买股票是在RRSP里面好还是外面好？

[qwer]

在RRSP里面的钱如买股票的话，其收益，包括分红，交易收益（低买高卖），将来都要100%算做收入上个人所得税，而在RRSP以外的钱买股票的话，分红不知道，交易收入算资本增值，只有50%算做收入上个人所得税，只是现在收入高，税率高些，比如46%，那么将来退休后，税率也不会低于23%吧。看来还是现在上税好。各有什么优缺点？如果不是股票，是基金呢？

 

[挺傻]

原则上讲，RRSP的钱是将来用作养老的。按现在的政策规定，到你69岁需要转到RRIF计划上去（转到RRIF不收税，如果你不转而全部取出去那就要根据你取出的数额收了，最高能到50％）。转到这个计划从第二年起，你就必须每月从里面取出规定了最低限的金额，这个取出的金额是要上税的。不过设想你70岁的时候，你的税率会是多少呢？你年收入是不是会到23％的税率，这个要根据你现在的工资水平，你的pension，你的各种收入来综合计算了，每个人都不一样。你简单的计算一下会有一个大致的估计了。

RRSP里买股票的一个好处我认为就是投资的长久性。因为对于投资者（而不是投机者）来说，股票交易是需要相对长的时间的。RRSP我们现在买了都要保留很多年才到真正退休的时间，稳健一点的操作，这么长的horizon，起码抵御个通货膨胀，有些升值是没啥问题。而且在RRSP里投资的升值就DEFERR税的，这样你可利用的原始资本就会没什么损耗。
如果你用RRSP外的钱买股票，首先要是闲置不用的钱，而且是税后的。获得了收益要当年上税，减少了增值资本的积累。当然，如果你有很多闲置不用的钱在RRSP以外，当然可以用来投资。投资的时候也并非只能盯着股票一种，很多种的选择在尽量避免风险的情况下获得最大化的收益。

 

[qwer]

谢谢啦，看来RRSP 里外是两种不同的东西，不好直接比较。
不如把问题换成，RRSP 里面的钱如何投资，毕竟很久以后才用，
通货膨胀也可能有10倍，又受RRSP的规则限制，不太好想清楚。

 

[挺傻]

RRSP里面投资方式有一般的高利息储蓄，GIC，mutual fund。如果self directed RRSP帐户（建议1万5以上的或者有比较大的投资把握的再用，不然还要交年费），就可以买股票，买各种基金。但是对于外国股票和基金都有30％的限制范围。

对于购买基金，我认为还是那些ASSET ALLOCATION的FUND比较好，但是一般都有一个最低投资数额，起点比一般基金高，比如有的要3万，有的要5万，但是通过历史记录，ASSET ALLOCATION因为本身有很好的diversification,包括了多种投资形式，每种形式下也有不同的组合，所以在经济DOWNTURN的时候也能有不错的投资表现。另外就是必须要根据你自己的INVESTOR REALITY来分析，每个人有不同的适应情况。如果你想要一个你个性化的方案，需要和你的投资顾问去谈，他们会给你做分析然后会给你提供适合你的方案。

 

[吾言]

I won't use the money in my RSP for stock trading unless I am sure the return. Because you won't be able to claim any capital losses in your RSP. And for money out of RSP, I probably use them more aggressively to pursue a better return.

You pay tax of your RSP only when you make withdraws from it. The rate will dependant your annual income the year the withdraws occur. And I believe your income will be much lower than your current income, therefor you will be paying much less tax. For that reason, maximazing RSP contributions is my first priority.

 

[挺傻]

最初由 吾言 发布
I You pay tax of your RSP only when you make withdraws from it. The rate will dependant your annual income the year the withdraws occur.

我想说明的是，你取RRSP钱的税率是固定的，和你当年的收入没有关系，只和你取出来的钱数有关系。
CRA可以允许tax free只在两种情况下，一个是federal home buyers plan, 还有一个是life long learning plan.
如果要是取出来RRSP的钱，原则上并不是随便都可以取的，一般需要在特定情况下，比如shortened life expectancy, plans with small balances and financial hardship, among others. 如果取出来的话，那些详细的原因和理由也必须提交的。
withholding tax on RRSP:
taxable amount canada (expect Quebec) Quebec
( provincial and federal)
up to $5,000 10% 21%
$5,000.01-$15,000 20% 30%
more than $15,000 30% 35%


If you are a non resident of canada, income tax is currently withheld at rates that vary by country, as stipulated by treaty agreements with canada.

 

[吾言]

What you are talking about is the withholding rate when you make withdraws from RRSP. The actual tax rate will be determined by your annual total income which also includes your withdraws. Please correct me if I was mistaken.

And I remember had read somewhere on CRA's documents, there no restriction on making withdraws from an RSP. Of course, you will lose the tax shelter of the money you withdraw. The only two exception are HBP and LLP, which require you repay your RSP within certain period.

 

[shusheng]

Only restriction, you need 3 month before you can withdraw it. (Is this a bank rule or a CRA rule?)

 

[qwer]

最初由 吾言 发布
What you are talking about is the withholding rate when you make withdraws from RRSP. The actual tax rate will be determined by your annual total income which also includes your withdraws. Please correct me if I was mistaken.

And I remember had read somewhere on CRA's documents, there no restriction on making withdraws from an RSP. Of course, you will lose the tax shelter of the money you withdraw. The only two exception are HBP and LLP, which require you repay your RSP within certain period.

我的情况是：公司给买的RRSP是lock in的，不能取出来。
自己在银行买的，如不考虑税务问题，可以去出来，要安当年收入上税。
如买房子或上学取出RRSP,RRSP要在里面90天以上，
才可以减税，以后要还。

RRSP是税前的钱，如将来退休了，取出来的钱是早晚要上税的，好像是按当时的收入，银行事先扣下的钱就象发工资时先扣了税一样，税务局为了自己安全。
我们有个同事的妈妈(老外)，退休后国家给1500多/月。
所以你想，如果你每年
取出2万的话，税至少也有23%吧。

 

[吾言]

RSP是所谓的延税计划. 放在RSP里遑是免税的, RSP所产生的增值也是免税的, 只到你WITHDRAW的时候. 这是它的优势, 也是它设计时的目的.

假设年Capital Gain为10%, 投资周期为30年.
在RSP中, 期终你的收益是1.1^30=17.45
不放在RSP中, 设你的税率是23%, 每年的实际收益为5%+5%(1-23%)=8.85%, 期终的收益是1.0885^30=12.73

假设RSP WITHDRAW的税率是23%, 17.45*(1-23%)=13.44

13.44 vs 12.73,

你会选那一种投资方式?

上面的只计算了最低税率, 未考虑RSP供款退税.

 

[挺傻]

最初由 吾言 发布
What you are talking about is the withholding rate when you make withdraws from RRSP. The actual tax rate will be determined by your annual total income which also includes your withdraws. Please correct me if I was mistaken.

And I remember had read somewhere on CRA's documents, there no restriction on making withdraws from an RSP. Of course, you will lose the tax shelter of the money you withdraw. The only two exception are HBP and LLP, which require you repay your RSP within certain period.

yes, after paying withholding tax, you should pay tax according to your total incom.
yes, you can withdrawl when you needed, but banks alwasy ask you to give them a reason.

 

[挺傻]

最初由 shusheng 发布
Only restriction, you need 3 month before you can withdraw it. (Is this a bank rule or a CRA rule?)

For first home owner plan, and life long learning plan, 90 days rule is a CRA rule.

 

[shusheng]

另一方面，

RRSP里的投资也有一定的限制。我知道有人不满30%外国投资的限制，而特意选择在RRSP外面投资的。这样可以自由选择，最大限得取得回报。

当然这样做，你要有充足的投资经验，时间，还有信息。