夜我们都是王柴(Vang Chai). Brave guy!

[silverwater]

夜我们都是王柴(Vang Chai). Brave guy!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

今夜我们都是王柴(Vang Chai)
ZT

Vang在美国属于HMONG PEOPLE,也就是美籍苗人,来自于老挝.70年代,作为老挝的少数民族
,跟美军的秘密部队合作,打击老挝境内的越南共产主义势力.后来美国越战失败(或者叫战
略撤出),苗人受到当地政府的迫害,许多人作为难民逃到泰国等非社会主义国家.苗人逐渐
被美国遗忘,直到90年代,这部分苗人的苦难得到美国新闻界的注意,而后逐步有大约7.5万
人作为难民被美国接受,其中大部分在MINNESOTA,尤以ST PAUL最为集中.
苗人起源于中国,历史有分支逐渐西迁,现在中国的苗族人口739万；泰国14万；越南40万
；老挝20万.从起人种和文化上将,是典型的中华民族. 他们跟贵州的苗族区别很小.这一
点从他们的语言,服饰,可以看出.苗族是一个比较顽强拼搏的民族,在中国历史的民族斗争
中,常常受到冲击,被驱赶到贫瘠的山地和东南亚一代,但起民族性和文化延续至今,令人敬
佩.在美国的HMONG PEOPLE,许多都是出身贫苦的文盲,受到战争的磨难,但他们移民美国的
短短时间,却表现顽强的生命力和适应能力,并且有蓬勃发展之势.When they arrived
here, the Hmong were the least westernized, most unprepared for life in the
United States of all the Southeast Asian refugee groups," said Toyo Biddle,
erly of the federal Office of Refugee Resettlement, who during the 1980s
was the primary official overseeing that transition. "What they've achieved
since then is really remarkable." Today, thousands of Hmong-Americans have
earned college degrees. Newly literate, Hmong writers are producing a growing
body of literature. Hmong-Americans own shopping malls, restaurants, recording
studios, and ginseng and poultry farms. In Minnesota, more than half of the
state's 10,000 or so Hmong families own their homes.好象HMONG人在WISCONSIN发展
也不错,拥有西洋参产地.从心理上,我愿意当HMONG PEOPLE为CHINESE的至亲(文化和血缘
上的).VANG其实就是WANG.
如果确认VANG自卫前,受到类似""的辱骂和枪支威胁,我认为那些REDNECK WHITE
TRASH死得活该.
我认为,CHINESE应该包含中国境内的所有民族,这个概念可以延续到主民族仍留在国内的
海外分支(如果这个分支比较完整地保存了其民族文化).移民美国的老挝苗人就是一个最
好的代表.
我觉得在美华人界应该在这个时候出面,保护VANG的合法权利,将事实搞清楚.
我看最近的报道都在暗示VANG的凶残,淡化被杀者的责任.比如:说对方只有一只枪(设想一
下:你跟打起来,被开了枪,你呼叫大本营来支援,他们可能空手而来吗-----在知道两方交
火的情况下)? 有个报道还提到有妇女和孩子被杀,其实有个20岁的成年人.好象法官目前
禁止第三者(大概除了家人)访问VANG,反而大肆渲染被杀者的悲情.
美国是个自以为是的民族,他们相信美国是上帝所选的正义国家,那些保守的美国人更是认
为他们的一切都是正义的,天经地义的.美国其实欠HMONG人太多了.另一个典型的例子就是
美军攻克MANILA前,派了突击队在菲律宾游击队的帮助下,营救了一个很大的美国平民战俘
营.但美国大兵保护美国人撤退了,根本没想FILIPINO,结果JAPS回来报仇,血洗了战俘营附
近的村庄和所有帮助过美国人的人,将平民赶到一个教堂,全部烧死.其它虐杀方式我不说
你也能想到.
卢刚和VANG这样的事是悲剧.但这些悲剧也给美国社会一个警告.
士可杀不可辱.要的就是这份尊严.
VANG给美国人上了很好的一课.
大家要学得TOUGH起来.这样的教训太多了(对待JAPS就是一个.中国的无数善意顶个P用,鬼
子不但不领情,还得寸进尺,倒打一耙.近几年在中国面前裤裆也不关,还弄个小二乱晃.胡
哥看不下去了,那些SB听不懂人话,就让JAPS听听老式汉级的罗旋桨声,鬼子这次耳朵也好
用了,JJ马上阮小二吴用了).
CHINESE NEED LEARN TO KICK SOME BAD ASS.

关于AMERICAN HMONG,大家可以找相关的文章看看.我记得在SMITHSONIAN 9月一期上看到
一篇文章.PBS好象也有他们的专题.
CHINESE HMONG>LAOS HMONG>AMERICAN HMONG.
HMONG完全是CHINESE基因,与东南亚的土著完全不同.大家看看VANG有哪点不象CHINESE?

 

[soldier]

HAYWARD, Wis. (AP) - A man suspected in the killings of six hunters told investigators he began firing after a shot was fired at him and some of the victims called him racially derogatory names, according to documents filed Tuesday.

A judge set bail at $2.5 million for Chai Vang, 36, of St. Paul, Minn., who is suspected in the killings Sunday of six deer hunters and the wounding of two others. Bail was set after investigators filed documents arguing there was probable cause to hold Vang in the shootings. No charges had been filed.

Vang, a Hmong immigrant from Laos, was arrested Sunday about four hours after the shootings as he emerged from the woods with his empty SKS 7.62-mm semiautomatic rifle.

Sawyer County Sheriff Jim Meier said a dispute over Vang's use of a tree stand - a raised platform used by hunters - on private property preceded the gunfire.

Vang told investigators he didn't realize he was on private property when he climbed the tree stand, according to the probable-cause statement released Tuesday. The county has thousands of hectares of public hunting land, some of it "virtually around" the private property where the shooting occurred, Meier has said.

A hunter approached and told Vang he was on private property, and Vang started to leave as other hunters approached, the statement said. Vang said the hunters surrounded him and some called him racial slurs.

Vang said he started walking away but looked back to see the first hunter point his rifle at him and then fire a shot that hit the ground nine to 12 metres behind him, the statement said.

Vang told investigators that's when he started firing at the group, according to the statement.

Five people died at the scene and a sixth died Monday in a hospital. Two others were wounded. The dead were identified as the landowner, Robert Crotteau, 42; his son Joey, 20; Al Laski, 43; Mark Roidt, 28; Jessica Willers, 27; and Denny Drew, 55, who died Monday in hospital. Willers' father, Terry Willers, remained hospitalized Tuesday in fair condition, while the other wounded hunter was released.

Officials said the victims were part of a group of 14 or 15 who made their opening-weekend trip to the 1.5-square-kilometre property an annual tradition

According to an account Meier gave Monday, two or three hunters spotted a man in a hunting platform on Crotteau's land, then radioed back to the rest of the party at a nearby cabin and were told no one should be there. Meier did not indicate who the account came from.

One of the men asked the intruder to leave, while Crotteau and the others in the cabin hopped on their all-terrain vehicles and headed to the scene, according to the account.

"The suspect got down from the deer stand, walked 40 yards (about 35 metres), fiddled with his rifle. He took the scope off his rifle, he turned and he opened fire on the group," Meier said.

He was "chasing after them and killing them," Deputy Tim Zeigle said. "He hunted them down."

Authorities have said there was only one firearm among the eight hunters and it was unclear whether anyone returned fire.

Some Hmong leaders questioned whether racial differences may have figured in the shootings.

There have been previous clashes between Southeast Asian and white hunters in the region. Residents of the Birchwood area, about 190 kilometres northeast of the Twin Cities, have complained that the Hmong do not understand the concept of private property and hunt wherever they see fit.

Sang Vang said his brother has lived in the United States for more than 20 years and is a U.S. army veteran.

Vang's arrest made some Hmong citizens in his hometown fearful of a backlash. Hmong leaders in St. Paul condemned the shootings Tuesday and offered condolences to victims' families.

"What happened in Wisconsin is in no way representative of the Hmong people and what they stand for," said Cha Vang, who said he was representing "the greater law-abiding Hmong community." He is no relation to Chai Vang.

About 24,000 Hmong live in St. Paul, the highest concentration of any city in the U.S.

Minneapolis police said they arrested Chai Vang on Christmas Eve 2001 after he waved a gun and threatened to kill his wife. No charge was filed because she didn't co-operate with authorities, spokesman Ron Reier said.

St. Paul police said there had been two domestic violence calls to his home in the past year, but both were resolved without incident.

 

[kitaro]

强烈支持，神枪手。

 

[neverforget]

最初由 silverwater 发布
夜我们都是王柴(Vang Chai). Brave guy!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

今夜我们都是王柴(Vang Chai)
ZT

Vang在美国属于HMONG PEOPLE,也就是美籍苗人,来自于老挝.70年代,作为老挝的少数民族
,跟美军的秘密部队合作,打击老挝境内的越南共产主义势力.后来美国越战失败(或者叫战
略撤出),苗人受到当地政府的迫害,许多人作为难民逃到泰国等非社会主义国家.苗人逐渐
被美国遗忘,直到90年代,这部分苗人的苦难得到美国新闻界的注意,而后逐步有大约7.5万
人作为难民被美国接受,其中大部分在MINNESOTA,尤以ST PAUL最为集中.
苗人起源于中国,历史有分支逐渐西迁,现在中国的苗族人口739万；泰国14万；越南40万
；老挝20万.从起人种和文化上将,是典型的中华民族. 他们跟贵州的苗族区别很小.这一
点从他们的语言,服饰,可以看出.苗族是一个比较顽强拼搏的民族,在中国历史的民族斗争
中,常常受到冲击,被驱赶到贫瘠的山地和东南亚一代,但起民族性和文化延续至今,令人敬
佩.在美国的HMONG PEOPLE,许多都是出身贫苦的文盲,受到战争的磨难,但他们移民美国的
短短时间,却表现顽强的生命力和适应能力,并且有蓬勃发展之势.When they arrived
here, the Hmong were the least westernized, most unprepared for life in the
United States of all the Southeast Asian refugee groups," said Toyo Biddle,
erly of the federal Office of Refugee Resettlement, who during the 1980s
was the primary official overseeing that transition. "What they've achieved
since then is really remarkable." Today, thousands of Hmong-Americans have
earned college degrees. Newly literate, Hmong writers are producing a growing
body of literature. Hmong-Americans own shopping malls, restaurants, recording
studios, and ginseng and poultry farms. In Minnesota, more than half of the
state's 10,000 or so Hmong families own their homes.好象HMONG人在WISCONSIN发展
也不错,拥有西洋参产地.从心理上,我愿意当HMONG PEOPLE为CHINESE的至亲(文化和血缘
上的).VANG其实就是WANG.
如果确认VANG自卫前,受到类似""的辱骂和枪支威胁,我认为那些REDNECK WHITE
TRASH死得活该.
我认为,CHINESE应该包含中国境内的所有民族,这个概念可以延续到主民族仍留在国内的
海外分支(如果这个分支比较完整地保存了其民族文化).移民美国的老挝苗人就是一个最
好的代表.
我觉得在美华人界应该在这个时候出面,保护VANG的合法权利,将事实搞清楚.
我看最近的报道都在暗示VANG的凶残,淡化被杀者的责任.比如:说对方只有一只枪(设想一
下:你跟打起来,被开了枪,你呼叫大本营来支援,他们可能空手而来吗-----在知道两方交
火的情况下)? 有个报道还提到有妇女和孩子被杀,其实有个20岁的成年人.好象法官目前
禁止第三者(大概除了家人)访问VANG,反而大肆渲染被杀者的悲情.
美国是个自以为是的民族,他们相信美国是上帝所选的正义国家,那些保守的美国人更是认
为他们的一切都是正义的,天经地义的.美国其实欠HMONG人太多了.另一个典型的例子就是
美军攻克MANILA前,派了突击队在菲律宾游击队的帮助下,营救了一个很大的美国平民战俘
营.但美国大兵保护美国人撤退了,根本没想FILIPINO,结果JAPS回来报仇,血洗了战俘营附
近的村庄和所有帮助过美国人的人,将平民赶到一个教堂,全部烧死.其它虐杀方式我不说
你也能想到.
卢刚和VANG这样的事是悲剧.但这些悲剧也给美国社会一个警告.
士可杀不可辱.要的就是这份尊严.
VANG给美国人上了很好的一课.
大家要学得TOUGH起来.这样的教训太多了(对待JAPS就是一个.中国的无数善意顶个P用,鬼
子不但不领情,还得寸进尺,倒打一耙.近几年在中国面前裤裆也不关,还弄个小二乱晃.胡
哥看不下去了,那些SB听不懂人话,就让JAPS听听老式汉级的罗旋桨声,鬼子这次耳朵也好
用了,JJ马上阮小二吴用了).
CHINESE NEED LEARN TO KICK SOME BAD ASS.

关于AMERICAN HMONG,大家可以找相关的文章看看.我记得在SMITHSONIAN 9月一期上看到
一篇文章.PBS好象也有他们的专题.
CHINESE HMONG>LAOS HMONG>AMERICAN HMONG.
HMONG完全是CHINESE基因,与东南亚的土著完全不同.大家看看VANG有哪点不象CHINESE?

Ding!

 

[686CPU]

up

 

[soldier]

我估计，那几个白人开始的时候肯定对Vang出语不逊，Vang肯定也回了几句嘴。但是一向唯唯诺诺的亚洲人的回嘴可能很出乎几个种族主义者的意料，更激怒了人多势众的那几个家伙，于是他们就向Vang开了一枪，但我觉得他们未必是想打死Vang，而是吓唬他，但是当过兵的Vang立即还击，打死了六个，打伤了多个种族主义者。

总之，Vang有自卫的权力，而那几个家伙纯属找死，也可能是诈骗保险金。

 

[lifeisfun]

最初由 soldier 发布
我估计，那几个白人开始的时候肯定对Vang出语不逊，Vang肯定也回了几句嘴。但是一向唯唯诺诺的亚洲人的回嘴可能很出乎几个种族主义者的意料，更激怒了人多势众的那几个家伙，于是他们就向Vang开了一枪，但我觉得他们未必是想打死Vang，而是吓唬他，但是当过兵的Vang立即还击，打死了六个，打伤了多个种族主义者。

总之，Vang有自卫的权力，而那几个家伙纯属找死，也可能是诈骗保险金。

killing only means that you are weak. Don't put your guessing here and try to relate this to racism.

 

[neverforget]

最初由 soldier 发布
我估计，那几个白人开始的时候肯定对Vang出语不逊，Vang肯定也回了几句嘴。但是一向唯唯诺诺的亚洲人的回嘴可能很出乎几个种族主义者的意料，更激怒了人多势众的那几个家伙，于是他们就向Vang开了一枪，但我觉得他们未必是想打死Vang，而是吓唬他，但是当过兵的Vang立即还击，打死了六个，打伤了多个种族主义者。

总之，Vang有自卫的权力，而那几个家伙纯属找死，也可能是诈骗保险金。

Reasonable analysis!, usually immigrant will not start the disput first, esp most of asian people.

 

[呆呆虫]

最初由 soldier 发布
我估计，那几个白人开始的时候肯定对Vang出语不逊，Vang肯定也回了几句嘴。但是一向唯唯诺诺的亚洲人的回嘴可能很出乎几个种族主义者的意料，更激怒了人多势众的那几个家伙，于是他们就向Vang开了一枪，但我觉得他们未必是想打死Vang，而是吓唬他，但是当过兵的Vang立即还击，打死了六个，打伤了多个种族主义者。

总之，Vang有自卫的权力，而那几个家伙纯属找死，也可能是诈骗保险金。

强烈要求追究那几个被打死的垃圾的责任！！！

 

[燃冰]

我觉得作者有病,这又不是什么光荣,你非要把它套在中国人头上你就爽了.你他妈变态!

 

[soldier]

最初由 燃冰 发布
我觉得作者有病,这又不是什么光荣,你非要把它套在中国人头上你就爽了.你他妈变态!

针对种族的歧视和暴力，往往是根据肤色，而不是国籍，在这点上，亚洲人是一体的(如果有人把日本排除出去，我不反对)。

从一些后续报导来看，当时那群种族主义者是拿他当中国人来欺负的，他们骂Vang Chai是Chink，你知道Chink是什么意思吗?

 

[soldier]

[ZT] 天泽：猎鹿人启示录 -- 威斯康新州亚裔杀人案

最近在威斯康新州发生的猎鹿枪击案在媒体上展开的过程，耐人寻味。

最初的报道很简单，猎鹿人发生争执，互相开枪，五死三伤。除了死亡人数之外，好象没有特别震惊或抓眼球的地方。

然后出现了杀人者的名字，Chai Vang，原国籍没有点明。CBS报道为Chai Wang，那就是暗指华裔了。故事全部是被杀一方的叙述：他们发现自己的私人掺望台有人未经许可占用，于是让他离开。这个人下来，走了四十码，然后突然转身扫射。然后还引用当地土著酒吧老板的话说：一个伟大的猎鹿活动出现这样的悲剧，真是很悲哀的事。这些老外来了，从来不管是公地还是私地，到处乱打猎。

我不知道猎鹿活动伟大在哪儿。但红脖子老板的其它话我都听明白了：这些老外过来住在本来属于我们的土地，不懂规矩，违法乱纪，居然还杀人！

我想，这Chai Vang肯定是有病。占了人家的私人掺望台不说，对方十几个人七八条枪，和胡司令的队伍一样强大，居然二话不说转身就开枪！天底下哪儿有这样丧心病狂的冷血疯狗！

差点我就要和当地红脖子兄弟一起把亚裔移民赶出去了。

不过呢，我心底里偷偷的也不禁佩服这疯子。那些红脖子猎鹿人大都是老猎手，双方枪战，居然一个人干掉八个，自己毛发无损，大摇大摆走出树林。

然后又出新故事了。是Chai Vang对警察的自述：他不知道那片地方是私人的，有人过来，干他走，而且用极为污辱人的种族歧视语言（Gook, Chink, F###ing Asian）骂他。他走出一百来英尺之后，后面有人开枪，子弹从他身边飞过，然后他转身开枪。中国造半自动步枪，装20 发子弹，没法“扫射”。据说猎鹿人不大喜欢用这种枪，因为威力不够。

哦，现在这个故事才象真的了。前一个版本有点象原来小人书说日本鬼子或美国鬼子的味道，坏人简单不是人，干坏事不需要任何动机。从不看小人书以后，任何人任何时候跟我讲这样的故事，我马上自动怀疑其真实性。

现在我忍不住想，如果是我的话，事情会怎样呢？

我打过猎。山上树林子里，公地私地没人围篱笆做标记。狩猎人走错地方是常事，除非是常年在本地打猎，和人交流或者用排错法把这些范围弄清楚。如果主人告诉我说这是他的私地，我会向他道歉，解释是无意冒犯，向他打听公地在哪儿，走开接着玩。

如果他气势汹汹，还骂我Gook, Chink, F###ing Asian呢？

我真不知道会作何反应。

我知道的是，射击场、猎场上，所有的人都非常礼貌小心，枪口永远指地或指天，尤其是向别人走近的时候。如果有人没注意，枪口指着你的方向，你可以而且应该马上明确指出。在我遇到的所有这样情况，对方都会马上把枪口放下并道歉。

原因很简单，大家都有枪，避免误会、事故。

如果七八个人围上来，还骂人，那么其用意再明白不过：就是要侮辱你一把，而且拿定你是个松包，不敢怎么样。

当然，不管怎么说，你侵犯了别人私地，理亏。在我可以想象的最理性优秀的表现下，我会先道歉，解释不是有意而为，说明马上就离开，然后示意性地掂掂手里的枪，冷静地警告他们这些词语是很污辱人的，过分了。

然后，如果我刚走一百英尺就有子弹从我身边飞过呢？

废话，我只能就地转身卧倒还击。因为前面的背景已经很明确，对方不怀好意，而且有冲突准备。

枪战这种游戏很特别，一旦开始，那就只能全部结束，直到一方完全丧失打击能力，或者全部放下武器求饶。

当然，Chai Vang自述曾经追杀一个手里没枪的人，这就过分了。

不过如果你身处那样的环境下，你能保证你的一切行为都是理性冷静的吗？

如果你能，那你显然不是人。

您是哪年的产品？保修证什么时候过期？

无论如何，杀人是件糟糕透顶的事。

但是，在这件事上，我只能公开地、无保留地佩服旺柴兄弟的胆量和本事！

旺柴兄弟赴刑场的路上，我会为他干一杯。

不过也不一定。事后的故事也很蹊跷。目前旺柴兄弟被扣押，但没有起诉。他对警察的自述，显然没有律师在场。这是非法供词，在法庭上不成立。也许警察根本无法起诉。

最后有一点让我稍微有一点震惊。你注意到没有？不管旺柴兄弟是老挝人还是华人还是老挝华人，红脖子们骂的是Chink，特指华人的侮辱性用词。

红脖子们有一点很可爱，他们崇拜强者。

希望以后红脖子们不会见到一个亚洲人就以为是好欺负的。

彭天泽

转自《彼岸论坛》

 

[京华倦客]

大体没有什么太多问题...

不过这跟卢刚那通子事儿... 扯不上关系吧...

 

[不戒]

好，这不是什么丢人的事儿 :blink: