To: Sage - 怎样应付罚单

[guest]

To: Sage
Since I did not register, and could not follow your post, I post my experience with traffic tickets here, and hope you can read it. In Ontario, the law (or practice) assumes you are guilty until you prove you are innocent (totally different from other law practice), i.e. you prove that the police(s) is wrong (which is very difficult). The Points or other ticket fighters might charge you $300-400, not worth it in your case. I had a speed ticket for $359 (the police said I drove over 153 km in hwy416, but I felt like only 120 km something) last August. I hired a paralegals agent for $200, who used to be a police officer himself and happened to knew the person issued ticket to me, to appear in court on behalf of me last December (when I was in China). The result is that the police shown up in court, and my agent bargained to reduce to 129 km for $138 (supposed to reduce point from 4 to 3 points, but my new insurance policy shows no any points at all). I think this man is reasonable. If you want his phone #, please give me a call at 613-748-2078. With regard to your ticket, you should indicate option 3: Trial Option with Yes to challenge the police officer (this is what my agent told me to have to do). If the police does not show up, you will win by default, but they always show up since they can get $75 allowance for appearance in court. If you fight yourself, you should realize that even you win, your short term gain may cause your long pain (the reason is not suitable to post here). I had another court experience in 1998 with a stop sign ticket. In that case, I and the police both lost, or say both won. Wish you the best luck.

 

[oread]

多谢多谢! 想不到有这麽多热心人! :thanks:

"If you fight yourself, you should realize that even you win, your short term gain may cause your long pain (the reason is not suitable to post here). "

此话怎讲?

 

[guest]

For some reasons, I can not post to this forum. If you give me call at 748-2078, or e-mail me to:
xuewaynexue@hotmail.com, I will explain to you. Good luck.

 

[JYY]

Hey, Youke
If you have time, I think it would be a idea to post your experience there. I am interested in how to finght ticket too.
thanx

 

[oread]

是呀, 不太麻烦的话还是贴这吧.
JYY, 你该去车来车往版. 子荣斑竹和许多热心人帮我分析情况, 给我提供了很多宝贵意见.

 

[guest]

OK. Let me try to tell my trial experience in 1998 to fight for a stop-sign ticket for about $150 (the recent speed ticket is solved by my agent as above posted). Sorry, I have difficulties to type in Chinese. My boss assigned me to Waterloo/ Kitchener area to open a new office, and I needed to look for a house for my family also. I made an appointment with a local real estate agent to shop for both house and office together. One Saturday, I drove to Waterloo area with my wife and son. After searching several houses, it started raining in late afternoon, and we decided to see the last target house then going back home in Toronto. The agent drove in front of me from a small street to a large street with a right turn. I followed close to his car, just slow down at the stop sign, then rush out since I was afraid of lossing the sight of agent car(I might not have a full stop for 2 seconds, but definitely stop once). Just I turned right to catch the agent car, a police car followed me with siren to force me pull out to the side of road. After I stooped, the police still sat in his car to write something. I didn't know what was wrong with me (since I believed I made a full stop). My wife asked me to got out of car to talk with the police. That was a bad, bad suggestion. Never, Never to get out of you car then walk toward a police car, since he may think you have a lethal weapon. When I approached the police car, he was very angry, and order me to back to my car. Then as you know, he collected all my drive licence, insurance paper and ownership, making a record then issued a ticket, totally ignoring what I said or explained.

Later I decided to fight in the court myself. I just wanted to experience a court exercise in Canada for fun, and my Canadian colleagues predicted I would lose in court for sure. At the trial day, I took a day off, driving 150 km to Waterloo court (you have to appear in the court where the ticket issued), arriving 9:00 am. Usually the trial order is following the defendant last name alphabetically, and I knew I always the last one. There were 5 cases before me. I saw the police, who issued me the ticket, wearing a bullet-proof jacket outside the court room with a man like a lawyer to me. I do not understand why he needed to be in a bullet-proof top to a court room with me, an Asian gentleman. In short, at my turn, the secretary called my name. I and my wife as defendants sitting in the left side, and the policy and his lawyer in the right. When the judge came in, we all stood up. Judge asked me to make a vow with my hand on a bible, just like the sense in any movies, saying "I swear I will tell the truth, nothing but the truth", and the same thing for the police. The police first gave his version of story with a graph illustration. Then Judge asked for my version. I said I made a full stop. The police caught a wrong person. My wife as a witness was allowed to say something. She just said "my husband have been a good driver for the past several years without any tickets." Then the judge very kindly said to my wife "I believe what you said, and your husband a good driver. But the police said he has over 17 year experience, and he has sworn to tell the truth. If I agree with you, then that means the police lie" (at that time I realized how difficult to prove the police lied, since it is a criminal in North America if you lie after you swear in court, you may result into jail for that). Then the drama started. The lawyer with the police said to my wife "you said your husband is a good driver, but our records show something against your statement. Do you want we show this in court" My wife was not sure about my drive record, but I knew I had not had any tickets for the past 10 years. I challenged the lawyer "go ahead, show me your record in court". The lawyer stood up, opening his briefcase and putting out a long print page with long list of records. He said the record shown during 1996-1998 I had this, this, this 3 tickets in the Waterloo areas for this, this, this violations. I interrupted him, raising my hand and asking the judge for a permission "your honour, am I allow to say something to verify what the lawyer read". The judge gave me his permission. I stood up and said "I haven't come to Waterloo for almost 10 years. This is the first time I drive here. It is impossible I got the tickets here during the dates you stated." Both the police and the lawyer turned into blue. I asked the judge to verify the traffic violation records. The judge asked the lawyer read the license number in his list loudly, and asked me to show my drive licence. It turned out the licence number he claimed starting with M, but my driver license starting with X, and all numbers did not match. I said to the judge they mad a wrong accusation to me. The judge thought for a while than said to me how about reducing my fine to $50 without any points (it supposed 3 points). My wife pulled my sleeve to urge me to take the offer. I lost my mind at that time and agreed with the judge. When we drove back to home, I thought I should go further using this case to challenge the police working style. He made such a big mistake in pulling out a wrong record, so he could make the same mistake to catch me. It is a reasonable doubt to dismiss this case. But it is too late to revert the judge decision. However, my colleagues said later I'd better to take this result rather than win totally. Actually, without the lawyer's show-off, I lost the case already. I could never forget what kind of the expression in his eyes to me when he left the courtroom. That is a part of reasons I relocated in Ottawa instead of in Waterloo, and also this is why I said above both I and police lost in court, or say we both won.

Finally, JYY and Sage, please always follow the traffic rules, and avoid any traffic tickets at the first place. Fighting a ticket is not fun. Good luck.
>
>

 

[oread]

YOUKE: 你做得很好啊. 不过不该认那$50罚款, 他们的CREDIBILITY已经被完全破坏, 已经输了! 应该痛打落水狗!
我也在蒙特利尔打过TRAFFIC TICKET官司. 不过我不是教徒, 没在BIBLE上宣誓. 在法庭上说谎叫PERJURY, 是很严重的罪行, 但不知道和说谎还是有区别的. 他们证据错误而指控你肯定会输. 证人很重要, 你夫人的话比你或警察都管用. 那个检察官简直是个白痴! 犯这种错误实在该死. 不过他要是不犯错误, 你的官司也没这麽容易解决.
可我不同意案子结束后会有什麽恶果. 不就是张TRAFFIC TICKET嘛. 我想不管是警察还是检察官都没空打击报复你. 据大家说, 你出庭就有50%的赢算.

 

[guest]

"可我不同意案子结束后会有什麽恶果. 不就是张TRAFFIC TICKET嘛. 我想不管是警察还是检察官都没空打击报复你. 据大家说, 你出庭就有50%的赢算."

You will see. I think that life likes a show on the stage, anything could happen.

"我也在蒙特利尔打过TRAFFIC TICKET官司. 不过我不是教徒, 没在BIBLE上宣誓. "

I don't have any religion either, but this might be a routine in Ontario trials.