What will Doug Ford do now that a judge has blocked his plan to cut Toronto city council?

本帖由 New Person2018-09-10 发布。版面名称:渥太华华人论坛

  1. Adenine

    Adenine 资深人士 ID:65843 VIP

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    多伦多民主程度是纽约的三倍。福娃要砍,坚决不答应!

     
  2. RareEarth

    RareEarth 资深人士 ID:113430

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    法官认为 “ it doubled the population of city wards and therefore limited residents' access to fair representation in city government. ” 这个属于无理取闹。不管代表5万,10万,代表人数总是有限的。人数多少合适,要取决于实际效果。市议会高效运转,才是对纳税人最大的fair。 不能说代表5万就 fair ,代表10万就 unfair。是不是纽约市议员代表15万就3倍的unfair,那样的化,干脆把多伦多议员人数加倍,那不就加倍 fair。

    至于实施过程和时机不好的问题,这部分同意法官的判断。不过这些是短期问题。市议会制度改革是长期任务。 有些问题要在实施的过程中解决。法律程序的本意是为了好的结果。现在往往把程序本身当成了最终目标。凡事都要做的十全十美,那就常常会什么事都干不成。

    渥太华也因该考虑市议员数量砍掉一半,不但能省下市议员工资,而且能大大提高市议会的效率

     
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  3. soysauce

    soysauce 初级会员 ID:125942

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    福娃说渥太华20多个很合適。估计是多伦多人民素质低,不适合充分民主制:D
     
  4. RareEarth

    RareEarth 资深人士 ID:113430

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    这个不能相提并论。美国是总统制,加拿大是议会制。加拿大执政党议员要当部长,反对党有影子内阁。完全是不同的玩法
    。不过加拿大众议员数量多同样是政治分肥的结果。把众议员数量砍掉一半,对国家只好不坏,没有任何问题。

     
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  5. ccc

    ccc 难得糊涂 ID:6614 管理成员 VIP

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    我没问题。你与其他人商量一下吧。:D
     
  6. 冷笑9声

    冷笑9声 开门三件事, 吃好每顿饭,有空多睡觉,闲来瞎扯淡。 ID:105156 VIP

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    村长,我到现在也没完全理解减少议员人数这事。。。既然官大压一级,联邦土豆能出手么? :D
     
  7. soysauce

    soysauce 初级会员 ID:125942

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    可以断它钱财,别的办法没有。福省长上任后,人民才知道,加拿大省长不受约束的权利大过美国总统:D
     
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  8. RareEarth

    RareEarth 资深人士 ID:113430

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    多伦多政府的组织由安省立法决定。不关土豆的事。

     
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  9. ccc

    ccc 难得糊涂 ID:6614 管理成员 VIP

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    upload_2018-9-13_16-12-13.png

    Prime Minister Justin Trudeau applauded the actions of 25 Liberal MPs from Toronto who signed a letter calling on all members of the provincial legislature to step up and defeat Premier Doug Ford's legislation slashing the size of the city's municipal council.

    "Quite frankly, it is something that I expect of all our MPs, to be strong voices for their communities in Ottawa," Trudeau told reporters in Saskatchewan Thursday.

    Trudeau said earlier this week that while he is "disappointed" the Ford government decided to use the notwithstanding clause to force the legislation through the provincial legislature, he will not step into the debate over the size of Toronto city council.

    "We are calling on all MPPs to defeat Ford's legislation, tabled yesterday at Queen's Park, and the Bill's unprecedented use of the notwithstanding clause in Ontario," said the letter, first obtained by the Toronto Star.

    "In particular, we believe MPPs elected in Toronto have a responsibility to defend the city, its democratic institutions, and the rights of citizens to a free and fair municipal election. The people of Toronto deserve nothing less."

    Ford announced Monday that he would take the rare step of invoking Section 33 of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms after an Ontario Superior Court judge ruled that his provincial government's legislation to cut the number of Toronto city councillors was unconstitutional.

    Section 33 — known as the notwithstanding clause — allows premiers or prime ministers to override for a five-year period rulings on legislation that judges have determined would violate sections of the Charter.

    Pierre Trudeau opposed the clause, but reluctantly agreed to its inclusion in order to get a deal on the Constitution Act of 1982, which wrested control of Canada's Constitution from Britain.

    Politically toxic
    Ontario has never used the clause before. Political leaders generally have been reluctant to use the notwithstanding clause, which is viewed by many as politically toxic.

    "The correct response to a court decision one disagrees with is to appeal. Ford's response is heavy-handed and disrespectful," the MPs' letter said.

    "As elected representatives of the City, we want to assure the people of Toronto that we understand and respect the critical role that city hall and local democracy play in building the communities in which we live."

    The letter is signed by all 25 Liberal MPs from Toronto, including several members of the federal cabinet, including:

    • Minister of Crown-Indigenous Relations Carolyn Bennett,
    • Minister of Border Security and Organized Crime Reduction Bill Blair
    • Minister of Science and Sport Kirsty Duncan
    • Minister of Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Ahmed Hussen
    • Minister of Finance Bill Morneau
     
  10. ccc

    ccc 难得糊涂 ID:6614 管理成员 VIP

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    upload_2018-9-13_16-14-59.png

    [​IMG]
    Federal Finance Minister Bill Morneau joined 23 other Toronto-area Liberal MPs who urged Ontario MPPs to reject Premier Doug Ford’s use of the “notwithstanding” clause. (Chris Young / THE CANADIAN PRESS)

    “We believe MPPs elected in Toronto have a responsibility to defend the city, its democratic institutions, and the rights of citizens to a free and fair municipal election. The people of Toronto deserve nothing less.”

    They quoted Prime Minister Justin Trudeau’s declaration that the Liberal party will always “defend the Charter” and said “but this is not a partisan issue” noting former prime minister Brian Mulroney, premiers and municipal leaders “of all political stripes have denounced Ford’s triggering of the notwithstanding clause. The correct response to a court decision one disagrees with is to appeal.”

    The statement — the first of its kind — is signed “The Toronto Liberal MPs” and it includes several high-profile cabinet ministers such as Finance Minister Bill Morneau, Foreign Affairs Minister Chrystia Freeland, Crown-Indigenous Relations Minister Carolyn Bennett, Minister of Science and Sport Kirsty Duncan, and Minister of Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Ahmed Hussen.

    It says that the elected representatives of the city “want to assure the people of Toronto that we understand and respect the critical role that city hall and local democracy play in building the communities in which we live.”

    However Trudeau has already ruled out intervening in the dispute.

    Julie Dabrusin, MP for Toronto-Danforth and a spokesperson for the caucus, told the Star that the caucus statement by “25 federal Liberal MPs saying that a strong Toronto is part of a strong Canada, when you have all of us imploring our MPPs in Queen’s Park to do what’s right,” that is a strong signal. She said the Toronto caucus is satisfied with Trudeau’s decision not to intervene.

    “What we have right now is a constitutional process with people sitting in Queen’s Park with the ability to vote this down, and that is the proper process for showing how our democratic institutions work,” Dabrusin said in an interview. “And in addition, the provincial government is free to appeal that decision. They have the tools that they need to go forward without having to invoke this clause.”

    Speaking in Winnipeg Tuesday, Trudeau said: “We’re disappointed by the provincial government in Ontario’s choice to invoke the notwithstanding clause, but I won’t be weighing in on the debate on how big Toronto municipal council should be,” he said.

    “I will trust that Ontarians will reflect whether or not the provincial government made the right decision on overriding the Charter of Rights and Freedoms on this issue,” said Trudeau, who met with Toronto Mayor John Tory on the topic Monday.
     
  11. kukululu

    kukululu 资深人士 ID:81937 VIP

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    福特这波神操作
    按常理也可能就不是他了.....
    省选得多伦多者得安省,他难道是为了以后铺路?
     
  12. ccc

    ccc 难得糊涂 ID:6614 管理成员 VIP

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    一个市议会大小的问题,为了与法官的裁决决斗,就动用宪法? 看来他当年受的刺激不小。:D
     
  13. 向问天

    向问天 日月神教光明左使 ID:112302 VIP

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    他再不折腾还有啥戏码?

    有人说了,不折腾以后传记作者很难办。
     
  14. ccc

    ccc 难得糊涂 ID:6614 管理成员 VIP

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    Doug Ford, no power grab is worth undermining Canada’s solid foundation
    Marie Henein
    Contributed to The Globe and Mail
    Published September 13, 2018Updated 3 hours ago

    Marie Henein is a lawyer and senior partner with Henein Hutchison.

    It’s time for a lesson on law and government 101. I doubt that Ontario Premier Doug Ford will take me up on the offer of a one-on-one lesson, and since it appears that none of those advising our Premier have thought to take on this task, here it goes.

    Yes, Premier Ford, the job of the conservative majority is to represent the interests of all Ontarians. The public’s legitimate expectation is that the elected government will act in accordance with its avowed agenda and policies. The government, however, does not have the authority to do whatever it wishes because it was elected. The thing about a law-and-order society, which I know you as Premier are all for, is that the laws apply to everyone – even to the government. So here is your first, very important, lesson: Governments are required to act in accordance with the law and, in particular, our Constitution. Even when you don’t agree with the law.

    Here is lesson number two: Politicians are not any more legitimate in our democracy than judges. The judiciary acts as an independent check on government authority because it is unelected, not in spite of it. That is how we, as a democratic country, have decided to govern ourselves. It has worked out pretty well so far.

    Moreover, the judiciary has a particular function in protecting the minority from the majority that elected representatives cannot, by nature, be counted on to carry out. To be sure, there are countries where – as you have recently lamented – the problem of judicial meddling does not exist. Those countries are places like Russia and North Korea. There, the supreme leader can do as he wishes unencumbered by the judiciary. You are not a supreme leader, and the courts are a legitimate, necessary check on government. The various arms of our democracy – the courts, the elected representatives, the executive – all serve very important, but different, functions in protecting citizens. That is the layered complexity of a constitutional democracy. In short, you don’t always get to do what you want, no matter how frustrating that is.

    And now for your most important lesson: Disagreeing with a legal decision is entirely appropriate. In fact, there is an appellate process that allows you to lawfully challenge the judgment, if you disagree with it. You may not know this yet, but there are people in your government, lawyers at the Ministry of the Attorney-General, who do just that each and every day. We, the public, pay for them, and you have full access. You are welcome. They are very good at their job. You should go and speak to them. They could provide assistance in the form of an articulate critique of Justice Edward Belobaba’s judgment striking down your original bill to cut the size of Toronto city council. “I’m elected and you’re not” does not fall into that category.

    Undermining the judiciary and, more importantly, the role that the courts play in our society, even when we disagree with them, is ill-informed bullying. It is a profound public disservice designed to solidify your authority and your base. It disregards norms of forbearance (which means refraining from exercising a power that you have where it is inappropriate to do so) that makes our system function properly. That sort of behaviour incites the public and may grab a few votes along the way, but it is not designed to genuinely lead – which is the job that you were elected to do.

    Your comments reminded me of another person who has taken a dim view of the judiciary and done his level best to undermine that institution. A while back, when he received a judgment he disagreed with, he tweeted: “The opinion of this so-called judge, which essentially takes law-enforcement away from our country, is ridiculous and will be overturned!" This was followed up by, “Just cannot believe a judge would put our country in such peril. If something happens blame him and court system. …” That was U.S. President Donald Trump.

    So here is your final lesson: Mr. Trump is not a good example to follow. Do not forget, Premier Ford, we are Canadian and inherently decent to a fault. The rough-and-tumble populist appeal to which you, apparently, aspire has long-term, negative consequences for the country. No power grab is worth undermining the solid foundations of this country. You owe it to all of us to keep that in mind. Just look to our neighbours to the south.

    Bullies never last. Leaders do. Engaging in informed debate and demonstrating respect for the very democratic system that got you elected is a good starting point. I can say it no better than former prime minister Brian Mulroney: “For me, the backbone of our democracy, the strength of our democracy, is the independence and competence of the court system in Canada.”

    Any time you want that one-on-one lesson, or a bit of a crash course on the Charter – including section 33, the notwithstanding clause – I’m here for you.
     
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  15. soysauce

    soysauce 初级会员 ID:125942

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    这篇写的好。不要跟随俄罗斯朝鲜川普,走粗暴民粹主义的道路:)
     

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