关于政府退休金的疑惑，请教明白人

[Buckwheattobe]

I disagree that government employees are underpaid, although I agree the pay scales are lower than private sector counterparts. They could be underpaid by their title, but not their contribution or qualification. I've been working as permenent as well as consultant with gov agencies, I figured government employees (CS department) were well over paid considering most of who have neither ability nor willingness to do any "real" work. Most if not all major projects are built and maintained by consultants.

CS3 as senior developer who makes below 90K is low, but 90% of CS3 are not capable to get a senior developer position in private sector, if not 100%.

I can only speak on my experience. Engineers (EN-ENG group) were heavily underpaid during the late 80's and 90's. I was one.
What you are trying to say is there are some in the CS level who are not as capable as those in the private sector but are paid the same. In other words your opinion is they are over-classified. You are also referring to outside consultants doing the bulk of software development work. That I agree. I was not in the CS group but I can imagine. Public Service is a poor choice to learn a trade. That is a fact.

Whether CS's are overpaid or not it is just a group out of many other groups of civil servants. I am speaking Public Service in general.

There are a number of colleagues in my department who made a successful transition to private sector and are doing very well. They are making way more money now.

 

[星星的约会]

现在考虑这些没用，等你退休了，政府还有没有钱继续发退休金都是问题

 

[不舒服]

Whether CS's are overpaid or not it is just a group out of many other groups of civil servants. I am speaking Public Service in general.


CS's could be the goup causing the bad reputation. Quite a lot of them (if not all) can just do nothing due to their possible "high school" background.

IT people with solid BSc MSc and PhD are definitely among the top guys, both efforts and telents. However, how many of them working in IT can be counted, especially within the government wroking force?

 

[lifeisfun]

I can only speak on my experience. Engineers (EN-ENG group) were heavily underpaid during the late 80's and 90's. I was one.



What you are trying to say is there are some in the CS level who are not as capable as those in the private sector but are paid the same. In other words your opinion is they are over-classified. You are also referring to outside consultants doing the bulk of software development work. That I agree. I was not in the CS group but I can imagine. Public Service is a poor choice to learn a trade. That is a fact.







Whether CS's are overpaid or not it is just a group out of many other groups of civil servants. I am speaking Public Service in general.







There are a number of colleagues in my department who made a successful transition to private sector and are doing very well. They are making way more money now.

But you said that in 80-90's, EN-ENG is underpaid, how about the last 10 years. I heard the gap between private and public is getting much smaller. In the last 10 years, the salary in the private is not that attractive. I also do not feel that public sector is underpaid and if you do not like it, you can move to private sector. I guess the main reason for people to stay in public sector is it is more stable and less stressful, not to say the pension is way better than the private.

 

[A-2-Z]

if you die at 65, everything is nothing.
enjoy spending every cent RIGHT NOW don't wait until it's too late.

 

[Buckwheattobe]

But you said that in 80-90's, EN-ENG is underpaid, how about the last 10 years. I heard the gap between private and public is getting much smaller. In the last 10 years, the salary in the private is not that attractive. I also do not feel that public sector is underpaid and if you do not like it, you can move to private sector. I guess the main reason for people to stay in public sector is it is more stable and less stressful, not to say the pension is way better than the private.

As far as EN-ENG group goes, they did catch up a bit. Are they now on par with the industry? You can consult the APEO (Association of Professional Engineers of Ontario) data. I am not that current now as I am retired for a while.
We can debate whether civil servants are underpaid or not till the cows come home, though your last statement is absolutely correct for up to middle level management. Any position from EX-1 level and up however, is very stressful.

 

[Buckwheattobe]

if you die at 65, everything is nothing.
enjoy spending every cent RIGHT NOW don't wait until it's too late.

And then you discover at 65 you have many more years to live........

 

[mooncake]

if you die at 65, everything is nothing.

enjoy spending every cent RIGHT NOW don't wait until it's too late.

translate:

人生的痛苦在于，人死了，钱没花完

And then you discover at 65 you have many more years to live........

更痛苦的是，人没死，钱花完了

 

[闲得慌]

And then you discover at 65 you have many more years to live........

俗话说： 老而不死是为贼

 

[闲得慌]

translate:

人生的痛苦在于，人死了，钱没花完



更痛苦的是，人没死，钱花完了

这2个问题其实早就已经解决了。将不动产如房子反式抵押给银行。如果担心骨灰盒的钱和追悼会的开销，就买一份小额的人寿保险。

 

[eyelash2011]

可以选择不要pension吗？哎。。。。。

 

[我思故我在]

I AM TOTALLY 愤(NOT FINE)。。

你就别愤了，整个国家的养老保险体系都在评估中，公务员的PENSION PLAN被盯上是迟早的事，所谓覆巢之下焉有完卵。。。

 

[mooncake]

I can only speak on my experience. Engineers (EN-ENG group) were heavily underpaid during the late 80's and 90's. I was one.

What you are trying to say is there are some in the CS level who are not as capable as those in the private sector but are paid the same. In other words your opinion is they are over-classified. You are also referring to outside consultants doing the bulk of software development work. That I agree. I was not in the CS group but I can imagine. Public Service is a poor choice to learn a trade. That is a fact.



Whether CS's are overpaid or not it is just a group out of many other groups of civil servants. I am speaking Public Service in general.



There are a number of colleagues in my department who made a successful transition to private sector and are doing very well. They are making way more money now.

之所以能够根据CS Group推及其他Group，是因为整个PS的选拔系统有问题。升职与否不在于干好干坏，而在于年资，更坏的是曝光率，亦即是否经常出现在掌握提拔大权的boss面前。于是本想努力工作的热情不出2年就会烟消云散。变成：1。决心离开，2。决心kiss ass 3。决心混日子。这就是著名的“铁饭碗”+“大锅饭”

 

[我思故我在]

I disagree that government employees are underpaid, although I agree the pay scales are lower than private sector counterparts. They could be underpaid by their title, but not their contribution or qualification. I've been working as permenent as well as consultant with gov agencies, I figured government employees (CS department) were well over paid considering most of who have neither ability nor willingness to do any "real" work. Most if not all major projects are built and maintained by consultants.



CS3 as senior developer who makes below 90K is low, but 90% of CS3 are not capable to get a senior developer position in private sector, if not 100%.

Bear in mind that most CS3s are supposed to be team leaders or project leaders. They are expected to manage the team and/or ensure the project delivery, rather than putting hands on keyboards. CS3s do not necessarily have the capability of being senior developers. Many “soft” skills come to play though such as the skills of project management, team management, communication, negotiation, conflict resolution, etc. Comparing to team/project leaders’ salaries in private sector, you might agree that people in FEDS may be underpaid.



That being said, I think it is acceptable for public servants to get relatively lower paid than those in private sector. People choose their employers for various reasons, all of which should be respected. I think the top three reasons of working in public sector are job security, good pension plan, and good life/work balance.



Federal depts tend to acquire professional services or solutions for their systems/applications, which are considered as project costs and/or O&M budget, as opposed to base budget (salaries). I agree that federal government should have as many as possible projects done by employees. It is likely a more cost-effective way, however politically it is a hard sell as it will expand the CS group dramatically for such tasks that are considered “temporary”.

 

[我思故我在]

之所以能够根据CS Group推及其他Group，是因为整个PS的选拔系统有问题。升职与否不在于干好干坏，而在于年资，更坏的是曝光率，亦即是否经常出现在掌握提拔大权的boss面前。于是本想努力工作的热情不出2年就会烟消云散。变成：1。决心离开，2。决心kiss ass 3。决心混日子。这就是著名的“铁饭碗”+“大锅饭”

这个我比较赞同，越往上走，POLITICAL的因素越重要。更别提法语天花板了:flaming: