马斯克痛批F-35在无人机时代“过时”

metropolis

本站元老
注册
2010-12-10
消息
8,902
荣誉分数
1,757
声望点数
323
202411/2809:23:27

来源:国际军情

美媒:马斯克痛批F-35在无人机时代“过时”​


美国《纽约邮报》网站11月25日发表了题为《在准备削减联邦开支之际,埃隆·马斯克抨击“白痴”制造昂贵的F-35战斗机》的报道,全文编译如下:

埃隆·马斯克即将领导美国新成立的政府效率部,在马斯克准备就如何削减联邦开支向白宫提建议之际,他再次辱骂五角大楼的F-35项目。

这名支持候任总统特朗普的亿万富翁24日在X平台上发帖,抨击那些继续制造F-35等载人战斗机的人为“白痴”。

身为特斯拉和太空探索技术公司首席执行官的马斯克25日在另一篇帖子中加大了批评的火力。

他写道:“F-35的设计在满足需求层面就不可行,因为它要满足太多人的太多需求,这使其昂贵且复杂。所谓样样通,样样松,成功从来都不在其可能出现的结果之列。”

马斯克补充说:“在无人机时代,载人战斗机已经过时了,后者只会害死飞行员。”

长期以来,马斯克一直声称洛克希德-马丁公司生产的载人战斗机即将被淘汰,认为无人机战争才是未来的趋势。具体来说,他呼吁研发由人类遥控、具有自主机动能力的战斗机。

马斯克是在准备向白宫提出关于大规模削减联邦开支的建议之际,再次对F-35战斗机发起抨击的。目前尚不清楚五角大楼的F-35项目——迄今为止最昂贵的战斗机项目——是否会成为马斯克削减政府成本议程的牺牲品。

据彭博新闻社报道,五角大楼F-35项目的成本与上次评估时相比上涨了10%,达到约4850亿美元。

美国政府已向其军队和盟国交付了约1000架F-35喷气式战斗机。按照计划,在整个生命周期内F-35将生产3000架以上。

根据美国政府问责局的数据,该战机预计将服役至2088年,整个项目预计耗资超过2万亿美元。

马斯克此前曾表示,政府效率部可以从联邦预算中削减“至少2万亿美元”。

马斯克和政府效率部联合负责人维韦克·拉马斯瓦米在为《华尔街日报》撰写的一篇评论文章中将矛头对准了美国国防部。

两人写道:“五角大楼最近连续第7次未能通过审计,这表明该机构领导层对其如何使用8000多亿美元的年度预算几乎一无所知。”

当然,马斯克对F-35战斗机尤为不满。24日,马斯克在X平台上发表的一篇帖子中写道:“这是一个糟糕的设计。”在另一篇帖子中,马斯克写道:“载人战斗机是延长导弹射程或投掷炸弹的低效方式。可重复使用的无人机不但可以做到这一点,还没有人类飞行员的一切开销。而且,如果对方拥有先进的地对空导弹或无人机,那么战斗机很快会被击落,俄乌冲突就证明了这一点。”

马斯克说,“击落战斗机容易得让人发笑”,因为战斗机的“隐形”能力可以被基础人工智能和高灵敏度相机所击败。

科技初创企业越来越多地开始挑战五角大楼的几家大型供应商,如洛克希德-马丁公司和通用动力公司。这些企业几十年来赚得盆满钵满,而且常常是通过没有竞标的合同实现的。(编译/卿松竹)

 

Musk Revives F-35 Criticism, but Could It Actually Lead to Cuts Under Trump?​

Nov. 27, 2024 | By John A. Tirpak

Elon Musk—the SpaceX and Tesla founder tapped by President-elect Donald Trump to run a new commission dubbed the Department of Government Efficiency—thinks the F-35 fighter is an obsolete and poorly functioning weapon system whose mission is best overtaken by uncrewed aircraft.

Depending on the latitude given to Musk when Trump takes office in January, his view on the F-35 may carry major implications for the massive program, though Trump has been very complimentary of the fighter.

Musk offered his latest criticisms of the F-35 in a post on X, the social media site he owns. The fighter, he said, is a “jack of all trades, master of none” because it was “required to be too many things to too many people” and was the result of a “broken” requirements system. In a separate post, he referred to the jet as the “worst military value for money in history.”

“Success was never in the set of possible outcomes” for the fighter, he wrote, adding that “manned fighter jets are obsolete in the age of drones anyway. Will just get pilots killed.”


Musk’s comments are an extension of views he first expressed four years ago at AFA’s 2020 Air Warfare Symposium, where he shocked the audience by declaring that “the fighter jet era has passed.”

In a fireside chat at that conference, Musk said “locally autonomous drone warfare is where the future will be,” offering apologies to the attendees but insisting, “it’s simply what will occur.”

He also said the F-35 program would benefit from being placed in competition with drones employing a combination of remote control and onboard autonomy. But in such a competition, he wrote later on social media at the time, “the F-35 would have no chance.”

Senior Air Force officials and think-tankers at the time said Musk was putting too much faith in autonomous technology, and that there would always be a competitive advantage for the human mind in a dogfight. But since then, the Air Force has put increasing emphasis on autonomy, and the Collaborative Combat Aircraft program has risen to become the service’s key method to achieve affordable mass in air warfare.

And unlike in 2020, Musk is poised to potentially act on his critiques. In addition to becoming a close adviser to President-elect Trump, he is one of the heads of the unofficial “Department of Government Efficiency,” tasked with finding ways to slash billions from the federal budget.

The exact authorities and powers that Musk and his commission will have to reach that goal are still not completely clear, but some officials, including Democrats, have suggested the Pentagon’s budget is a prime place to go for such savings.

In response to a query from Air & Space Forces Magazine, the F-35 Joint Program Office defended the F-35 as a solid performer that has been adopted by 20 countries and is lauded by pilots as a technological leap over previous fighters.

The F-35s in service today “perform exceptionally well against the threat for which they were designed,” a JPO spokesperson said.

“Pilots continually emphasize that this is the fighter they want to take to war if called upon,” he said. “The air system’s international footprint amplifies the platform’s benefits, and it is the aircraft of choice for partners and allies.” The JPO noted that the F-35 serves with three U.S. military branches, seven international partner nations and 11 Foreign Military Sales customers, “and FMS interest continues to grow.” The JPO noted that, within 10 years, “there will be 700 F-35s in Europe, and only 60 of these will belong to the U.S.”

Asked to respond to Musk’s comments, a Lockheed Martin spokesperson said “As we did in his first term, we look forward to a strong working relationship with President Trump, his team, and also with the new Congress to strengthen our national defense. The F-35 is the most advanced, survivable and connected fighter aircraft in the world, a vital deterrent and the cornerstone of joint all-domain operations.”

The Air Force declined to comment on Musk’s F-35 posts.

If Musk does decide to push for cuts to the F-35 program, it isn’t clear how much or how soon that could happen. The JPO reached a handshake agreement with Lockheed Martin last week covering prices and payments for production Lots 18 and 19, but it is not yet a signed contract.

“We have reached an initial agreement as part of ongoing negotiations for the Lot 18/19 Air Vehicle Production Contract,” the JPO said, adding, “We will share the aircraft quantity and cost figures when a final agreement is reached.” Industry sources said that process could take several months; well into the beginning of the second Trump term, and potentially giving the incoming administration significant influence over the deal. The two lots are expected to cover an estimated 300 or so aircraft.

Any change would also have to get the approval of Congress, and Lockheed’s team has placed F-35 contracts in nearly every state. Many Republican members of Congress have voiced support for the program, especially in Texas, Georgia, and California, where most F-35 airframe work is done, and Utah, where the Air Force’s F-35 depot is located. Connecticut and Florida delegations are also staunch F-35 supporters, because its engine, the F135, is made by Pratt & Whitney in those states.

On top of that, it’s also unclear how much flexibility the government would have in curtailing the F-35 program, as it has a financial partnership with nine other countries to develop the fighter.

It’s also possible that the Trump administration does not want to cut the F-35, regardless of what Musk says. Trump himself has praised the F-35, mentioning it by name at several campaign rallies; calling it “beautiful” airplane that is “invisible” to radar and boasting that he bought “many, many” of the fighters during his first term. He has said the F-35 is “very special” and “it wins every time.”

The F-35’s strong record of foreign sales would also seem to be a selling point to Trump, who has consistently played up the importance of the weapons export business, even bucking domestic and international pressure in his first term over the killing of journalist Jamal Khashoggi by the Saudi government to say he wanted to proceed with a huge arms sale to the Saudis.

Trump also takes credit for obtaining big discounts on earlier lots of F-35s, inserting himself directly into negotiations with Lockheed’s leadership during his first term.

F-35 Readiness​

Musk’s post on X was in part a response to a story from Bloomberg quoting from a redacted report on the F-35 from the Director of Operational Test and Evaluation’s annual report in the spring. The report stated that the F-35’s reliability, maintainability and availability remain below the levels expected for it at this point in its service life. It also noted continuing issues with the F-35’s gun and its cyber defenses. These issues have resisted correction over the F-35 program’s 25-year history.

“Cyber threats are dynamic and thus require agile defense in depth,” the JPO said in response. “As such, the F-35 JPO aggressively maintains one of the most robust cybersecurity testing programs in DOD, which spans Developmental Test, Operational Test, and Sustainment. Results of all cyber tests are analyzed and prioritized for mitigation in a continuous cycle of assessing and improving, while the JPO actively seeks increasingly dedicated cyber test infrastructure.”

A spokesperson also said that the readiness issues pertaining to the F-35 during operational test are “not new or unknown.”

“We initiated the ‘War on Readiness’ and assembled a Fleet Readiness Team dedicated to understanding and addressing complex challenges that negatively affect fleet mission capability,” the spokesperson said. “The F-35 Executive Leadership Team is engaging directly with suppliers to ensure necessary focus is placed on top degraders affecting the fleet.”

Uncertain Future

In the final days of President Joe Biden’s administration, the Air Force is in the midst of rethinking its approach to air superiority. The Next-Generation Air Dominance manned fighter, long seen as the key to the future of air superiority, is under review, both for the technologies involved and their cost. Air Force Secretary Frank Kendall had previously suggest the fighter would cost “multiple hundreds of millions” of dollars each, but in September said he thinks it might be possible to pursue an alternative approach that could cut the price to that of the F-35.

If that proves feasible, the Air Force’s plans for the F-35 might radically change. The service has never wavered from its requirement—set in 2001—for 1,763 F-35s, but under the previous Trump administration, Air Force acquisition executive Will Roper suggested the end figure might be reduced to about 500 because of stubbornly high operating costs. Roper also pushed for a rolling series of NGAD-like aircraft built in small lots and succeeded every few years by aircraft with fresh technology. Kendall has voiced a similar approach to the CCA program, which shares its budget line item with NGAD.

The Air Force has taken delivery of about 450 F-35As so far.

 
The JPO noted that, within 10 years, “there will be 700 F-35s in Europe, and only 60 of these will belong to the U.S.”

10 年内,“欧洲将有 700 架 F-35,其中只有 60 架属于美国。”
 
看来美国把世界都带到坑里去了,北约全部都在换装f35

F35 就是个笑话。

其训练和起飞,高度依赖Link16作战数据链, 每次起飞,都需要临时向美国申请一个有时效的密码,同时要告知这次飞行的任务或者训练目的。

等于说北约各国花巨资买了一堆飞机在家里, 却不能按照自己的心意去使用,这些飞机的一举一动都在美国的控制之下。

退一万步说, 即便这些飞机花了巨资,只要能有作战效果, 还算是物有所值。

可惜现阶段所有的战机,在无人机群面前, 无一不是毫无还手之力。
 
The JPO noted that, within 10 years, “there will be 700 F-35s in Europe, and only 60 of these will belong to the U.S.”

10 年内,“欧洲将有 700 架 F-35,其中只有 60 架属于美国。”
这是谎言。

F35无论在谁手里, 都是在美国人手里。 因为每一次飞行都需要申请飞行系统的解锁密码。
 
这是谎言。

F35无论在谁手里, 都是在美国人手里。 因为每一次飞行都需要申请飞行系统的解锁密码。
不是我说的,

“Pilots continually emphasize that this is the fighter they want to take to war if called upon,” he said. “The air system’s international footprint amplifies the platform’s benefits, and it is the aircraft of choice for partners and allies.” The JPO noted that the F-35 serves with three U.S. military branches, seven international partner nations and 11 Foreign Military Sales customers, “and FMS interest continues to grow.” The JPO noted that, within 10 years, “there will be 700 F-35s in Europe, and only 60 of these will belong to the U.S.”

 
不是我说的,

“Pilots continually emphasize that this is the fighter they want to take to war if called upon,” he said. “The air system’s international footprint amplifies the platform’s benefits, and it is the aircraft of choice for partners and allies.” The JPO noted that the F-35 serves with three U.S. military branches, seven international partner nations and 11 Foreign Military Sales customers, “and FMS interest continues to grow.” The JPO noted that, within 10 years, “there will be 700 F-35s in Europe, and only 60 of these will belong to the U.S.”

我知道, 不是你说的, 我并没有说是你在撒谎。 我是说这种你有多少架f35, 我有多少f35,这种话其实是谎言。

因为没有数据链, 飞机无法起飞作战, 而数据链控制在美国手里。

等于说所有的F35都是美国的,只不过北约国家花了钱, 把一些飞机放在自己那里而已, 而且还要承担维护费用。
 
我知道, 不是你说的, 我并没有说是你在撒谎。 我是说这种你有多少架f35, 我有多少f35,这种话其实是谎言。

因为没有数据链, 飞机无法起飞作战, 而数据链控制在美国手里。

等于说所有的F35都是美国的,只不过北约国家花了钱, 把一些飞机放在自己那里而已, 而且还要承担维护费用。
这个不懂,只是看到高科技大佬360总裁周鸿祎赞扬马斯克的观点,美国和欧洲等盟国肯定是不会轻易放弃F35的,仍然大有市场,甚至有人认为马斯克是在砸军工复合体的市场,性命危矣。
 
美国国防部预算每年8000亿美金。。。背后涉及利益太多,想cut这部份,小心惹火烧身。。。
 
其训练和起飞,高度依赖Link16作战数据链, 每次起飞,都需要临时向美国申请一个有时效的密码,同时要告知这次飞行的任务或者训练目的。

我第一次听说这个。


美国人早就在搞远程控制,他们很习惯,很享受。这才是他们这么怕华为的原因,但是这让华为任正非一脸懵逼。
 
我第一次听说这个。


美国人早就在搞远程控制,他们很习惯,很享受。这才是他们这么怕华为的原因,但是这让华为任正非一脸懵逼。

华为搞不出可靠的远程控制?
 
华为搞不出可靠的远程控制?

华为的目的是赚钱。
如果夹在大国绞杀之间,搞远程控制,能够赚钱吗?
 
我第一次听说这个。


美国人早就在搞远程控制,他们很习惯,很享受。这才是他们这么怕华为的原因,但是这让华为任正非一脸懵逼。
你没听说并不代表不存在。
 
后退
顶部