一场很好的争论

[Beleriand]

我们要为死难者及其家属表示哀悼和并攒赏那些为灾民捐款出力的人.
另外, 也应该意识到, 对于这次的灾难的态度,政治的因素远远超过灾害的本身. 阵势已经同911后的形势类似, 不捐是很难过关的.

无论是中国政府, 国内的民众, 以及海外的华人, 在处理这件事情的时候, 都比较好成熟和妥当. 反映了大多数的中国人,还是从人道主义出发, 首先表示同情和帮助, 同时其中也包含了不同的声音, 表达了中国民众对印尼政府在98年迫害华人的事件中的不满和愤怒. 我感觉这两种声音都是合适的,也是一种很健康的,合理的表达, 同时也很好地配合了中国政府的救灾行动行动.

由于这件事已经成为一种政治事件, 中国政府和民间若不表达人道主义的同情和大力的支持, 就会成为众矢之的. 这一点上, 中国和其他国家很不一样, 一方面, 中国的国际影响力在急增, 难免会成为日本,美国这些遏制中国等国家的攻击目标和转移对象, 同时, 中国也很急于改善同周边国家的关系. 而这次受灾的东盟和南亚同中国的关系正超好的方向发展, 合理的处理好同这些国家的关系, 对遏制台独, 保持同日本在亚洲的竞争优势, 都有很重要的意义.

当然我们也没有必要和那些富裕国家比赛捐献的数目, 要根据自己的国情决定,另外也不能去和美国叫板,去争影响力. 只要安安静静的做自己能做的事情, 不要显示出来任何其他的企图, 那么, 对中国的长远利益会很有帮助.

可以理解好多中国人对印尼的仇恨, 但这种仇恨不应该占主导地位. 一个国家的政治和外交, 是为本国人民谋求最大和最长远的利益, 而不是去追求绝对的正义. 当世界的主流在救灾的时候, 如果我们中国政府还在纠缠过去的恩怨, 将会成为别人的攻击,轻视甚至妖魔化的口实. 我们可以理解, 对印尼的仇恨,在我们中国人的心里很沉重, 但对于其他国家, 和每天发生的巴基斯坦人被杀, 伊拉克平民死亡, 卢旺达屠杀, 伊郎地震一样, 只是新闻, 听说过而已.

所以, 我想大家的争论也该差不多了, 募捐也基本上结束了, CFC上的硝烟是不是该散去了一些哪?

 

[C&C]

毛爷爷显灵了~~~~~~~~~~~

 

[光辉岁月]

同意楼主的关于中国政府的观点，大国的崛起需要理性的思维和必要的手段。况且，这次受灾的不止是印尼。从来也没有指责其它捐款的国家或人，但是，作为个人，我不捐。

 

[光辉岁月]

西方媒体经常对中国"迫害少数民族"报导不绝，但是你看到他们对印尼几十年如一日地迫害中国文化(禁止中文、关闭华语学校、迫使华人放弃汉名汉姓)有报道吗？几乎没有，印尼对东帝汶的大屠杀，他们也没有任何兴趣，为什么？政治需要！在台湾公众抗议印尼暴徒奸杀华人妇女等暴行时，印尼驻台代表居然在电视专访中公开表示："如果台商不喜欢到印尼投资，就请选择到其他国家。"有恃无恐，无耻之极啊。如果美国，澳大利亚这些“人权国家”有一点点表示，对印尼的人权问题有一点点关注，印尼华人的日子就会好过的多。至少，不会如此践踏人权，有恃无恐。
(根据网上资料整理)

 

[lifeisfun]

最初由 光辉岁月 发布
西方媒体经常对中国"迫害少数民族"报导不绝，但是你看到他们对印尼几十年如一日地迫害中国文化(禁止中文、关闭华语学校、迫使华人放弃汉名汉姓)有报道吗？几乎没有，印尼对东帝汶的大屠杀，他们也没有任何兴趣，为什么？政治需要！在台湾公众抗议印尼暴徒奸杀华人妇女等暴行时，印尼驻台代表居然在电视专访中公开表示："如果台商不喜欢到印尼投资，就请选择到其他国家。"有恃无恐，无耻之极啊。如果美国，澳大利亚这些“人权国家”有一点点表示，对印尼的人权问题有一点点关注，印尼华人的日子就会好过的多。至少，不会如此践踏人权，有恃无恐。
(根据网上资料整理)

Agree with you. But this disaster relief shouldn't be related too much previous political aspects. Just just when your neighbour's house is on fire and some of kids trapped inside, you don't get in there to put off the fire but stand there thingking how much argumens this neighbour had with me and if I should help or not. People's life is more than anything.

 

[lifeisfun]

最初由 光辉岁月 发布
西方媒体经常对中国"迫害少数民族"报导不绝，但是你看到他们对印尼几十年如一日地迫害中国文化(禁止中文、关闭华语学校、迫使华人放弃汉名汉姓)有报道吗？几乎没有，印尼对东帝汶的大屠杀，他们也没有任何兴趣，为什么？政治需要！在台湾公众抗议印尼暴徒奸杀华人妇女等暴行时，印尼驻台代表居然在电视专访中公开表示："如果台商不喜欢到印尼投资，就请选择到其他国家。"有恃无恐，无耻之极啊。如果美国，澳大利亚这些“人权国家”有一点点表示，对印尼的人权问题有一点点关注，印尼华人的日子就会好过的多。至少，不会如此践踏人权，有恃无恐。
(根据网上资料整理)

Talking about politics, I feel the western countries are much more smarter than China, or at least some of folks here, who only know to use hatred to solve the conflict. In fact USA doesn't like many contries in this regoin, not to say Indonicia, who is the largest Muslim country in the world, so do Australia, whose hundred civilians were killed in Bali bombing. But they understand that economic relief will bring them more political influence there. And they know that mlitary power won't solve everything. Unlike some of our folks here, who only know the hatred. Today they hate Japanese, tomorrow, they hate Indonecian, and the next day they will hate Indian, Vitenamian and Tawanies. Ask youselves, why do I hate everyone around me, do I have some problem myself?

China is not a super power yet now and it should know how to use economical and political stategies to improve its relation with neighbouring countries. Otherwise, those countries will go to USA for ally. Even China becomes a super power someday (in millitary sense),
it should understand that power is not the only way to solve problem, like what USA is facing now in Iraq.

 

[Beleriand]

That's a great point.
Sometime, we aren't very smart and flexible to handle conflict,and easy to become victim.

最初由 lifeisfun 发布


Talking about politics, I feel the western countries are much more smarter than China, or at least some of folks here, who only know to use hatred to solve the conflict. In fact USA doesn't like many contries in this regoin, not to say Indonicia, who is the largest Muslim country in the world, so do Australia, whose hundred civilians were killed in Bali bombing. But they understand that economic relief will bring them more political influence there. And they know that mlitary power won't solve everything. Unlike some of our folks here, who only know the hatred. Today they hate Japanese, tomorrow, they hate Indonecian, and the next day they will hate Indian, Vitenamian and Tawanies. Ask youselves, why do I hate everyone around me, do I have some problem myself?

China is not a super power yet now and it should know how to use economical and political stategies to improve its relation with neighbouring countries. Otherwise, those countries will go to USA for ally. Even China becomes a super power someday (in millitary sense),
it should understand that power is not the only way to solve problem, like what USA is facing now in Iraq.

 

[geek]

搂主分析比较客观。从大局来讲可以认同。但是从民众的内心中，我也不回去捐的。我宁愿捐给中国生活在困难的人。