大家讨论一下，马斯克乔布斯哪个更牛

[ottawa_tj]

前Google Eric Schmidt评价Elon Musk：技术上。有可能比Jobs历害， 但是Elon不仅有Technology brilliant，还有非常强大的risk tolerance，从濒临破产到现在万亿企业。。。而且善于和政府合作，利用政府的资金，这个Jobs没有。




（34:12开始）

 

[ottawa_tj]

Musk演讲差点，因为人家是Engineer出生，说的少做的多。

他小时候好像有口吃，需要接受speech therapy。

 

[billwanhua]

前Google Eric Schmidt评价Elon Musk：技术上。有可能比Jobs历害， 但是Elon不仅有Technology brilliant，还有非常强大的risk tolerance，从濒临破产到现在万亿企业。。。而且善于和政府合作，利用政府的资金，这个Jobs没有。




（34:12开始）

musk 冒险精神确实比较强， 从根本上来说，冒险是人类最重要的本质，包含走出非洲，哥伦布发现新大陆，到未来走出地球移民火星等，都是人类冒险发展进步的过程

 

[billwanhua]

老马关于加密货币的言论很掉身份，还有嘲笑老贝身价不如他也很丢分。他这个级别的人说出这些话就象是个唯利是图的商人一样，这点是不如老乔给人更有情怀的感觉。

牛人道德上都可以归入人渣一类，首先他们是天才，会对别人特别是下属按他们自己水准，有不耐心和不容纳普通人错误的情况，其次，道德高的人竞争力不强，在商场上更容易被淘汰。
网上很多有关jobs 是jerk的讨论。贝秃子也是个大恶人。当然老马更恶。

特别出名的jobs拒绝付女儿钱（有法庭判决）：
He would not acknowledge his daughter was his until a DNA test and a court order forced him to pay alimony. While his daughter and her mother were impoverished, he was living the high life with expensive cars and whatever he wanted with a snap of his fingers. He did not even bother to see her. At one point she did move in with him, but he never hugged her or paid any attention to her and when she asked for a kiss good night they just laughed at her.

He claimed that those who worked for him were "not used to working in an environment of excellence," but the bigger truth is that the environment he created at Apple bore more of a resemblance to a boat full of galley slaves. People there were worked into nervous breakdowns and heart attacks. According to the man himself, the world could be split between the A-levels and the bozos. Only one kind was welcome at Apple. If he had two teams where one was not delivering what he wanted, well, Jack Jack from the Incredibles had lesser tantrums and he would crush their self esteem into dust. He treated people more like robots than human beings. These people were rarely allowed to go HOME and reducing grown men to tears had no affect on Jobs. (Would not be surprised if when one of his underlings finally downed a bottle of aspirin, the schmuck would turn his nose up and say the person was a bozo after all, and lament that his precious work would be delayed.)

 

[春夏秋鼕]

天才标准都相似，人渣起来各有各的不同
马非常激进，感兴趣的领域全有关颠覆式技术，周围有一堆崇拜他的风投人，又正值盛年，绝不会止步于电动车、火箭、卫星通信

 

[welcomelm]

musk 冒险精神确实比较强， 从根本上来说，冒险是人类最重要的本质，包含走出非洲，哥伦布发现新大陆，到未来走出地球移民火星等，都是人类冒险发展进步的过程

所以我说下次发现新大陆的很可能还是老外。

 

[billwanhua]

所以我说下次发现新大陆的很可能还是老外。

肯定的，贝秃子说了，地球大概容量是1千亿人，太阳系1万亿，人口多了，按照几率就会有1千个天才爱因斯坦，冒险家是人类未来发展的必须途径。musk 也说人类必须尽可能多繁殖，而且不能长寿。

 

[2005]

牛人道德上都可以归入人渣一类，首先他们是天才，会对别人特别是下属按他们自己水准，有不耐心和不容纳普通人错误的情况，其次，道德高的人竞争力不强，在商场上更容易被淘汰。
网上很多有关jobs 是jerk的讨论。贝秃子也是个大恶人。当然老马更恶。

特别出名的jobs拒绝付女儿钱（有法庭判决）：
He would not acknowledge his daughter was his until a DNA test and a court order forced him to pay alimony. While his daughter and her mother were impoverished, he was living the high life with expensive cars and whatever he wanted with a snap of his fingers. He did not even bother to see her. At one point she did move in with him, but he never hugged her or paid any attention to her and when she asked for a kiss good night they just laughed at her.

He claimed that those who worked for him were "not used to working in an environment of excellence," but the bigger truth is that the environment he created at Apple bore more of a resemblance to a boat full of galley slaves. People there were worked into nervous breakdowns and heart attacks. According to the man himself, the world could be split between the A-levels and the bozos. Only one kind was welcome at Apple. If he had two teams where one was not delivering what he wanted, well, Jack Jack from the Incredibles had lesser tantrums and he would crush their self esteem into dust. He treated people more like robots than human beings. These people were rarely allowed to go HOME and reducing grown men to tears had no affect on Jobs. (Would not be surprised if when one of his underlings finally downed a bottle of aspirin, the schmuck would turn his nose up and say the person was a bozo after all, and lament that his precious work would be delayed.)

老贝再有钱，我们也只是把他看作一个以赚钱为第一目标的成功的商人。jobs远不如老贝有钱，没有谁把老贝看作是跟jobs一个level的天才。

天才私德差都不算什么，但在我们常人眼里他们第一目标应该致力于追求更完美的技术和创新，结果老马忽然来这么几出哗众取宠般的对财富的看重，一下子就掉到跟老贝一个级别的追求了。

 

[billwanhua]

老贝再有钱，我们也只是把他看作一个以赚钱为第一目标的成功的商人。jobs远不如老贝有钱，没有谁把老贝看作是跟jobs一个level的天才。

天才私德差都不算什么，但在我们常人眼里他们第一目标应该致力于追求更完美的技术和创新，结果老马忽然来这么几出哗众取宠般的对财富的看重，一下子就掉到跟老贝一个级别的追求了。

你看到他对财富的追求，别人可能会看到他为了达到创新和发展而需要财富来实现他的抱负和越大目标。不是有个富人说自己死后要把财富给他去创造更多财富。

他对贝秃子的讽刺？你读读Jobs自传对Bill Gates的评价：

In the biography "Steve Jobs," author Walter Isaacson quotes Jobs saying of Gates: "Bill is basically unimaginative and has never invented anything, which is why I think he's more comfortable now in philanthropy than technology. He just shamelessly ripped off other people's ideas."

嘲笑别人做慈善事业？私德？这帮人谁把别人放眼里？

 

[春夏秋鼕]

贝索斯的亚马逊也有非凡的创新，苹果主要生产消费级产品，大众消费者能直接享受感知其科技成就，而亚马逊开启的云计算用户主要来自企业，不容易被广大消费者了解，但其对提高全社会资源的效率，有不可估量作用，在我看来，它们分量等同

 

[welcomelm]

贝索斯的亚马逊也有非凡的创新，苹果主要生产消费级产品，大众消费者能直接享受感知其科技成就，而亚马逊开启的云计算用户主要来自企业，不容易被广大消费者了解，但其对提高全社会资源的效率，有不可估量作用，在我看来，它们分量等同

亚麻那些创新和贝秃子有多大关系就不得而知了。亚麻是他草创的，但是云是很后来的事了。

 

[billwanhua]

贝索斯的亚马逊也有非凡的创新，苹果主要生产消费级产品，大众消费者能直接享受感知其科技成就，而亚马逊开启的云计算用户主要来自企业，不容易被广大消费者了解，但其对提高全社会资源的效率，有不可估量作用，在我看来，它们分量等同

苹果主要是设计和市场，电脑鼠标是抄施乐的，智能手机是抄RIM，真正创新可能就是手机触摸屏

 

[春夏秋鼕]

亚麻那些创新和贝秃子有多大关系就不得而知了。亚麻是他草创的，但是云是很后来的事了。

CEO都是前瞻与决策，乔布斯不一定亲自创造触摸屏

 

[春夏秋鼕]

苹果主要是设计和市场，电脑鼠标是抄施乐的，智能手机是抄RIM，真正创新可能就是手机触摸屏

触摸屏、IOS和应用商店，RIM当时的操作系统比起IOS太简陋

 

[奶夕]

马屎壳在研发手机了。