从F网站转载来的文章如果被举报是否应该删除?请渥太华华人网络公民跟贴
- 主题发起人 wushuren
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"如果直接大段转贴违反加拿大和西方社会政教分离原则的该运动网站的写手文章，我个人倾向于删除，但会在程序正义的情况下删除..."
Wow... What an elaborate and carefully constructed sentense, and it sounds pretty righteous too. I have to admit that when I read this line it did bring a grin to my face, because I'm impressed by your effort...
But unfortunately the smell of your intention of playing games on people and the clumsy amateur manipulation is all over the places. I'm sorry to burst your bubbles again...You obviously don't understand what 政教分离原则 in democratic societies means. Let me try to be more specific. It means the separation between CHURCH and GOVERNMENT. It does not mean the separation between RELIGION and POLITICS. It does not mean people with religious belief in democratic societies should be banned from expressing their views on politics. It is more ridiculous even using this principle as the reason or excuse to single out a particular group of people and to ban them from quoting other people's views or articles not even written by them if the views or articles happen to criticize a particular government or a particular party.
In case you don't know, religion always has more or less connection with politics, whether you like it or not. For example, if I remember correctly, the US president G. W. Bush is Christian, the former president Clinton is Christian, the former US Attorney General John Ashcroft is Mormon. One more example in case you don't know, it was the big population of Christian conservative voters who constituted a substantial part of George W. Bush's voter base and voted him to the White House twice. I guess now you can see, similar to FLG members, these people have religious believes too. Their participation in politics is much more than just quoting views or articles from others. Some of these people are even professional politicians. Their paticipation or day to day work in politics seems to violate your so called "加拿大和西方社会政教分离原则" much more than what those FLG members did which was just quoting what views or articles from others. Do you want to ban them too?...
It's a well-known fact that in democratic societies, ordinary people regardless their religious background are protected by constitutions to express their views, to choose a party to vote for or against, and can even be voted to president or prime minister, let alone quote someone else views or articles. But strangely and interestingly in the same democratic society such as Canada, a forum moderator at CFC singles out a particular group of people discriminatively and openly banning them from quoting other people's views or articles. Is this group of people second class citizens? second class human being? Is this a policy you initiated yourself? or you are doing it on behalf of CFC? And why these funny incidents keep happening at CFC and nowhere else?
You may say that the proposed policy is not final yet or it hasn't been implemented. That's true, but your INTENTION and PREFERENCE are quite obvious and clear by raising this type of unfair and stupid policies alone, not to mention what you said "我个人倾向于删除". It's funny you even call it "但会在程序正义的情况下删除" without knowing what a basic concept such as "加拿大和西方社会政教分离原则" is...
In case you may ask, why religious leaders in Canada and US and other democratic countries do not seem to be very vocal on politics? The short answer is they don't have to because everyone in democratic societies has the right to express his or her views including quoting views or articles from others, has the right to choose and vote, etc. These rights are protected by constitutions. So basically people will decide or take care of the direction of their country in every 4 years. That's only true in the case of democratic societies. On the other hand, throughout history there have been many examples that religious leaders and ordinary people with various religion believes criticized authorities or standed up against injustice in society or in government. For example the archbishop Desmond Tutu of Anglican Church in the South Africa is an prominant example as a religious leader to criticize the former South African government. He later won the Nobel Peace Price and the Gandhi Peace Prize. Speaking of Gandhi who was a Buddhist (if I recall correctly), many participants or followers in Gandhi's Non-Violence Movement against the former British government were believers of Hinduism and Buddhism. Examples like these show that it can be a good thing that even religious leaders or leaders with strong religious inclination speak out or get involved in politics against injustice in society or in goverment.
In short, people in democratic societies expressing their views including quoting other people's view or articles are simply exercising one of their basic human rights and are protected by constitutions. It has nothing to do with the violation of the principle of separation between church and government.
Sometimes it's amusing to see your games or tricks are unfolding and to see how you are playing them on people trying to muddle the water or to mislead people. I guess you really think you are the smartest guy on earth, and rest of us are just too dumb, huh?...
Just one more thing before attending to my pigs. Next time before peddling your theory or whatever you call it, take a deep breath, then sit back, spend sometime to read and understand some very basic concepts in democracy such as "separation between church and government", "exercising basic human rights", and the difference between the two. By doing so you will be able to understand that exercising basic human rights DOES NOT equal violation of the principle of separation between church and government. Otherwise, people may cast more doubt either on your theory or on your character as a person...
By the way, seeing your not very impressive tricks reminds me that I haven't been able to get around to respond to your previous comment addressed for me. Sorry for being lazy, and of course being busy is another reason. I will try to reply later, and thanks for reminding me of that. Please do not hesitate to let me know if there is ANY inacuracy in my quotations of your arguments...
Happy Chinese New Year to All...
wushuren
综合杂谈名誉斑竹
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取决于是该功法个人的思考，还是该功法发动的一致性运动，即使是个一致性的运动，此论坛也不想违背程序和民主原则禁止个人思考型的发言，不管他是什么信仰背景。例如布什总统信仰基督教只是他的个人信仰，他来这个论坛也不会被禁止个人发言，且有的基督徒并不关心政治也不参与任何政治活动,甚至有的基督徒的某一政治主张和布什总统截然相反，可见现代基督教的非政治性。而该功法现在是采用整体一致行动言论方式，和作为被西方司法系统判定的宗教运动来参与政治，这就是俺心目中的违反政教分离原则的，当然你可以不同意。他的下一步就是取得政教合一政权，虽然可以口头上表示不这样做，但这是有先例的。
天主教曾经用反迫害的方法取得了政治权利，造成中世纪的黑暗，在近代的民主革命以后才被纠正过来。该功法就处于这样的阶段，和采用类似的做法，且经常引用当年天主教反迫害的经历来说明自己做法的合理性。
你说的个人的言论自由在这里是按照程序正义的原则得到保护的，不管他是什么信仰背景，即使禁止了大段原文转帖，也没有禁止该功法背景的个人用自己的话来说那些内容。采用了程序正义，举报程序，限制了斑竹权利，保护少数，兼顾少数服从多数原则，适当调控，民主通过议案和规则，按照版规执行，使用判例累计，甚至采用陪审团原则。这样的做法优于你们功的背景的网站论坛管理。作为非法轮背景的网站能做到这点，作为有倾向性的斑竹能够在管理中抛弃自己的倾向性做到这点，我却看不到您的任何欣慰和支持。
我真的看到了得寸进尺。为此，我将在那个投票帖里面奉上我的“同意删除”投票。我本来不想这样做。
另外您触犯了挑战斑竹的论坛规则。您可以用其他的隐讳的不指名的方式说出自己的意见。如果反对请到那里投上您的反对票，而不是到这里来教训版主，而且用了自己对政教分离原则的歪曲理解。
心中动了刀，忍字的心头之刀显化于外，打了多少笑脸也掩盖不住。这也是基督教无数人派创始人作为真善仁的坚持者对真善忍坚持者的一点小小建议。要向内修，难道你们的李大师不是这么告诉你们的？难道他暗地里的盼望的就是你们的心中之刀显化于外？
你忙，难道我就不忙？我的方式很简单，教训挑战版主包括挑战民主管理和程序正义原则，违反挑战版主的版规那里写得很清楚，是不需要举报的，对不起，如果我没空，您知道会遇到什么情况，我的解释已经很清楚，那么下次就不解释了。有问题和进一步的意见请向网主反映。
拜年，新春快乐。
天主教曾经用反迫害的方法取得了政治权利，造成中世纪的黑暗，在近代的民主革命以后才被纠正过来。该功法就处于这样的阶段，和采用类似的做法，且经常引用当年天主教反迫害的经历来说明自己做法的合理性。
你说的个人的言论自由在这里是按照程序正义的原则得到保护的，不管他是什么信仰背景，即使禁止了大段原文转帖，也没有禁止该功法背景的个人用自己的话来说那些内容。采用了程序正义，举报程序，限制了斑竹权利，保护少数，兼顾少数服从多数原则，适当调控，民主通过议案和规则，按照版规执行，使用判例累计，甚至采用陪审团原则。这样的做法优于你们功的背景的网站论坛管理。作为非法轮背景的网站能做到这点，作为有倾向性的斑竹能够在管理中抛弃自己的倾向性做到这点，我却看不到您的任何欣慰和支持。
我真的看到了得寸进尺。为此，我将在那个投票帖里面奉上我的“同意删除”投票。我本来不想这样做。
另外您触犯了挑战斑竹的论坛规则。您可以用其他的隐讳的不指名的方式说出自己的意见。如果反对请到那里投上您的反对票，而不是到这里来教训版主，而且用了自己对政教分离原则的歪曲理解。
心中动了刀，忍字的心头之刀显化于外，打了多少笑脸也掩盖不住。这也是基督教无数人派创始人作为真善仁的坚持者对真善忍坚持者的一点小小建议。要向内修，难道你们的李大师不是这么告诉你们的？难道他暗地里的盼望的就是你们的心中之刀显化于外？
你忙，难道我就不忙？我的方式很简单，教训挑战版主包括挑战民主管理和程序正义原则，违反挑战版主的版规那里写得很清楚，是不需要举报的，对不起，如果我没空，您知道会遇到什么情况，我的解释已经很清楚，那么下次就不解释了。有问题和进一步的意见请向网主反映。
拜年，新春快乐。
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如果真是讲“功”的，或者劝人真，善，忍的。我还是非常支持。毕竟任何宗教都有其存在的理由。
可是转过来的帖子都是攻击中国政府，老共，甚至华人群体的。
有的还造谣，中伤。已经超出宗教的范围。完全变成一个政治组织。
这样的帖子，一定要删。
不过，显然老李的法力不如老ＷＵ信仰的神法力大，也就只好靠老ＷＵ手下留情了。
可是转过来的帖子都是攻击中国政府，老共，甚至华人群体的。
有的还造谣，中伤。已经超出宗教的范围。完全变成一个政治组织。
这样的帖子，一定要删。
不过，显然老李的法力不如老ＷＵ信仰的神法力大，也就只好靠老ＷＵ手下留情了。