在天朝普通老百姓卖的房子最终不是你的。

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http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/01/b...oubt.html?contentCollection=weekendreads&_r=0
In China, Homeowners Find Themselves in a Land of Doubt: State Leases on All Private Property Beginning to Expire, Government Demanding Large Payments From Homeowners to Keep Their Homes
In China, Homeowners Find Themselves in a Land of Doubt
点击查看本文中文版 Read in Chinese


By STUART LEAVENWORTH and KIKI ZHAOMAY 31, 2016

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    But even as it has pushed for increased homeownership, the Chinese Communist Party has done little to loosen its grip on the nation’s land. The party attacked private landlords during its rise to power, and when it took control, it nationalized all land, following the Soviet model. Although the death of Mao Zedong led to reforms that allowed people to own their own homes, the central government continued to retain title to the land, giving it a major lever in China’s economy.

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    Some experts say the central government cannot continue to serve as national landlord. “Our country still believes in an ideology that is already outdated,” said Mao Yushi, a prominent economist who previously directed the Unirule Institute of Economics, a Beijing research firm. “The patriarch of public ownership, the Soviet Union, has collapsed already, but we are still holding onto public ownership.”

    Giving land to the people would not be easy. Local governments in China do not have the power to levy taxes, so leasing land is one of the few ways they have to raise money.

    Allowing Chinese to own land could also concentrate wealth in the hands of a few, Mr. Mao said. “So how would we tax those who end up owning the vast swath?” he asked.

    “I will be dead when the
    lease expires, but will I be
    able to give it to my son?”

    CHEN FURONG, 69

    In 2007, China moved to reassure homeowners by requiring local governments to renew 70-year leases automatically. Yet the law was silent on whether homeowners would have to pay for the renewal and what would happen to those with shorter leases.

    China’s Legislature needs to resolve this issue, said Sun Yuhua, an associate researcher at the East China University of Political Science and Law. “Otherwise,” he said, “it will trigger huge disputes.”

    Uncertainties about land leases come at a time of broader concerns about the affordability of housing in China. Some smaller cities have gluts of unoccupied apartments, but housing prices have risen steadily in wealthy cities like Shanghai and Beijing.

    As the state-run Global Times said in a May 4 commentary, “For millions of home buyers, after paying an already exorbitant house price in the overheated market, another hit to their savings will be hard to accept.”

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    Beijing is keeping a close eye on events in Wenzhou, a coastal city of eight million people in eastern China that was one of the first to set up private enterprise after China opened up its economy in the late 1970s. The government’s land ministry sent an inspection team to Wenzhou in April, according to state media. National and local government officials declined to comment.

    At least three Wenzhou neighborhoods have been hit by government requests for money to renew land leases, including Henghe North, where Ms. Wang and Mr. Chen live. The Chens’ home is typical of the area’s modest dwellings. Nestled on the third floor of a gray-tiled building, the apartment crams two bedrooms into 580 square feet.

    Photo
    28CHINAHOME3-master675.jpg

    A park in Wenzhou. A government request for money to renew a homeowner’s land lease there attracted national attention. CreditLam Yik Fei for The New York Times
    A blocky complex of buildings, Henghe North is bordered by a busy avenue lined with noodle stands, vegetable markets and other small shops. Trees and flower beds grow along the canal that abuts the development. Mr. Chen said local people pooled their money to build a community center designed like a Chinese temple.

    The unassuming neighborhood was turned upside down by Ms. Wang’s discovery. Local apartment owners started checking their lease documents. Chinese reporters went door to door, especially in Ms. Wang’s building. “There were so many journalists here that she didn’t want to talk to anyone,” Mr. Chen said.

    Reached by telephone, a woman who identified herself as Ms. Wang said she was waiting to see how the government would resolve the problem. She declined to comment further.

    Property records in China are spotty, relatively new and unavailable to the public. According to her neighbors and local media, Ms. Wang and her family bought her 860-square-foot apartment three years ago for 1.4 million renminbi, or about $210,000 at today’s exchange rates.

    Several blocks away, residents of another affected neighborhood, Shuixin, wondered what would happen when they tried to sell their apartments.

    “People don’t know what to do,” said Ge Qingchuan, a retired real estate agent who stopped his motor scooter to talk. “No one paid attention to land leases, but now there are problems.”

    “For example,” he added, “if you are buying a new apartment and using your current apartment, with a 20-year lease, as collateral to borrow money, you won’t be able to do so. If the banks see your land lease is expiring, they won’t lend you money.”
 
产权到期的尴尬:中国房主仍是国家土地上的租客
STUART LEAVENWORTH, KIKI ZHAO 2016年6月1日
Lam Yik Fei for The New York Times

中国温州横河北小区。

中国温州——在23年前,陈福荣和妻子买下了一处靠近市中心的住房,位于绿树成荫的运河旁。这处房产是他们家在中国经济奇迹中获得的自己那部分的财富,夫妻俩梦想着把它传给子孙后代。

然后,当他们的邻居试图出售自己的房产时,事情就变得不确定起来。

  • 查看大图
    Lam Yik Fei for The New York Times

    温州的这类住宅可能是私人所有,但是土地却属于政府,由其以长期租赁的方式提供给开放商和房主。

  • 查看大图
    Lam Yik Fei for The New York Times

    温州一座公园。当地政府要求一名业主交钱才能续土地产权,在全国引发了关注。
相关文章
就像中国的其他所有房主一样,陈福荣和邻居是自己住房的所有者,但房屋下面的土地却不属于他们。中国所有的土地都属于政府,以20到70年的租约出租给了开发商和房主。

这位邻居姓王。当她试图出售自己的公寓时,当地官员告诉她,土地租约已经到期。他们对她说,要想出售公寓,她就必须向他们支付房屋售价的三分之一。

王女士的抗议在全国引发了关注。突然之间,在房产上投入了数亿——乃至数万亿——资金的无数中国人,都变得忧心忡忡起来。他们认为,如果中国其他地区的地方当局也采取同样的做法,自己的很大一部分财富就可能落入政府手里。

“我们的土地产权到期后会发生什么?”69岁的陈先生发问。他和妻子手中的租期为70年。“到期的时候我可能已经过世,但我可以把它留给儿子吗?”

中国的股市震荡不断,对向海外汇款又施加了严格限制,因此很多中国家庭把资金投向了住宅。德克萨斯州农工大学(Texas A&M University)经济学教授甘犁表示,中国家庭把近三分之二的财富投入到了住房上。他主持的中国家庭调查有很多读者。一些家庭拥有两处或更多房产,就像美国投资者炒股一样进行买卖。

中国想要在经济方面更上一层楼,公众的家庭财富是个关键。随着出口和制造业这些可靠的增长来源走弱,中国正在试图把公众变成美国风格的消费者。如果对家庭财富有信心,人们会更容易打开钱包消费。

但是,即使中国共产党在推动住房拥有率的提升,它却几乎没有采取行动来放松国家对土地的控制权。中共在崛起期间对地主进行过打击,上台之后又采取了苏联模式,将所有的土地国有化。虽然在毛泽东逝世之后进行了改革,人们可以拥有自己的住房,但土地所有权继续掌握在中央政府手中,也成为了它在中国经济中的主要筹码。

一些专家认为,中央政府不能再继续充当“国家地主”了。“我们国家仍然相信一个过时的理念,”著名经济学家、北京天则经济研究所前所长茅于轼说。“公有制的老祖宗苏联已经垮台了。我们还在坚持。”

把土地分给公众也不是那么容易。地方政府没有征税的权力,因此,土地出让金是他们为数不多的资金筹集的途径之一。

茅于轼表示,让个人获得土地所有权可能也会导致财富集中在少数人手中。“对大量土地所有者要怎么征税?”他问道。

在2007年,为了安抚房主,中国开始要求地方政府对70年的产权进行自动续约。然而,对于房主是否需要交钱续约,短于70年的租约又会怎么样,法律上却没有动静。

华东政法大学助理研究员孙煜华说,中国的立法机构需要解决这一问题。“否则会造成巨大纠纷,”他说。

土地租约不确定性问题的爆发,正值中国公众对住房价格的承受力在引发更广泛的担忧。在一些规模较小的城市,空置的公寓房供过于求,但在上海和北京这样的富裕城市,住房价格却在稳步上升。

正如国有报纸《环球时报》5月4日的一篇评论文章所言,“千百万购房者已经在过热的市场上为高房价买了单,很难接受其积蓄将再度缩水的事实。”

温州是一个人口800万的东部沿海城市,也是中国在20世纪70年代末实施改革开放以后最先创办私企的城市之一。北京方面正密切关注这里的动向。据国有媒体报道,今年4月,国土部曾派工作组前往温州调研。中央和地方政府部门的官员拒绝置评。

在温州,至少有三个小区的业主被政府要求缴纳土地使用证续期费用,其中包括王女士居住的横河北小区。陈福荣夫妇住在该小区一处不起眼的普通住宅里。他们的公寓位于一栋灰砖建筑的三楼,有两间卧室,面积仅为54平方米左右,显得颇为局促。

横河北小区是一片方头方脑的建筑,与之毗邻的一条面繁忙街道上林立着面摊、菜市场以及其他小店。小区旁边,树木与花坛沿着运河河岸排列开来。陈福荣说,这里的社区中心是当地居民集资修建的,设计得好像一座中国寺庙。

这个不起眼的社区被王女士的惊人发现搅了个天翻地覆。业主们纷纷开始查看他们的土地使用证。中国记者挨家挨户采访,尤其是在王女士住的那栋楼里。“记者实在太多,所以她都不想接受任何采访了,”陈福荣说。

我们进行了电话采访,接电话的人自称王女士。她说她正等着看政府如何处理这一问题。她拒绝进一步置评。

在中国,地产记录的完备程度参差不齐,相关记录都是比较新近的时间建立的,且不对公众开放。根据王女士的邻居和当地媒体的说法,三年前,王女士一家花140万人民币(以当前汇率计,约合21万美元)买下了她那套面积约为80平方米的公寓。

几个街区之外,同样受到影响的水心小区的居民想要知道,当他们试图卖掉自己的公寓时会发生什么。

“大家都不知道该怎么办,”退休房地产经纪人葛清传把摩托车停了下来,说道。“以前没人关注土地使用证,但现在它们成了问题。”

“举个例子,”他继续说道,“如果你要买一套新公寓,想用手上的一套土地使用期限为20年的公寓申请抵押贷款,银行是不会借钱给你的。
 
加拿大土地私有,但地下五公尺(?)好像也不属于你的。
 
放心好了, 国家不会真的收回去的, 子子孙孙可以接着住 ...
 
他们不是每年纳税,隔几十年交点儿钱不过分。
 
想想俺们的地税,就不说啥了。
 
否则那房子就不是现在这个价
 
想想俺们的地税,就不说啥了。

我们交纳的税,能想得到的: 个人所得税、房地产税、HST、汽油税、...。
 
我们交纳的税,能想得到的: 个人所得税、房地产税、HST、汽油税、...。
论苛捐杂税,天朝还真没法和加拿大比。
 
加拿大土地私有,但地下五公尺(?)好像也不属于你的。
地上也不见得就是你的。
你停止交地税试试看。
 
天朝的立国之本就是土地公有制吧,貌似。
所以, 就算从习近平, 到张高丽, 都特么想把土地分了给大家个人, 但是做不到的, 除非重新各省独立, 然后再次共和建国。

而且, 这个标题实际是值得商榷的。
天朝的房子, 是你的, 只不过土地不是你的。 但是架不住你的房子要依赖土地, 所以就把两个问题捆绑了。 你要有本事把属于你的那一个方块扛着就走, 谁还能收你的费用? 什么70年,100年, 哪怕一年一核算, 也跟你没关系啊。

实际上, 现代的建筑科技完全可以做到不依赖土地的房子, 最简单的, 几个集装箱放在拖车上,那就不依赖土地了呗。
现在改造过的集装箱房子, 住着很舒服的。

不过天朝人民想不通,一定要钢筋水泥打地基, 固定在地上的房子。
天朝政府也不支持开发不依赖土地的住宅。
 
最后编辑:
地上也不见得就是你的。
你停止交地税试试看。
对!加拿大的房子,所占土地也不能算私有,是要交土地税的。
 
最后编辑:
对!加拿大的房子,所占土地也不能算私有,是要交土地税的。
没错! 凡是需要交税的东西, 就不是私有的! :buttrock:

你看, 你平时死样怪气的撒泼打滚, 也没达到颠覆资本主义私有制的目的。
经由哥们儿我轻轻点拨一下, 革命胜利的曙光不就看到了?!

所以, 革命,是要动脑子的。
 
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