从哈市停水公共危机看“谣言的产生和肆虐”

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从哈市停水公共危机看“谣言的产生和肆虐”

由于地处松花江上游的吉化集团下属的双苯厂发生爆炸,结果导致江水污染。于是哈尔滨市在2005年11月21日到22日连续发布公告,全市停水。

对于此次公共危机,与往常一样,我们中的一些人物也表现出极度的“关注”,各种传言在哈市当地到处飞。网上也议论纷纷,其中主要一股论调就是“哈市停水民怨沸蝣 官方脎岔媒篦噤?”,堪比当年的非典(SARS)时期。

事实究竟是怎么回事,各种人物在其中分别扮演了什么角色?让我们带着这些问题,回顾一下整个事件的来拢去脉和一些团体和媒体是如何利用此来作文章的。

首先让我们从11月21日来自哈尔滨本地的《东北网》一则新闻谈起,这则新闻全国主要媒介都作了转载。在这个新闻稿里哈尔滨市政府以哈政发法字【2005】 25号字样发布的《关于市区供水管网临时停止供水的公告》。此外,除了发布25号公告外,还提到了21日下午的哈尔滨市政府召开紧急会议。以下是这个全国主要媒介都转载的新闻稿(来源http://big5.china.com.cn/chinese/kuaixun/1036923.htm)

//
东北网11月21日电 21日下午,哈尔滨市政府召开紧急会议,研究部署未来几天停水期间居民生活用水和企业生产用水问题。

  会议决定:
  一、由水务部门负责,紧急启动全市所有地下水井,全部面向社会供水,卫生环保部门要及时对水质进行监测,确保供水水质安全。商务部门做好停水期间,桶装水、瓶装水货源组织,保证市场有序供应。消防、环卫部门要调集供水车辆,解决短期内供水难得问题。
  二、采取有力措施,保证供暖用水,提醒市民不要取用供暖管线中的循环水,以免造成水量不足,影响供热。
三、物价、工商、公安等部门要采取有力措施,保证社会秩序和物价秩序,防止哄抬物价,以及其他社会不良现象的发生。

哈尔滨市人民政府关于对市区停水的公告

  东北网11月21日电 据哈尔滨电视台报道,今天,哈尔滨市人民政府发布了《关于对市区市政供水管网设施进行全面检修临时停水的公告》(即在以后我们要讨论的第25号公告),全文如下:

为了保证市区单位和居民生产、生活用水安全,市人民政府决定对市区市政供水管网设施进行全面检修并临时停止供水,现将有关事宜公布如下:

  一、自2005年11月22日中午12时起,对市区市政供水管网设施进行检修并停止供水,检修并停水的时间约为4天(恢复供水时间另行公告), 请市区内的机关、企业事业单位、个体业户和居民以及供水经营单位做好生产、生活用水储备,保证正常生产、生活需要。

  二、自本通知发布之日起市区内的各洗浴、洗车行必须立即停止用水。

  三、市工商、物价、公安等部门应当加强市场监督和治安管理,维护市场和社会秩序。

  哈尔滨市人民政府

二00五年十一月二十一
//


对比一下这则新闻的上下文,我们会发现在这篇新闻稿中谈到了“供水水质安全”这个严重的问题并为此召开了紧急会议,虽然在公告中并没有提到水质安全。从整篇新闻稿来看,哈尔滨政府是很关注全市的供水安全问题的,可不象有些报道说的“?停水事件看政府的冷漠和不作?!”(http:// .tw/bt/5/11/23/n1130057.htm)。

这个对安全的关注,不仅关系到几百万人的吃水安全问题,也关系到各级官僚的身价性命问题。这可不是开玩笑。政府想“不作为”都很难。

但是谣言是怎么起来的,即有些人有些媒体有些团体是怎么利用这件事来”做文章“的呢?

问题出在这个第25号公告中没有明确指出供水安全问题。

在此我也奇怪,哈尔滨的官员们也太笨了些。在一个公示新闻中,既然上面谈到了紧急会议提出了供水安全问题,但是在下面的停水公告中却没有明确提出安全这两个字。明显人一看就是缺少逻辑一致性。

但是,如果你是明白的哈尔滨市民,虽然在公告中没有提水质安全问题,但是也会联系新闻中提到的供水安全紧急会议,敏感地感觉到哈市的水源安全出现了问题,市政府已经在严肃地讨论了,并做出初步处理措施,即停水。

这是一个理智的、希望危机尽快解决的普通市民所产生的自然的反应。


如果没有各种不怀好意的搅乱,如果百姓与政府的相互信任度比较强的话,是不会谣言四起并在一定程度上造成了哈市的混乱。

即,我要在此提出两点,一点是谣言的肇启者和推波助澜者,另一点是早前与网友讨论时提提过的”从侧面表明百姓与政府在沟通方面和在相互信任方面都出现了大的问题“。

关于第二点,我在此不能作过多讨论,因为这涉及到近20年来的中国政策方向和实际操作路线的等诸多方面,不是我这个小民和几段讨论所能说明真正问题何在的。

在此,我重点讨论第一点,”谣言的肇启者和推波助澜者“的所做所为,并分析哈市政府做法的是否合适是否合理,别人是如何利用这些做法来推波助澜的,因为推波助澜引起的混乱的直接受害者是哈市当地的居民,而不是哪些坐在写字桌旁摇舌动唇一点都不觉得累的人物。


21日哈市的25公告实际效果之一就是,造成了别人作文章的口实。境外媒体开始发言了。一些报道出来了:

哈_?I突然全城停水?有地震?言(?)
中?哈_?I遭恐怖阴? 居民?用水咀被投?毒
唐子:晷注哈_?I!天亡中共?檫始?

不仅供水出问题了,还要来地震。这可让哈市的小老百姓怎么活?!
不仅是哈市的生活问题,而且是中国政治前途的天大问题。天要亡你,看中共如何下场?!

实际上受害者当然是哈市的普通居民了,停水导致抢购水,大量贮存水等现象,更可怕的是一些人开始 “逃离哈市”了。这正是有些人希望看到的。

为什么哈市作为积极应对供水危机的停水公告,起了不少反作用呢,除了上面的推波助澜者外,这则公告的不清晰的作法也是原因之一。

应对公共危机,中国统治者的传统的常规处理就是希望平稳地把危机渡过,这是人之常情,各国政府的正常做法。这种传统的处理法在具体做法上,有“统一媒体口径,以免在事实真相完全清楚之前出现各种谣言造成不必要的混乱”,有“发布告示以稳民心”,有“出动大批国家机器力量以防止危机产生的混乱和社会失控”等等。这以上每一项作法,都可以认为是合理的作法,适度的作法。

但是以上每一步,也都可以被“一些手捧民主自由最高原则这本圣经的人”解释为不合理有问题,并造成新的谣言。比如统一媒体口径,可以被认为是妨碍新闻自由妨碍公民的知情权。又如出动大批军政人员,可以被认为是...,请看有些媒体的解释:“防民众藉松花江污染泄不满 警力全出动”,即出动警力不是应付供水危机所可能产生的紧急情况从而进行抢救的,而是防止本地居民暴动的!

对哈市的普通居民来说,不管政府的公告怎么说,不管有多少谣言,关键是看政府采取行动了没有?只要有行动,我们百姓就不会被因饮用当地供水而生病而被害死。根据21日下午的市政府紧急会议,根据21日的停水公告,正如前面我所讲的,理智的市民是可以得出结论,市政府已经启动了危机应对机制。

可惜,哈市政府的21日的这则25号公告没有考虑到“当今中国社会的不稳定性”,“存在着专门制造谣言和混乱的团体”及“利用现代化工具迅速传播的各种谣言”。

可以说第25号公告是个失误,当事人--哈市政府可能也马上意识到了,于是,就在同一天,数小时之后有了哈市的第26号公告:

哈尔滨市人民政府
关于市区市政供水管网临时停水的公告
哈政发法字[2005]26号

2005年11月13日,中石油吉化公司双苯厂胺苯车间发生爆炸事故。据环保部门监测,目前松花江哈尔滨城区段水体未发现异常,但预测近期有可能受到上游来水的污染。为确保市区内人民群众和机关、企事业单位用水安全,市人民政府决定市区供水管网临时停止供水。现将有关事宜公告如下:

一、自2005年11月22日20时左右,市区市政供水管网将临时停止供水,停水时间约为4天(具体停止供水和恢复供水时间另行公告)。请市区内的机关、企业事业单位、个体业户和居民以及供水经营单位做好生产、生活用水储备,保证正常生产、生活需要。

二、自本公告发布之日起市区内的各洗浴、洗车行业必须立即停止用水。

三、市工商、物价、公安等部门要加强市场监督和治安管理,维护市场和社会秩序。


  2005年11月21日


同一天,对同一问题,连续发布两次公告,中间仅隔数小时。

26号公告,应该说是比25号更透明了,明确提出“有可能受到上游来水的污染”。可是谣言停止了吗? 根本不会。请看,

哈_?I官方大?模整?化工品酌?部份居民供水咀含?毒 11月23日

我们知道,上游水有污染,将需要一段时间才能到达哈市,在这段时间里,政府是完全有时间有能力采取应对措施的,比如寻找替代水源,又如能不能找到污染物处理办法,但是双苯厂爆炸后对江水的污染物主要是苯,是难降解物质,这些解决办法在短时间内,从技术上从工程上这是不可能的。于是只好停水。

可是新谣言却又开始说“部分居民供水网含剧毒”(http:// .tw/bt/5/11/23/n1129868.htm),并怀疑说,这不仅是上游污染问题,而且有可能是哈市供暖热水管线中有氢化物外泄,结果当地军警押送大量硫代硫酸忏,次氯酸忏,?氧化忏至部份已经关闭的供水地段。

一天之内发两次公告,从供水管道检修到来自上游的污染,确实给当地居民造成了事实上的困惑。有的居民晚上下班回家一看新闻知道了第26号公告,才知道上游水被污染了。可是有些人却不停地对这些居民说,你难道没有看第25号公告吗,那上面只说是管道检修,现在又说污染,明摆着“政府在骗我们”。

于是谣言不停地产生,哈市的也不停地混乱。

在21日的第二天,11月22日哈市又发布了第27号公告:

哈尔滨市人民政府
关于正式停止市区自来水供水的公告
哈政法字[2005]27号

  根据省环保局监测报告,中石油吉化公司双苯厂爆炸后可能造成松花江水体污染。为了确保我市生产、生活用水安全,市政府决定于11月23日零时起,关闭松花江哈尔滨段取水口,停止向市区供水,具体恢复供水时间另行公告。望市区内广大市民群众及各机关、企事业单位给予谅解。

  特此公告。

  哈尔滨市人民政府

  二00五年十一月二十二日

面对第25,26,27号公告,但是小道消息依然也不断地传出,其中一则是:
“政府已获悉,苯毒已污染了江水。在随后的几天里,围绕该不该停水、要不要通报的问题,哈尔滨政府内部展开了一场激烈的辩论。最终决定不得不停水时,该市政府还专门就是否公开停水原因召开常务会议,结果力主保密的声音占了上风,传令全市一万多名警察进入戒备状态”。而且一些新闻记者,也以这种小道消息作为发布新闻的依据。

“该不该停水”按这位记者的听来的小道消息是,停不停还讨论了几天。我看这也太危言耸听了吧?松花江是哈市重要水源,上游被污染了,过一些日子污染物就会来到哈市。哈市在短时间内,如果能找到替代水源,那么不必全市停水只需局部停水即可,但我们都知道,这从工程上,从技术上,在短时间内是不可能的。哈尔滨市政府除了官僚还有专家和技术人员,应该是很快地就会作出届时停水的决定。何苦要讨论几天?不停水产生的问题,谁敢负这个责任?

我们再检视一下,松花江水受污染的实际情况:

2005年11月13日,中石油吉化公司双苯厂车间发生爆炸事故,污染松花江上游,进而威胁哈市。但是不是马上就要污染哈市呢?

哈尔滨市相关单位预测含有苯的污染水源将在23日凌晨通过松花江哈尔滨段,但23日凌晨环保部门并未监测到污染带,这令冒着寒风守候在江边的媒体记者多少有些失望。

而实际情况是:有关记者从黑龙江省环保局获悉,松花江污染带前锋11月24日5时到达哈尔滨市四方台取水口。截止到11时30分,松花江污染带已经开始进入哈尔滨市区江段。国家环保总局已派出专家,协助黑龙江省开展水质监测工作,从松花江入境到哈尔滨市共布设了5个水质监测断面,主要断面的监测频次为每半小时一次。


到目前25日为止,哈市的水源公共危机还没有完全渡过,现在的新传言是:

北京媒篦冱疑吉林化工爆炸污染松花江
松花江污染超?108倍 滕哈?票售光(?)
俄?心黑?江遭污染引办生??膣
俄阻?要求中?衮?黑?江水污染(?)

按以上的传言,这次污染事件,好象黑幕重重,不仅哈市政府言辞不同的第25和第26号公告有问题,而且上游的爆炸工厂污染江水也没有及时公告民众。最后结果,不仅水质超标108倍,而且将马上引起国际纠纷,问题可了不得了?!再加上哈市马上就要地震了的传言,这种日子可让哈市的小老百姓怎么过日子啊?!

当然,从哈市此次的公共危机处理过程中来看,即从一个侧面说明,中国现在的官僚体制响应危机和应对危机的机制和水平还是比较差的。加上政府和民众相互信任度严重下降等社会因素,给哈市造成了一定程度上的混乱。

但是,也正如一些研究公共安全问题专家的评论所言,这次供水危机,哈市的应对措施基本上是妥当的,“比较及时、得当的。首先,有效的组织对污染源的控制,现在对吉林石化的一些污染源都做了有效的控制,另外通报了松花江流域将要经过的区域等等,也基本做到了准确,公开的公告”。

因此,现在的哈市没有出现更多的混乱,也没有出现有些人热切要看到的更多人“外逃”的现象。混乱控制在了可承受范围之内。

现在我们回头看一看,当面对这场公共危机之时,我们中的一些人确实表现出了异乎寻常的“关注”。我只是希望,抛开种种形而上的东西不论,我们要记住这次公共危机关系到的是几百万普通百姓的生活健康问题,请一些团体,如果还有些良知,请不要制造各种谣言了。我们可以在事后,总结批评,让有责任者付出惨重代价。但是在应对危机的正当之时,还是谣言少一些的好,人心稳定一些的好。

面对这次因传言而造成的哈市混乱,有人指出(详见DJY11月23日讯):
“?言?致混?,?任在於政府”

对此,我不禁要问,曾经在哈市市面上流行的,其中部分确实是政府应对失误而产生的传言;可是,难道其中相当大的一部分不是地地道道的谣言、不负责任的谎言吗?也不禁要问,除了哈市政府出现的失误外,有些团体有些人物在编制谣言传播谎言制造混乱扩大混乱等方面,扮演了什么角色起到了什么作用?
 


难道咱们的人民只配这样的政府么。

:blowzy: :blowzy:
 
最初由 做好人干好事 发布

算了吧你,你转的那东西真是有点恶心,不去找谁犯了错,不象人民道歉,那个感情丰富的总理却又出来SHOW UP,人民还感激的不得了,他妈的,操,真是把丧事当喜事办的能手!


最初由 做好人干好事 发布

再提醒你一下,原来要断水政府给的是啥原因?后来瞒不住了又给了啥原因?
老百姓不知所措才会去信谣言传谣言,狗屁 "其中部分确实是政府应对失误而产生的传言", 应对失误? 举个例子你开车应该踩刹车可是你是新手紧张误踩油门这叫应对错误,你看见是红灯还要不断踩油门冲过去也算应对错误?
制造谣言是居心叵测,故意撒荒又是啥?别给那些当权者找遮休布了,他妈可以给俄国道歉(这里又有个问题,按照中共讲法,早和俄国有沟通,让他们知道了灾情,哪道的是啥歉?)为何没人出来给哈尔滨的人民道歉? 如果你是既得利益的一分子,你对他们护着挡着,我可以理解,如果不是,那算个啥呢?
共党有种就让当事官员出来道歉辞职,否则共党和它的跟屁虫就闭上臭嘴,比来把殇事当喜事办那一套了,恶心

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最初由 mamaomao 发布





立此存照
如果你是既得利益的一分子,你对他们护着挡着,我可以理解,如果不是,那算个啥呢?
共党有种就让当事官员出来道歉辞职,否则共党和它的跟屁虫就闭上臭嘴,比来把殇事当喜事办那一套了,恶心
 
松花江污染这事,中国政府处理的漂亮,比美国水灾处理强多了。

政府上下齐动员,兄弟省市都帮助,所谓“一方有难八方支援”,至今没有一起中毒事件,体现了社会主义优越性。

反观美国水灾,小树林在灾区飞一圈就颠儿了;美国政府派去从伊拉克战场刚下来的职业杀手。。。

不比不知道,一比吓一跳啊~~
 
最初由 adware 发布

如果你是既得利益的一分子,你对他们护着挡着,我可以理解,如果不是,那算个啥呢?
共党有种就让当事官员出来道歉辞职,否则共党和它的跟屁虫就闭上臭嘴,比来把殇事当喜事办那一套了,恶心

最初由 mamaomao 发布


有些人见到国内混乱就异乎兴奋,见到国内人“在做事,在处理问题”就发'酸"。

从此次污染事件和停水事件,可以看出:
尽管国内相当一批人在糟蹋国家糟蹋人民,但是也有相当一批人在“做事”,默默作贡献也罢,补露洞也罢,是他们在撑着这么一个大的国家。国家脊梁也!

那些见到国内混乱就异乎兴奋的人,我劝你们稍把良知多拿出一些,因为乱者异象,到头来乱的是小老百姓,苦的也是小老百姓。他们可没机会和财力跑到国外来。

立此存照
 
sb.啥叫稳定民心。。政府跟着老百姓一起乱那还了得。。。有时候需要把事情捂一捂,别搞得民心惶惶的。。看现在大选搞得民心惶惶的,政府部门都没人办事了,。都在tmd隔岸观火。。屁大个事都要等半天。。。
 
Jesus Christ! who IS this guy mamaomao?

This guy seems to have plenty free time at hand. It's hard for me to imagine one can spend so much time on researching, collecting articles, writing and typing, just to defend a totalitarian regeme. I wonder if there's any overtime pay for this guy and who's paying it?...:) I know I don't have that much time and energy doing that kind of research and writing. Taking care of my pigs is much more important that doing that.

What's more shameless about this guy is he's even publicly claiming to "archive" what people wrote. To my limited knowledge that whatever people wrote here are automatically saved on the server, so there's no need to save or archive separately. For a smart guy like him he must have known that. What's interesting here is if he knows that but at the same time he's still announcing that he be archiving some people's words. That begs for the question why he's doing it? Let's give him an opportunety to answer that first, and see what kind of explaination he can come up with...:)

One issue that he has been spending so much time and trying so hard to muddle the water is the so called "romor" issue. I don't want to waste my time to argue with someone like him. All I want say is that one major charactoristic of a democretic society is openness which gives no room for rumors. On the other hand in order to survive, a totalitarian system relies totally on secrecies which inevitably calls for rumors. And in China's case, nine out of ten rumors eventually turned out to be true.

Last but not least, dear mamaomao, if you want archive my words, don't bother I can send it to your email box, or even better I can send it directly to your boss if you give me their email address...:)
 
Re: Re: 从哈市停水公共危机看“谣言的产生和肆虐”

最初由 yokel 发布
Jesus Christ! who IS this guy mamaomao?

This guy seems to have plenty free time at hand. It's hard for me to imagine one can spend so much time on researching, collecting articles, writing and typing, just to defend a totalitarian regeme. I wonder if there's any overtime pay for this guy and who's paying it?...:) I know I don't have that much time and energy doing that kind of research and writing. Taking care of my pigs is much more important that doing that.

What's more shameless about this guy is he's even publicly claiming to "archive" what people wrote. To my limited knowledge that whatever people wrote here are automatically saved on the server, so there's no need to save or archive separately. For a smart guy like him he must have known that. What's interesting here is if he knows that but at the same time he's still pronouncing that he be archiving some people's words. That begs for the question why he's doing it? Let's give him an opportunety to answer that first, and see what kind of explaination he can come up with...:)

One issue that he has been spending so much time and trying so hard to muddle the water is the so called "romor" issue. I don't want to waste my time to argue with someone like him. All I want say is that one major charactoristic of a democretic society is openness which gives no room for rumors. On the other hand in order to survive, a totalitarian system relies totally on secrecies which inevitably calls for rumors. And in China's case, nine out of ten rumors eventually turned out to be true.

Last but not least, dear mamaomao, if you want archive my words, don't bother I can send it to your email box, or even better I can send it directly to your boss if you give me their email address...:)
who wants to archive ur bullshit here!even u spend lots of time on it,it is still bullshit!
China has lots of problems, but it is growing, it is promising,that's all!
who pay u speak here? If any one voices diferently with u guys, he or she is paid for that? that is what u called democatical way of thinking?give us a break!

I do not want to argue with u guys here, cos I know some of u are too shity to argue with. u have to admite it and shutup if u hang out here often, if u know more about what most of Chinese here are thinking of, if u know what most of us will do when they face what u guys are doing overseas,....in one word, if u dare to face the facts that u guys are not wellcome here. otherwise if u pretend to ignore those facts, just go ahead and post more bullshit here!
 
Re: Re: 从哈市停水公共危机看“谣言的产生和肆虐”

最初由 yokel 发布
Jesus Christ! who IS this guy mamaomao?

This guy seems to have plenty free time at hand. It's hard for me to imagine one can spend so much time on researching, collecting articles, writing and typing, just to defend a totalitarian regeme. I wonder if there's any overtime pay for this guy and who's paying it?...:) I know I don't have that much time and energy doing that kind of research and writing. Taking care of my pigs is much more important that doing that.


Last but not least, dear mamaomao, if you want archive my words, don't bother I can send it to your email box, or even better I can send it directly to your boss if you give me their email address...:)
 
据报导: 为了避免媒体持续挖掘真相导致群众反弹,中共中央宣传部要求近日来进驻黑龙江省及吉林省报导的大陆媒体记者撤离,返回驻地,后续报导「统一使用新华社稿件」。
 
Re: Re: Re: 从哈市停水公共危机看“谣言的产生和肆虐”

Dear mamaomao,

You seem to have omitted 2 of my paragraphs. which does not look very professional for someone like you. You also seemed to have omitted your trademark "立此存照"... I know, I know these days it's tough to make money in any jobs, especially for type of work you're doing.

To make your life a bit easier and to show a bit friendly juesture, I'm attaching the missed 2 paragraphs and your trademark as following:

What's more shameless about this guy is he's even publicly claiming to "archive" what people wrote. To my limited knowledge that whatever people wrote here are automatically saved on the server, so there's no need to save or archive separately. For a smart guy like him he must have known that. What's interesting here is if he knows that but at the same time he's still announcing that he be archiving some people's words. That begs for the question why he's doing it? Let's give him an opportunety to answer that first, and see what kind of explaination he can come up with...

One issue that he has been spending so much time and trying so hard to muddle the water is the so called "romor" issue. I don't want to waste my time to argue with someone like him. All I want say is that one major charactoristic of a democretic society is openness which gives no room for rumors. On the other hand in order to survive, a totalitarian system relies totally on secrecies which inevitably calls for rumors. And in China's case, nine out of ten rumors eventually turned out to be true.

立此存照


It's much better now...:)
 
Re: Re: Re: 从哈市停水公共危机看“谣言的产生和肆虐”

最初由 234567 发布who wants to archive ur bullshit here!even u spend lots of time on it,it is still bullshit! China has lots of problems, but it is growing, it is promising, that's all! who pay u speak here? If any one voices diferently with u guys, he or she is paid for that? that is what u called democatical way of thinking?give us a break!

I do not want to argue with u guys here, cos I know some of u are too shity to argue with. u have to admite it and shutup if u hang out here often, if u know more about what most of Chinese here are thinking of, if u know what most of us will do when they face what u guys are doing overseas,....in one word, if u dare to face the facts that u guys are not wellcome here. otherwise if u pretend to ignore those facts, just go ahead and post more bullshit here!
Wow... "bullshit", "shutup", "shity"... Is this how your parants having spent 20 or 30 years raised you and taught you how to talk to people? If this is the way how your parants talk to people, and therefore this's how you have been learning from them, I'll rest my case and let you have the last word.

By the way, what's "shity"? Do you mean shitty? I thought it were English...:)

"even u spend lots of time on it" That's interesting... Do you want to compare the length of my little comment and the length of mamaomao's several masterpiece articles like PhD theses? Don't forget to also compare how many citations he quoted and how many citations my little comment quoted if there's any. Where did you get the idea that I spent lots of time? If you are so sure about that, why not tell people here how much time I had spent on my little comment? so you and I can let people be the judge if that amount of time constitutes "lots of time".

"China has lots of problems, but it is growing" Growing? You mean after more than 50 years that the party in power air polution is growing? water polution is growing? the frequency of environmental disasters is growing? Chinese people's premature death rate and health problem because of worsening environmental conditions growing? Let alone many other problems growing... Sometimes when you write you need to be a bit more specific...

"it is promising" Promising? Do you mean the wallets of those corrupted officials promising? Do you mean the broadness and the extensiveness of corruptions among the party officials promising? If questions like these are too complicated for you to answer, I'll go easy on you. Just tell us this: after more than 50 years the party in power the corruption is getting less and less? or more and more? How does this question sound?

"If any one voices diferently with u guys, he or she is paid for that?" No, not at all... Actually this is my first time saying that to anyone. It was just very surprising to see the overwhelming amount of work, effort, time and energy that mamaomao has been putting into several of his impressively long theses. Also because not only his theses are much elaborate and longer than anyone else but also he tried a bit too hard, a bit too desparate, as well as he is the only one openly announced to archive some other people's words, which is not decent and not something a gentleman would do at all. There are others who share mamaomao's view but I never had that thought on any of them, not even bothered to say anything.

"if u know what most of us will do when they face what u guys are doing overseas" I do not know what most of you will do. Why not tell people in this forum so we can have a better idea about what kind of person you are, and what kind of group of people or orgnization you represent. You seem to use the phrase "u guys" a lot. Who are the "u guys"? How many of them you know personally? How much you know about them? How much you know about me? And what's the relevancy between the "u guys" and me?

"if u know more about what most of Chinese here are thinking of" Searching for and discussing about truth is not a popularity contest. I believe most Chinese here are a silient majority and they can see more and more problems in China. Even if, which I doubt, most of Chinese are not able to see through the propaganda or lies like in the SAR event and this time in Harbin, they will find out the truth pretty soon. Let me quote someone you probably worship very much. One of the famous sayings by Chairman Mao goes like this: "Sometimes the truth is in the hands of minorities."

I never pretend to represent anyone else but myself. But you sound like representing a lot of Chinese. Who are you representing anyway? How many are there that you seem to claim to be representing? Please let people here know and that'll be interesting to see... Hope it's not a Chinese Boys or Girls Scout...:)

"if u dare to face the facts that u guys are not wellcome here" It then shows again how narrow-minded you are. Let's see if I dare to face the facts:
Fact 1. this forum whoever started it is a public forum
Fact 2. I did not see my little comment vialates any of the Forum Regulations. If you see any vialation please let me know, oh better yet, please openly post the vialation here.

Do you want to tell people here what I have done or what's YOUR particular reason or reasons that YOU think I am, as a single person, not welcome here? Now it's time to see if you dare...:)

On the other hand even though I can see there're some differences between your view and my view, but I personally welcome you here to continue participating in the forum, but at least TRYING to cut down the cursing, vulgarity and profanity, I know sometimes habits can be hard to change.

Further more, if you are the founder of the forum and you have problem or can't stand seeing me occasionally having discussion with other participants even if there's no any vialation on my part. There won't be any problem, and I'll not participate in the discussion. All you need to do is just post a little note in the forum saying I am the founder and I don't want yokel to participate in any discussion in this forum, then I'll stop participating. That's all it takes. Is that good enough? Geez, this is the twenty first century and someone's so afraid of a dumb yokel...lol

I think I'm done with you...:)

I wish a founder or administrator of a news forum especially like this serving both Chinese and non-Chinese abroard and in China should be more inclusive, more open-minded, and of course more civilized than most of people, not like some of the people I saw here.

Sometimes seeing guys like mamaomao and 234567 make me sad, and also make me wonder what exectly in modern Chinese culture made them who they are? I'm not blaming them here. On the contrary I think in most part it's not their fault... Any input? That could be an interesting and meaningful subject for discussion.
 
把丧事办成喜事:

http://www.sina.com.cn 2005年11月27日21:41 新华网

  27日傍晚,黑龙江省长张左己来到了住在道里区新阳路289号的市民庞玉成家。进屋后,张左己跟着庞玉成的二女儿来到厨房,打开水龙头。“我希望你们记者都看着啊!”面对闻讯赶来的记者,张左己风趣地说。

  不一会儿,一杯滚烫的水递到了省长手里。张左己双手高高举起水杯,先是呷了一小口,笑着对大家说:“水还有点烫,味道很甘甜。但我不是说水的指标,这个指标得专家认定,专家说可以喝大家再喝。”

  马志新接过话茬:“省长,你说话算数!”

  “不是我说话算数,是共产党说话算数,人民政府说话算数,” 张左己认真地回答。

  水晾了一会儿,张左己端起水杯,与大家一饮而尽。庞玉成老人放下水杯,说:“我今天很激动,刚编了一首小诗,给大家朗诵一下:斟上一杯放心水,心中感到格外美;党送温暖家家乐,百姓心里放光辉。”

  挤满人的小屋里立即响起了一片欢笑声,4天来松花江水污染的阴霾在阵阵欢笑声中一散而尽。
 
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