving his wife, Anna, alone in Winnipeg until she joined him later, family friends said. The couple had moved there from China four years ago and made friends at the Grant Memorial Baptist Church.
In a sermon Sunday, Castor mentioned Li and addressed the horrific attack.
"Deep in our hearts, (we) recognize that we live in a broken world and things are not like they are supposed to be," he said.
Li had worked at the church for under a year in 2004 as a custodian, he added, but his behaviour never appeared out of the ordinary.
"Of the people who knew him -- this makes no sense to any of them," he said.
After Li was fired from Wal-Mart, he called Vincent Augert, who had previously hired him to deliver newspapers for his independent contracting agency.
He later told Augert that he had to leave for a job interview in Winnipeg. Li's wife told Augert that there was a family emergency.
On Monday, Li delivered his last bundle of newspapers. Two days later, Li boarded a Greyhound bus out of Brandon, bound for Winnipeg.
Just over an hour later, Tim McLean was stabbed repeatedly as other passengers fled in terror. As shocked witnesses looked on, the young man, heading home from working at Edmonton's Capital Ex, was decapitated by the attacker.

The victim's family has asked for privacy, calling the 22-year-old "a little guy with a heart bigger than you could know."
In Edmonton, Li had few known close friends and he didn't speak with his neighbours. But Augert did meet him regularly for coffee at McDonald's, he recalled Sunday. They would chit-chat, but the soft-spoken man usually provided few details of his life, his spouse, hobbies or friends.
"Something wasn't quite right, but he wouldn't talk about it," he said.

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Li will appear in court again on Tuesday. As of Sunday afternoon, he had not spoken a word and had not seen a doctor. Sources said Li is on suicide watch.
A judge is expected to rule Tuesday on the Crown's request to order him to undergo a psychiatric evaluation.
A family friend said this weekend that she felt Li was troubled, but had refused repeated offers to seek help.
The family friend, who works in the mental health field, said it was obvious Li was struggling. "He needed help, but he just wouldn't get it," she said.

 

[Tongjiya]

Very Sad

I agree with you. I have experienced all these for many years in Canada. However, even if you work in an office environment, it does not mean that people like you - they just tolerate you more and are more sophisticated in hiding their disgust towards minorities.

Li was apparently fired after having a disagreement with his co-worker. It is very typical - if you disagrees with a white person, you are automatically wrong and will be fired.

你还讥讥歪歪地搬出你的LOSER理论. 你牛逼敢对你做侮辱语言或动作的本地青年说:"You are sick"吗? 我量你也没这个胆. 就牛逼轰轰来耻笑现在还在做一些低薪工作的同胞? 告诉你, 留点口德,别以为你现在有个专业工作,就咋样了? 这世道很难说,说不定你哪天也有不得已去做这些低薪工作,象这个李先生那样在walmart做夜班把上顿的货物搬上高高的货架.

这可是体力货,工头可不象在政府或北电的经理那样客客气气. 说让你干啥你稍微慢点,几个FUCK就脱口而出了.

李先生不想过得好点吗? 这加拿大现在还有多少象政府和北电那样高薪轻松的工作? 华人现在过得好点的,不都是在这两个方向?

============================================

Alleged beheader lost Wal-Mart job over conflict with fellow worker

40-year-old Vince Li was non-entity at work, 'but we're talking about him now'


Steve Lillebuen, The Edmonton Journal; With files from Jennifer Yang and the Winnipeg Free Press

Published: 7:40 am
Vince Weiguang Li rarely spoke during his lunch breaks at Wal-Mart, keeping his head down and out of sight until a disagreement with another employee led to his dismissal.
A month later, the 40-year-old was charged with second-degree murder, accused in the gruesome stabbing and beheading of a Greyhound bus passenger in Manitoba late last week.
As anyone can imagine, his wife is shocked and feeling isolated, the couple's former Winnipeg pastor, Tom Castor, said Sunday.

View Larger Image A 40-year-old Edmonton man was identified by RCMP this morning as the man charged with the fatal mutilation of a fellow passenger aboard a Greyhound bus on Thursday evening. Vince Weiguang Li appeared in court in Portage la Prairie, charged with second-degree murder.

JAMES TURNER / WINNIPEG FREE PRESS


Email to a friendPrinter friendly Font:

• *
• *
• *
• *

"She is a person who is a victim in this as well and really needs the support of her community," he said.
It's only now that Wal-Mart co-workers of Li remember him vividly -- his interest in automotives, his quiet demeanor -- during his various shifts at the Clareview store, near 137th Avenue and 40th Street.
"Nobody talked to him," one co-worker recalled outside the store Sunday. "And he didn't talk to us, but we're talking about him now."
At first, they didn't recognize him when pictures of the man, shackled in a blue "Sheriff Prisoner" outfit, were splashed across the news as he was shuffled into the Portage la Prairie, Man. courthouse Friday.
"His face looked kind of punched, but people started talking. We started asking about him," one Wal-Mart employee said. "He looked a lot younger when he worked here."
Employees then asked their managers if it was the same Vince Li they had worked with, and they confirmed that it was.
Li worked mostly night shifts and performed janitorial duties, co-workers said. He often spent time in the store's automotive department.
Four weeks ago, he was fired following a "disagreement" with other employees, several Wal-Mart workers told The Journal. They all spoke without giving their names.
Assistant manager Mike Wells said company policy prevents anyone from speaking about past employees. He directed all further comment to Wal-Mart Canada's corporate head office, but calls were not returned Sunday.
Li first came to Edmonton two years ago, abruptly leaving his wife, Anna, alone in Winnipeg until she joined him later, family friends said. The couple had moved there from China four years ago and made friends at the Grant Memorial Baptist Church.
In a sermon Sunday, Castor mentioned Li and addressed the horrific attack.
"Deep in our hearts, (we) recognize that we live in a broken world and things are not like they are supposed to be," he said.
Li had worked at the church for under a year in 2004 as a custodian, he added, but his behaviour never appeared out of the ordinary.
"Of the people who knew him -- this makes no sense to any of them," he said.
After Li was fired from Wal-Mart, he called Vincent Augert, who had previously hired him to deliver newspapers for his independent contracting agency.
He later told Augert that he had to leave for a job interview in Winnipeg. Li's wife told Augert that there was a family emergency.
On Monday, Li delivered his last bundle of newspapers. Two days later, Li boarded a Greyhound bus out of Brandon, bound for Winnipeg.
Just over an hour later, Tim McLean was stabbed repeatedly as other passengers fled in terror. As shocked witnesses looked on, the young man, heading home from working at Edmonton's Capital Ex, was decapitated by the attacker.

The victim's family has asked for privacy, calling the 22-year-old "a little guy with a heart bigger than you could know."
In Edmonton, Li had few known close friends and he didn't speak with his neighbours. But Augert did meet him regularly for coffee at McDonald's, he recalled Sunday. They would chit-chat, but the soft-spoken man usually provided few details of his life, his spouse, hobbies or friends.
"Something wasn't quite right, but he wouldn't talk about it," he said.

Email to a friendPrinter friendly Font:

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• *
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Li will appear in court again on Tuesday. As of Sunday afternoon, he had not spoken a word and had not seen a doctor. Sources said Li is on suicide watch.
A judge is expected to rule Tuesday on the Crown's request to order him to undergo a psychiatric evaluation.
A family friend said this weekend that she felt Li was troubled, but had refused repeated offers to seek help.
The family friend, who works in the mental health field, said it was obvious Li was struggling. "He needed help, but he just wouldn't get it," she said.

 

[busyaround]

完全同意ert0000 ， Caohaoying 和 Tongyiya 的观点.

来加的时间长了,这样的事情也经历过很多次. 最郁闷的就是邻居的小孩就是这样的一个家伙,时不时地来个恶作剧, 而且其单亲母亲根本不管. 报过警,警察也不理睬. 现在他年龄还小才13岁左右，不敢太造次，再过几年就很难说了。

看来俺以后只好搬家了,可谁能保证以后的邻居没有这种恶棍呢？

 

[london fog]

靠 小孩恶棍， 那我曾孙子早就提把菜刀上去把他剁了

 

[ert0000]

从凶手在最近WALMART因为和同事争吵而被解雇, 更有可能是work place dispute and humiliation.

下面是看李或其他人是否能够提供进一步的细节. Walamrt里一般是一群高中生和中年人构成. 在Walmart当个工头,高中生文化足够了. 夜班工作一般是累活, 打扫卫生,搬运货物等. 李如果碰上一个烂崽工头, 如果李以前在国内都是副教授或研究室主任,厂长之类的. 岂能咽下被小 烂崽的吆三喝四?

在这种争吵场合,如果李英文不好,一般其他人都顺水推舟贬李. 可能最后的结果是李成孤家寡人.经理/工头/同事一起骂骂咧咧, FUCK之类的话不会少,,就埋下了仇恨的种子. 这次失败的争吵应该是触发他崩溃的因素.

Walmart工作虽然低薪,但也不难看,去了一个月就因Work Place dispute被炒, 一次争执, 一般双方都有过头的话,他被屈辱的炒掉. 对方笑喜喜. WHY?

如果媒体真要追踪, 就应该把那几个曾经羞辱过李的Walmart经理工头烂崽照片和受害人照片比较一下,应该不难发现一些因素.

上面的场面toronto的同胞估计碰到得更多, 在rolia 网站搜索一下,应该有一堆类似的故事.