从哈市停水公共危机看“谣言的产生和肆虐”
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从哈市停水公共危机讲中国文化的良知观
http://www.comefromchina.com/newbbs/showthread.php?s=&forumid=95&threadid=429201
从哈市停水公共危机讲中国文化的良知观
－－兼答对《从哈市停水公共危机看谣言的产生和肆虐》的批评
2005年11月25日，凭己感我发了一篇小文《从哈市停水公共危机看谣言的产生和肆虐》。我的文章的结论是：
“面对这次因传言而造成的哈尔滨混乱，有人指出(详见DJY11月23日讯)：“?言?致混?，?任在於政府”。对此，我不禁要问，曾经在哈市市面上流行的，其中部分确实是由于政府处置不当而产生的传言，可是其中相当大的一部分，难道不是地地道道的谣言、不负责任的谎言吗？也不禁要问，除了哈市政府出现的失误外，有些团体有些人物在编制谣言传播谎言制造混乱扩大混乱等方面，扮演了什么角色起到了什么作用？”
我的这篇文章在网上发布之后，好象“捅了马蜂窝”。很多批评意见集中在“有人造谣,但政府是在说谎”方面，质问道你为什么要为这样的政府说好话作辩护？不批评政府，却大提特提所谓的谣言，到底是谁造成的混乱，是谣言还是政府？
此外，对这篇文章看不顺的，有一些人表达的“简明而直接”，现摘录部分如下：
“见过不要脸的，没见过万维网有本文作者这样不要脸的 - AM 11/25/05 ”
“are you out of your mind? dumb f*u*c*k - jzzz 11/25/05 ”
“你是不是很久没有挨揍啦？ - jie 11/26/05 ”
“如果你是既得利益的一分子,你对他们护着挡着,我可以理解,如果不是,那算个啥呢?共党有种就让当事官员出来道歉辞职,否则共党和它的跟屁虫就闭上臭嘴,比来把殇事当喜事办那一套了,恶心”
“This guy seems to have plenty free time at hand. It's hard for me to imagine one can spend so much time on researching, collecting articles, writing and typing, just to defend a totalitarian regeme. I wonder if there's any overtime pay for this guy and who's paying it?"（大意是，这么写维护中共的文章，估计是拿钱的网特。这两年，大家都在相互骂对方是特务“在网上兴风作浪“。对经常上网的朋友来说，早习以为常的了）
这些我都觉得不奇怪。因为在海外，大家习惯了国内“一抹黑”的舆论环境。遇到“批国内的文章”，尽管大家对其中的事实有所怀疑，但转念一想国内现在的问题越来越多，什么事情发生不了，于是对这种有几分事实、却添加了诸多传言甚至谎言的文章，也就默认了，习惯了。
但是我呢，却发了一篇“为腐朽中共辩解”的文章，一些人就不习惯了，反感了，受不了了。
为什么我要逆“潮潮流”而动呢？原因简单，因为对此次哈尔滨处理水污染事件，如果就事论事，政府的处理措施基本上还说得过去，尽管其中哈尔滨政府的失误和官僚作风表现也很明显。可惜的是，对此次哈尔滨处理水污染事件，一些势力和人物，表现得依然是“杀声阵阵，谣言肆虐”。于是，我就看不惯了。再加之，我这人爱认死理爱找证据相互进行对比，多看一看并加以对比后，有些现象看不下去了，于是就有感而发了。
对我的这篇文章，除了以上“简明而直接”的批评外，当然也有理性的不同意见，如：“我想起了那句话：在这个荒谬得令人绝望的世界上，除了谎言，还能有什么可以相信的？在现有的舆论导向下，人们有时候更愿意相信谣言。”
既然这位网友认为这个世界荒谬得令人绝望，我无语。我尊重他的感受。
但我也想说，不少人是有这种悲观的情绪，但是不是就意味着“谣言”可以堂而皇之的肆虐呢？一些人从自身经验认为，意识形态和官僚道德文章是对人性的扼杀；那么，我反问一句，默认谣言甚至食之如饴，是不是可以认为是自愿接受思想上的被凌辱呢？
与此同时，也有另一种”理性的批评“，即为什么能冒出来”我这么一种人“在”为中共说话“呢？原因何在，这位网友写道：
”Sometimes seeing guys like mamaomao make me sad, and also make me wonder what exectly in modern Chinese culture made them who they are? I'm not blaming them here. On the contrary I think in most part it's not their fault“
即这位网友欲从中国文化背景上来分析'为什么"。
能从文化角度来思考问题，绝对是一个好角度。人的言行无不与其生存的社会文化环境息息相关。比如我这个人，青年以前都是在中华人民共和国长大的，受的是标准的16年的”党的教育“。试想，在这种文化背景下，"我这种人"为中共说话甚至唱赞歌也就不奇怪了。特别是，“某些大家"从独裁的国内来到了自由的欧美世界，人人争取来个"脱胎换骨"，而且摆脱了封锁消息变得也灵通了。这样一来，大家就能从“（民主）道德高度”方面，从见多识广的角度，来对国内加以评论了。在如此氛围下，出来个“我这种人”很不入流，不作批评反搞辩护，一看就是深受毒害。这个毒害不仅来自中共教育，也来自中国这个数千年的文化大染缸－－染者如趋颜附势，如睁眼说瞎话等等，而这些污迹都能在“我这种人”所写的《从哈市停水公共危机看谣言的产生和肆虐》一文中找到“证据”。文如其人，“我这种人”是什么样的德行就可想而知了。
幸而上面哪位网友不准备更多责备我（I'm not blaming them here. On the contrary I think in most part it's not their fault），但是我觉得还是有必要自我反思一下。不过，也希望这位网友和类似批评者，思考一下自身：
大家同来自中国文化这个大染缸，我们中间的很多人，怀着真诚希望能摆脱它的影响，大家可以自问一下能漂洗掉几分？
有人说，我们要摆脱的只是它的消极方面，要发扬积极方面。说得好，可是在对中国文化的理解上，各人经历不同，感受也不同，你能自信地把握住几分“什么是消极，什么是积极方面？”
对此，有人说了，你这种论调是不是想给自己的“不齿行为”作辩护？ 我的回答－－这不是在作辩护，这是正经地想与大家讨论一下“如何理解中国文化”？因为有些人挂着中国优秀文化的招牌，做的却是违背中国文化精髓的勾当。在此，请允许我先谈一下我是如何理解中国文化的。
我对中国文化的理解，还是基于最简单的一个“良知”，以此为出发点来看待中国这个文化大染缸的。
什么是良知？按孟子的话就是，见到小孩子落井，萌生救护之心，即为良知；由此简单的解释出发，一个人可以充浩然之气而不顾自身性命去救那个孩子，进而以己身达他人提出”爱吾幼及他幼爱吾老及他老“；也可以充无欲之气来对抗权势，见到乌烟瘴气就忍不住站出来。 什么是”乌烟瘴气“？ 在中国这个文化大染缸里，乌烟瘴气多的很，如肆虐的谣言－－我们知道中国人是很喜欢制造和传播谣言的民族之一。这个良知，进一步是”浩然正气“；退一步来用，就是”己所不欲勿施于人“，所谓”恕道“也。
一些网友对我的文章的批评，也是基于良知而发的，不忍心见到广大民众被污水毒害。实际上，我们在这一点上是相通的。只是我是基于良知，看不惯那些谣言的推波助浪，加剧了几百万市民生活混乱，有些混乱绝对是无良知的造谣者直接造成的，象市民纷纷外逃的这种乱象绝对是有些人所乐意看到的。可惜，乱者苦象，到头来乱的还是小老百姓，苦的还是小老百姓。
写到此，结合中国历史，不妨多讲几句，从广义的角度，来说说什么是“良知”？在宋以后，对民间习练功夫者尤其是练内功者（内功，50年代以后接受河北刘贵珍医师的提法改称“气功”，80年代中后期后，对它的叫法就更多了。其中最知著者如 法 轮 大法）而言，驱病健身是基本，但要想达到“上层次”，必须在练功过程中维护“一心”，进一步地产生“一知”。凭此“一知”，从低的程度来说就可以通周天，高一些的就能“出窍飞升”。没有这“一心一知”的练功就是“空烧炉?,白耗精气神”，其结果按大白话就是，不是白忙一场就是走火入魔，堕入无复翻身的罗刹界。“罗刹界”类似于宇宙天体现象中的“黑洞”，是佛家的说法。
明清之际，大家讲求的是儒学，佛教，道教的”三教合一“，三教合一的最根本基础就是这个”一心“。一心在儒学被解释为见孺落井而”生良知的一心“，在佛教被解释为爱惜蝼蚁之一命的”慈悲之心“，在道教修炼道术（即现在的气功或大法）中人看来，”一心“就是为了上层次的、遵照由”精“而生”气“终化”神“步骤的、这么一个变化过程中的临界值/点。精和气是形而下的凡人所具有的普通物质；而”神“却是修炼者求之不得，反复求之，终在意外的无心无念的寂然之境，忽有一物灵然一动。动即为一知，由此一动而得者即为一心，循此一心便可得超凡入圣之”神“－－形而上的人生升华解脱之道。
在这种“三教合一”的中国哲学环境中，没有良知的练功者是不可能得到人生解脱之道的，即心术不正，何能成道，反而不如一个堂堂正正的凡人。“堂堂正正”意即这个人有意无意地掌握了“一心”和“良知”的精髓，尽管他没有专门或者没想到要'大肆宣传来标榜自己的修炼和功德"。有些修炼者不从”良知“这个根本来下功夫，而是舍本逐末甚至沦入“下流”，这在古代表现为某一时期极度流行的“取阴补阳”之术并美名为“男女同修”，而在当今的表现就更五花八门了，如大小通吃欲凌驾于三教之上的“大法”。同时，在这个大法的宣传媒介上，你经常可以看到80％以上的谣言。
以上是在行家面前班门弄斧，本人依自己的感受而写的对中国文化的一点理解。每个人经历不同，自然对中国文化有不同角度的理解和不同观点的发挥。
行文至此，远了。还是回到我所写的《从哈市停水公共危机看“谣言的产生和肆虐”》一文，和网友对此的批评上来。其中一位网友对此文的批评，是从文化角度展开的，即从中国文化这个大染缸的角度来审视海外华人所言所行。因此，才有我上面的对中国文化的一点理解感受。
由哈市停水公共危机我们可以看出“中国行至此刻，问题重重”，大家难免问“道在何方”？而且可以预见，我等华人在将来，还要不停地听到从国内传来的种种坏消息和重重黑幕，怎么看待应何反应？
我在此，只能说一句，希望大家不要忘记“良知”和那个“一心”；也不要忘记在国内，有我们这个民族真正的脊梁们在撑着这个问题多多却始终屹立不到的华夏，无论这些脊梁是默默地作贡献，还是为那些糟蹋国家糟蹋人民的所造成的后果'补窟窿负职责"。这才是为什么衰亡了多少次，依然总是可以老枝发新芽、悠长发展至今的中华国家日复日兴的原因所在。
http://www.comefromchina.com/newbbs/showthread.php?s=&forumid=95&threadid=429201
从哈市停水公共危机讲中国文化的良知观
－－兼答对《从哈市停水公共危机看谣言的产生和肆虐》的批评
2005年11月25日，凭己感我发了一篇小文《从哈市停水公共危机看谣言的产生和肆虐》。我的文章的结论是：
“面对这次因传言而造成的哈尔滨混乱，有人指出(详见DJY11月23日讯)：“?言?致混?，?任在於政府”。对此，我不禁要问，曾经在哈市市面上流行的，其中部分确实是由于政府处置不当而产生的传言，可是其中相当大的一部分，难道不是地地道道的谣言、不负责任的谎言吗？也不禁要问，除了哈市政府出现的失误外，有些团体有些人物在编制谣言传播谎言制造混乱扩大混乱等方面，扮演了什么角色起到了什么作用？”
我的这篇文章在网上发布之后，好象“捅了马蜂窝”。很多批评意见集中在“有人造谣,但政府是在说谎”方面，质问道你为什么要为这样的政府说好话作辩护？不批评政府，却大提特提所谓的谣言，到底是谁造成的混乱，是谣言还是政府？
此外，对这篇文章看不顺的，有一些人表达的“简明而直接”，现摘录部分如下：
“见过不要脸的，没见过万维网有本文作者这样不要脸的 - AM 11/25/05 ”
“are you out of your mind? dumb f*u*c*k - jzzz 11/25/05 ”
“你是不是很久没有挨揍啦？ - jie 11/26/05 ”
“如果你是既得利益的一分子,你对他们护着挡着,我可以理解,如果不是,那算个啥呢?共党有种就让当事官员出来道歉辞职,否则共党和它的跟屁虫就闭上臭嘴,比来把殇事当喜事办那一套了,恶心”
“This guy seems to have plenty free time at hand. It's hard for me to imagine one can spend so much time on researching, collecting articles, writing and typing, just to defend a totalitarian regeme. I wonder if there's any overtime pay for this guy and who's paying it?"（大意是，这么写维护中共的文章，估计是拿钱的网特。这两年，大家都在相互骂对方是特务“在网上兴风作浪“。对经常上网的朋友来说，早习以为常的了）
这些我都觉得不奇怪。因为在海外，大家习惯了国内“一抹黑”的舆论环境。遇到“批国内的文章”，尽管大家对其中的事实有所怀疑，但转念一想国内现在的问题越来越多，什么事情发生不了，于是对这种有几分事实、却添加了诸多传言甚至谎言的文章，也就默认了，习惯了。
但是我呢，却发了一篇“为腐朽中共辩解”的文章，一些人就不习惯了，反感了，受不了了。
为什么我要逆“潮潮流”而动呢？原因简单，因为对此次哈尔滨处理水污染事件，如果就事论事，政府的处理措施基本上还说得过去，尽管其中哈尔滨政府的失误和官僚作风表现也很明显。可惜的是，对此次哈尔滨处理水污染事件，一些势力和人物，表现得依然是“杀声阵阵，谣言肆虐”。于是，我就看不惯了。再加之，我这人爱认死理爱找证据相互进行对比，多看一看并加以对比后，有些现象看不下去了，于是就有感而发了。
对我的这篇文章，除了以上“简明而直接”的批评外，当然也有理性的不同意见，如：“我想起了那句话：在这个荒谬得令人绝望的世界上，除了谎言，还能有什么可以相信的？在现有的舆论导向下，人们有时候更愿意相信谣言。”
既然这位网友认为这个世界荒谬得令人绝望，我无语。我尊重他的感受。
但我也想说，不少人是有这种悲观的情绪，但是不是就意味着“谣言”可以堂而皇之的肆虐呢？一些人从自身经验认为，意识形态和官僚道德文章是对人性的扼杀；那么，我反问一句，默认谣言甚至食之如饴，是不是可以认为是自愿接受思想上的被凌辱呢？
与此同时，也有另一种”理性的批评“，即为什么能冒出来”我这么一种人“在”为中共说话“呢？原因何在，这位网友写道：
”Sometimes seeing guys like mamaomao make me sad, and also make me wonder what exectly in modern Chinese culture made them who they are? I'm not blaming them here. On the contrary I think in most part it's not their fault“
即这位网友欲从中国文化背景上来分析'为什么"。
能从文化角度来思考问题，绝对是一个好角度。人的言行无不与其生存的社会文化环境息息相关。比如我这个人，青年以前都是在中华人民共和国长大的，受的是标准的16年的”党的教育“。试想，在这种文化背景下，"我这种人"为中共说话甚至唱赞歌也就不奇怪了。特别是，“某些大家"从独裁的国内来到了自由的欧美世界，人人争取来个"脱胎换骨"，而且摆脱了封锁消息变得也灵通了。这样一来，大家就能从“（民主）道德高度”方面，从见多识广的角度，来对国内加以评论了。在如此氛围下，出来个“我这种人”很不入流，不作批评反搞辩护，一看就是深受毒害。这个毒害不仅来自中共教育，也来自中国这个数千年的文化大染缸－－染者如趋颜附势，如睁眼说瞎话等等，而这些污迹都能在“我这种人”所写的《从哈市停水公共危机看谣言的产生和肆虐》一文中找到“证据”。文如其人，“我这种人”是什么样的德行就可想而知了。
幸而上面哪位网友不准备更多责备我（I'm not blaming them here. On the contrary I think in most part it's not their fault），但是我觉得还是有必要自我反思一下。不过，也希望这位网友和类似批评者，思考一下自身：
大家同来自中国文化这个大染缸，我们中间的很多人，怀着真诚希望能摆脱它的影响，大家可以自问一下能漂洗掉几分？
有人说，我们要摆脱的只是它的消极方面，要发扬积极方面。说得好，可是在对中国文化的理解上，各人经历不同，感受也不同，你能自信地把握住几分“什么是消极，什么是积极方面？”
对此，有人说了，你这种论调是不是想给自己的“不齿行为”作辩护？ 我的回答－－这不是在作辩护，这是正经地想与大家讨论一下“如何理解中国文化”？因为有些人挂着中国优秀文化的招牌，做的却是违背中国文化精髓的勾当。在此，请允许我先谈一下我是如何理解中国文化的。
我对中国文化的理解，还是基于最简单的一个“良知”，以此为出发点来看待中国这个文化大染缸的。
什么是良知？按孟子的话就是，见到小孩子落井，萌生救护之心，即为良知；由此简单的解释出发，一个人可以充浩然之气而不顾自身性命去救那个孩子，进而以己身达他人提出”爱吾幼及他幼爱吾老及他老“；也可以充无欲之气来对抗权势，见到乌烟瘴气就忍不住站出来。 什么是”乌烟瘴气“？ 在中国这个文化大染缸里，乌烟瘴气多的很，如肆虐的谣言－－我们知道中国人是很喜欢制造和传播谣言的民族之一。这个良知，进一步是”浩然正气“；退一步来用，就是”己所不欲勿施于人“，所谓”恕道“也。
一些网友对我的文章的批评，也是基于良知而发的，不忍心见到广大民众被污水毒害。实际上，我们在这一点上是相通的。只是我是基于良知，看不惯那些谣言的推波助浪，加剧了几百万市民生活混乱，有些混乱绝对是无良知的造谣者直接造成的，象市民纷纷外逃的这种乱象绝对是有些人所乐意看到的。可惜，乱者苦象，到头来乱的还是小老百姓，苦的还是小老百姓。
写到此，结合中国历史，不妨多讲几句，从广义的角度，来说说什么是“良知”？在宋以后，对民间习练功夫者尤其是练内功者（内功，50年代以后接受河北刘贵珍医师的提法改称“气功”，80年代中后期后，对它的叫法就更多了。其中最知著者如 法 轮 大法）而言，驱病健身是基本，但要想达到“上层次”，必须在练功过程中维护“一心”，进一步地产生“一知”。凭此“一知”，从低的程度来说就可以通周天，高一些的就能“出窍飞升”。没有这“一心一知”的练功就是“空烧炉?,白耗精气神”，其结果按大白话就是，不是白忙一场就是走火入魔，堕入无复翻身的罗刹界。“罗刹界”类似于宇宙天体现象中的“黑洞”，是佛家的说法。
明清之际，大家讲求的是儒学，佛教，道教的”三教合一“，三教合一的最根本基础就是这个”一心“。一心在儒学被解释为见孺落井而”生良知的一心“，在佛教被解释为爱惜蝼蚁之一命的”慈悲之心“，在道教修炼道术（即现在的气功或大法）中人看来，”一心“就是为了上层次的、遵照由”精“而生”气“终化”神“步骤的、这么一个变化过程中的临界值/点。精和气是形而下的凡人所具有的普通物质；而”神“却是修炼者求之不得，反复求之，终在意外的无心无念的寂然之境，忽有一物灵然一动。动即为一知，由此一动而得者即为一心，循此一心便可得超凡入圣之”神“－－形而上的人生升华解脱之道。
在这种“三教合一”的中国哲学环境中，没有良知的练功者是不可能得到人生解脱之道的，即心术不正，何能成道，反而不如一个堂堂正正的凡人。“堂堂正正”意即这个人有意无意地掌握了“一心”和“良知”的精髓，尽管他没有专门或者没想到要'大肆宣传来标榜自己的修炼和功德"。有些修炼者不从”良知“这个根本来下功夫，而是舍本逐末甚至沦入“下流”，这在古代表现为某一时期极度流行的“取阴补阳”之术并美名为“男女同修”，而在当今的表现就更五花八门了，如大小通吃欲凌驾于三教之上的“大法”。同时，在这个大法的宣传媒介上，你经常可以看到80％以上的谣言。
以上是在行家面前班门弄斧，本人依自己的感受而写的对中国文化的一点理解。每个人经历不同，自然对中国文化有不同角度的理解和不同观点的发挥。
行文至此，远了。还是回到我所写的《从哈市停水公共危机看“谣言的产生和肆虐”》一文，和网友对此的批评上来。其中一位网友对此文的批评，是从文化角度展开的，即从中国文化这个大染缸的角度来审视海外华人所言所行。因此，才有我上面的对中国文化的一点理解感受。
由哈市停水公共危机我们可以看出“中国行至此刻，问题重重”，大家难免问“道在何方”？而且可以预见，我等华人在将来，还要不停地听到从国内传来的种种坏消息和重重黑幕，怎么看待应何反应？
我在此，只能说一句，希望大家不要忘记“良知”和那个“一心”；也不要忘记在国内，有我们这个民族真正的脊梁们在撑着这个问题多多却始终屹立不到的华夏，无论这些脊梁是默默地作贡献，还是为那些糟蹋国家糟蹋人民的所造成的后果'补窟窿负职责"。这才是为什么衰亡了多少次，依然总是可以老枝发新芽、悠长发展至今的中华国家日复日兴的原因所在。
Re: Re: 从哈市停水公共危机看“谣言的产生和肆虐”
片儿警?
最初由 yokel 发布
Jesus Christ! who IS this guy mamaomao?
This guy seems to have plenty free time at hand. It's hard for me to imagine one can spend so much time on researching, collecting articles, writing and typing, just to defend a totalitarian regeme. I wonder if there's any overtime pay for this guy and who's paying it?...I know I don't have that much time and energy doing that kind of research and writing. Taking care of my pigs is much more important that doing that.
What's more shameless about this guy is he's even publicly claiming to "archive" what people wrote. To my limited knowledge that whatever people wrote here are automatically saved on the server, so there's no need to save or archive separately. For a smart guy like him he must have known that. What's interesting here is if he knows that but at the same time he's still announcing that he be archiving some people's words. That begs for the question why he's doing it? Let's give him an opportunety to answer that first, and see what kind of explaination he can come up with...
One issue that he has been spending so much time and trying so hard to muddle the water is the so called "romor" issue. I don't want to waste my time to argue with someone like him. All I want say is that one major charactoristic of a democretic society is openness which gives no room for rumors. On the other hand in order to survive, a totalitarian system relies totally on secrecies which inevitably calls for rumors. And in China's case, nine out of ten rumors eventually turned out to be true.
Last but not least, dear mamaomao, if you want archive my words, don't bother I can send it to your email box, or even better I can send it directly to your boss if you give me their email address...
片儿警?
Re: Re: Re: 从哈市停水公共危机看“谣言的产生和肆虐”
This person calls my little comment 片儿警?, I wonder what he'll call mamaomao's so many long articles which displayed a variety of functions such as defending, attacking, and even archieving. Obviously he has more than he had said. Wish he had the guts to spill it out...
Human behavior and what's behind it always fascinate me...
This person calls my little comment 片儿警?, I wonder what he'll call mamaomao's so many long articles which displayed a variety of functions such as defending, attacking, and even archieving. Obviously he has more than he had said. Wish he had the guts to spill it out...
Re: Re: Re: Re: 从哈市停水公共危机看“谣言的产生和肆虐”
俺指那个工程师是负责网上健康的"片儿警".
最初由 yokel 发布
Human behavior and what's behind it always fascinate me...
This person calls my little comment 片儿警?, I wonder what he'll call mamaomao's so many long articles which displayed a variety of functions such as defending, attacking, and even archieving. Obviously he has more than he had said. Wish he had the guts to spill it out...
俺指那个工程师是负责网上健康的"片儿警".
"从哈市停水公共危机讲中国文化的良知观
我的这篇文章在网上发布之后，好象“捅了马蜂窝”。很多批评意见集中在“有人造谣,但政府是在说谎”方面，质问道你为什么要为这样的政府说好话作辩护？"
Based on the title and the content of the article it's obvious that this article is intended to respond to my previous comment. I think the author knew very well that my comment and the differences between us are not about the content of WHAT he wrote, but about HOW he wrote. What I don't quite understand is why he is trying to purposely mislead people/readers into thinking that my comment and the difference between us are only about the content of WHAT he wrote as he put it "很多批评意见集中在“有人造谣,但政府是在说谎”方面"? Let me repeat here once for all. The reason for me to write the comment had nothing to do with the contents of your articles, but had everything to do with how you wrote it. Let me tell you the truth: I did not even read any of your long articles. It's not because that your articles are of poor quality, it's simply because it's too long, way exceeds the short span of my yokel brain concentration. Over the years I have seen hundreds if not thousands of people online defending Chinese government, attacking whoever dare to critisize it. Many of them are much more passionate than you, others are milder. I did not bother to post a single word. Let me put it another way, if you write 10 research theses to defend Adof Hitler, You will not see me posting a single word to respond. What makes you unique when comparing you with the rest? When I scrolled down the page where your long articles and others' posts are, there were three things that caught my eyes which are:
1. the tremendous effort that you have put into your articles
2. the archiving of other's words and your amazing trade mark "立此存照"
3. the tone in a few of your lines
As you can see again none of them is about the contents of what you wrote. I'll try to explain.
To save reader's time, I'll skip the first one because it was already covered in my previous comment. About the second point which is archiving words of those who do not share your views, we all know that some departments of Chinese government have been monitoring and archieving sites like this including chatrooms, people's daily emails, land line phone and cell phone conversations all over the world. You really don't need to archieve yourself. Even if you decide to do so, you could have done so quietly or unnoticeably. But you chose not only to do it openly, but also to accounce it publicly on the Internet to the world. I (and probably many others in this forum) have been still waiting for you to give an explanation on why you chose to do that? About the third point, I noticed a few lines in your articles are... How to describe... Please forgive my poor English... some of them are 杀机四伏, some are 杀气腾腾... (any English major experts please help here, how to translate these to English, "intimidate" is just too general, won't depict the 杀机，杀气...) That's why I wanted to say a few words. It shows again my previous comment had nothing to with the content of what you wrote, but had everything to do with how you wrote.
"我这人爱认死理爱找证据相互进行对比，多看一看并加以对比后，有些现象看不下去了，于是就有感而发了。"
你有感而发想咋发咋发，跳着发，躺着发，打着滚的发都没事儿。你就是无感而发也没事儿。可你老是“立此存照"干哈吗？你看你，这东拉西扯的又是一大锅，咋就是一字不提你那“立此存照"？俺撇下地里活专门来瞅瞅你这大锅就是担心你那“立此存照"。俺们庄户人胆儿小，好歹给俺们解释解释干哈老是要“立此存照"。闹得俺晚上睡觉听见耗子拉屎都吓得出冷汗。
"与此同时，也有另一种”理性的批评“，即为什么能冒出来”我这么一种人“在”为中共说话“呢？原因何在，这位网友写道：
”Sometimes seeing guys like mamaomao make me sad, and also make me wonder what exectly in modern Chinese culture made them who they are? I'm not blaming them here. On the contrary I think in most part it's not their fault“"
Another intereting thing shows up here. I noticed that one of the names 234567 was quietly erased from my paragraph that he quoted above. I wonder why he's doing that? What purpose does that serve? I know you have been archiving or saving people's words. Do you also erase, cut or change their words when archiving them? Maybe it's okay in your profession to erase, cut, change or twist other's words when you quote, archive them. But in the west it is considered very inethical. Let's see why he's doing it? Are you mamaomao and 234567 the same person? so you don't want poeple to know that? Is 234567 your close frinds? or your collegue? or your contact that you don't what people to see you two are being together in public?... Or he's someone you admire and you are too ashamed of yourself so don't want to embarrase him? Or you think you are so smart that you can erase, cut, change or twist peoples words without being noticed, and manipulate people's mind, and intimidate people, doing all these things at the same time, so you don't want such a smart mamaomao being associated with 234567 who curses a lot? Please try not do it again, people in the west consider behavior like that is a charactor issue.
"比如我这个人，青年以前都是在中华人民共和国长大的，受的是标准的16年的”党的教育“。试想，在这种文化背景下，"我这种人"为中共说话甚至唱赞歌也就不奇怪了。"
Hey, slow down here, don't be so fast... I think I have recieved longer "党的教育" than you，and my upbring is probably more orthodox than yours. I believe there are people more so than me. With that in mind, let's see the behavior differences. There are things you don't seem to have problem saying, doing and thinking about, but others will have difficulty even seeing themselves saying, doing and thinking about like you. Do you really think people here will believe that it was the "党的教育" that has caused you did what you did? 党啥时候教育你别人一有不同意见，就立马儿掏个小本记下，再举个大牌儿“立此存照"直嚷嚷？...
"其中一位网友对此文的批评，是从文化角度展开的，即从中国文化这个大染缸的角度来审视海外华人所言所行。因此，才有我上面的对中国文化的一点理解感受。"
There are several interesting points I have noticed in his latest article. One is that my original phrase is "modem Chinese culture", not a general term "Chinese culture". There IS a big difference between the two, and that's why I specifically chose the phrase "modern Chinese culture" After the smarty pants' "faithful translation" it became "中国文化这个大染缸", and the title of his new article became "从哈市停水公共危机讲中国文化的良知观". Nice, right?... What's happening here is a 50-year long problem is now quietly switched to or replaced with a 5000-year long "problem". If it's a 5000-year "problem", nobody is clean, and everybody is at fault, therefore nobody is at fault. What a sneaky guy...
"不过，也希望这位网友和类似批评者，思考一下自身:大家同来自中国文化这个大染缸，我们中间的很多人，怀着真诚希望能摆脱它的影响，大家可以自问一下能漂洗掉几分？"
This guy is now trying to blame Chinese culture for his unique behavior.
First of all I don't think "中国文化" is a "大染缸". The traditional Chinese culture is way better than the modern Chinese culture which is at best only a currupted and a very limited version of the traditional Chinese culture. Secondly, I think there are so many treasures in the traditional Chinese culture. Thirdly, I don't know HOW MANY people there are, as you said, "真诚希望能摆脱它的影响"? And HOW MUCH they "真诚希望能摆脱它的影响"? And to what extent? I know I don't. Quite opposite to "真诚希望能摆脱它的影响" I wish I had wasted much less time when I was a kid, so I would have had more time to learn more about Chinese culture.
如果中国文化真是象你所说的那样，又如何解释自古以来中国文化产生了那么多国学大师？他们往往是人品正直，心胸博大，同时又是谦谦君子。Look at now, how many people are like that?
If you really think your unique behavior is caused by the traditional Chinese culture, then tell us which one of your acts listed above can be traced back to a particular part of the traditional Chinese culture? And why so many other Chinese who have been influenced by Chinese culture much more than you do did not and will not do what you did?
Another interesting thing I noticed in this article compared to his previous long articles is this one has a bit less 杀气，a bit less 杀机， a bit less 凶气，a bit less 横气，but more 机关...lol
不由自主地想起了村里老辈人常说的话，"做人啊，还是老实点好..."
我的这篇文章在网上发布之后，好象“捅了马蜂窝”。很多批评意见集中在“有人造谣,但政府是在说谎”方面，质问道你为什么要为这样的政府说好话作辩护？"
Based on the title and the content of the article it's obvious that this article is intended to respond to my previous comment. I think the author knew very well that my comment and the differences between us are not about the content of WHAT he wrote, but about HOW he wrote. What I don't quite understand is why he is trying to purposely mislead people/readers into thinking that my comment and the difference between us are only about the content of WHAT he wrote as he put it "很多批评意见集中在“有人造谣,但政府是在说谎”方面"? Let me repeat here once for all. The reason for me to write the comment had nothing to do with the contents of your articles, but had everything to do with how you wrote it. Let me tell you the truth: I did not even read any of your long articles. It's not because that your articles are of poor quality, it's simply because it's too long, way exceeds the short span of my yokel brain concentration. Over the years I have seen hundreds if not thousands of people online defending Chinese government, attacking whoever dare to critisize it. Many of them are much more passionate than you, others are milder. I did not bother to post a single word. Let me put it another way, if you write 10 research theses to defend Adof Hitler, You will not see me posting a single word to respond. What makes you unique when comparing you with the rest? When I scrolled down the page where your long articles and others' posts are, there were three things that caught my eyes which are:
1. the tremendous effort that you have put into your articles
2. the archiving of other's words and your amazing trade mark "立此存照"
3. the tone in a few of your lines
As you can see again none of them is about the contents of what you wrote. I'll try to explain.
To save reader's time, I'll skip the first one because it was already covered in my previous comment. About the second point which is archiving words of those who do not share your views, we all know that some departments of Chinese government have been monitoring and archieving sites like this including chatrooms, people's daily emails, land line phone and cell phone conversations all over the world. You really don't need to archieve yourself. Even if you decide to do so, you could have done so quietly or unnoticeably. But you chose not only to do it openly, but also to accounce it publicly on the Internet to the world. I (and probably many others in this forum) have been still waiting for you to give an explanation on why you chose to do that? About the third point, I noticed a few lines in your articles are... How to describe... Please forgive my poor English... some of them are 杀机四伏, some are 杀气腾腾... (any English major experts please help here, how to translate these to English, "intimidate" is just too general, won't depict the 杀机，杀气...
) That's why I wanted to say a few words. It shows again my previous comment had nothing to with the content of what you wrote, but had everything to do with how you wrote."我这人爱认死理爱找证据相互进行对比，多看一看并加以对比后，有些现象看不下去了，于是就有感而发了。"
你有感而发想咋发咋发，跳着发，躺着发，打着滚的发都没事儿。你就是无感而发也没事儿。可你老是“立此存照"干哈吗？你看你，这东拉西扯的又是一大锅，咋就是一字不提你那“立此存照"？俺撇下地里活专门来瞅瞅你这大锅就是担心你那“立此存照"。俺们庄户人胆儿小，好歹给俺们解释解释干哈老是要“立此存照"。闹得俺晚上睡觉听见耗子拉屎都吓得出冷汗。
"与此同时，也有另一种”理性的批评“，即为什么能冒出来”我这么一种人“在”为中共说话“呢？原因何在，这位网友写道：
”Sometimes seeing guys like mamaomao make me sad, and also make me wonder what exectly in modern Chinese culture made them who they are? I'm not blaming them here. On the contrary I think in most part it's not their fault“"
Another intereting thing shows up here. I noticed that one of the names 234567 was quietly erased from my paragraph that he quoted above. I wonder why he's doing that? What purpose does that serve? I know you have been archiving or saving people's words. Do you also erase, cut or change their words when archiving them? Maybe it's okay in your profession to erase, cut, change or twist other's words when you quote, archive them. But in the west it is considered very inethical. Let's see why he's doing it? Are you mamaomao and 234567 the same person? so you don't want poeple to know that? Is 234567 your close frinds? or your collegue? or your contact that you don't what people to see you two are being together in public?...
Or he's someone you admire and you are too ashamed of yourself so don't want to embarrase him? Or you think you are so smart that you can erase, cut, change or twist peoples words without being noticed, and manipulate people's mind, and intimidate people, doing all these things at the same time, so you don't want such a smart mamaomao being associated with 234567 who curses a lot? Please try not do it again, people in the west consider behavior like that is a charactor issue."比如我这个人，青年以前都是在中华人民共和国长大的，受的是标准的16年的”党的教育“。试想，在这种文化背景下，"我这种人"为中共说话甚至唱赞歌也就不奇怪了。"
Hey, slow down here, don't be so fast... I think I have recieved longer "党的教育" than you，and my upbring is probably more orthodox than yours. I believe there are people more so than me. With that in mind, let's see the behavior differences. There are things you don't seem to have problem saying, doing and thinking about, but others will have difficulty even seeing themselves saying, doing and thinking about like you. Do you really think people here will believe that it was the "党的教育" that has caused you did what you did? 党啥时候教育你别人一有不同意见，就立马儿掏个小本记下，再举个大牌儿“立此存照"直嚷嚷？...
"其中一位网友对此文的批评，是从文化角度展开的，即从中国文化这个大染缸的角度来审视海外华人所言所行。因此，才有我上面的对中国文化的一点理解感受。"
There are several interesting points I have noticed in his latest article. One is that my original phrase is "modem Chinese culture", not a general term "Chinese culture". There IS a big difference between the two, and that's why I specifically chose the phrase "modern Chinese culture" After the smarty pants' "faithful translation" it became "中国文化这个大染缸", and the title of his new article became "从哈市停水公共危机讲中国文化的良知观". Nice, right?...
What's happening here is a 50-year long problem is now quietly switched to or replaced with a 5000-year long "problem". If it's a 5000-year "problem", nobody is clean, and everybody is at fault, therefore nobody is at fault. What a sneaky guy..."不过，也希望这位网友和类似批评者，思考一下自身:大家同来自中国文化这个大染缸，我们中间的很多人，怀着真诚希望能摆脱它的影响，大家可以自问一下能漂洗掉几分？"
This guy is now trying to blame Chinese culture for his unique behavior.
First of all I don't think "中国文化" is a "大染缸". The traditional Chinese culture is way better than the modern Chinese culture which is at best only a currupted and a very limited version of the traditional Chinese culture. Secondly, I think there are so many treasures in the traditional Chinese culture. Thirdly, I don't know HOW MANY people there are, as you said, "真诚希望能摆脱它的影响"? And HOW MUCH they "真诚希望能摆脱它的影响"? And to what extent? I know I don't. Quite opposite to "真诚希望能摆脱它的影响" I wish I had wasted much less time when I was a kid, so I would have had more time to learn more about Chinese culture.
如果中国文化真是象你所说的那样，又如何解释自古以来中国文化产生了那么多国学大师？他们往往是人品正直，心胸博大，同时又是谦谦君子。Look at now, how many people are like that?
If you really think your unique behavior is caused by the traditional Chinese culture, then tell us which one of your acts listed above can be traced back to a particular part of the traditional Chinese culture? And why so many other Chinese who have been influenced by Chinese culture much more than you do did not and will not do what you did?
Another interesting thing I noticed in this article compared to his previous long articles is this one has a bit less 杀气，a bit less 杀机， a bit less 凶气，a bit less 横气，but more 机关...lol
不由自主地想起了村里老辈人常说的话，"做人啊，还是老实点好..."
写得不错。不过提个建议，请不要中英夹白。不仅我，我想大部分CFC的网友看得都累。
我受了中共16年教育，你说比我受得时间还长，那么说明中文水平也不话下了，所以在中文网上用中文的好。我每周工作时间内被迫看不少专业英文，头都大了，工作之余我是死活不看英语文章的。再说我接受的中共教育中没怎么教育我要好好学习英文，所以至今我还为我那英语水平发愁。
因此，麻烦重新用中文写一下的好。这样，也便于其它网友响应你的观点，支持你的观点。
我也喜欢有人能这么认真地与我辩论。你比哪几个只会一唱一和，会说几句俏皮话的水平强多了。欢迎用中文讨论。
我受了中共16年教育，你说比我受得时间还长，那么说明中文水平也不话下了，所以在中文网上用中文的好。我每周工作时间内被迫看不少专业英文，头都大了，工作之余我是死活不看英语文章的。再说我接受的中共教育中没怎么教育我要好好学习英文，所以至今我还为我那英语水平发愁。
因此，麻烦重新用中文写一下的好。这样，也便于其它网友响应你的观点，支持你的观点。
我也喜欢有人能这么认真地与我辩论。你比哪几个只会一唱一和，会说几句俏皮话的水平强多了。欢迎用中文讨论。
"那么说明中文水平也不话下了"
"也不在话下了"？俺可没你那么自信。也没你那么高水平。俺啥文也不行。奥，对了，养俩儿猪还过得去。
"再说我接受的中共教育中没怎么教育我要好好学习英文"
瞧这小嘴多巧... 有些个事党也没教你，你咋心有灵犀，不教自会干得欢？不过这话也得说回来，没准党背地里偷偷给爱徒单传，俺们外人就不知道了。
"我也喜欢有人能这么认真地与我辩论"
认真谈不上。俺连你那些旁引博征，论中道西的论文都没拜读，实在愧称认真。不过有点好奇，好些年了没见象你这样爱耍小聪明的...
辩论不敢当，俺也没那本事。俺只是提俩儿问题请教请教。
It's not that I don't want to use Chinese to communicate. It's the following reasons that I need to use English:
1. I don't use Chinese operating system for various reasons such as stability, compatibility etc. I use English operating system with Chinese Star. Even so the combination still causes my system stability and compatibility problems. The reason that this time I added some Chinese is of course due to my poor English. At the time when I used Chinses Star writing some Chinese charactors I had to shut down all other applications and prayed it would not crash on me. So it's really not very convenient for me to write in Chinese.
2. Another embarrassing reason is that I'm lousy typing Chinese charactors, extremely slow. There you have it...
Sorry for those who wish to see more Chinese.
Wish I could do better...
最初由 yokel 发布
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It's not that I don't want to use Chinese to communicate. It's the following reasons that I need to use English:
1. I don't use Chinese operating system for vairous reasons such as stability, compatibility etc. I use English operating system with Chinese Star. Even so the combination still causes my system stability and compatibility problems. The reason that this time I added some Chinese is of course due to my poor English. At the time when I used Chinses Star writing some Chinese charactors I had to shut down all other applications and prayed it would not crash on me. So it's really not very convenient for me to write in Chinese.
2. Another embarrassing reason is that I'm lousy typing Chinese charactors, extremely slow. There you have it...
Sorry for those who wish to see more Chinese.
Wish I could do better...
那位工程师花那么多时间在各大中文网站(包括CFC)写长篇文章, 不知道他的雇主怎么看? 纯粹是业余爱好? 还是作为自由作家赚些稿费?
