Be careful when you deal with a Chinese builder

[mzhuang]

I tell my story here to remind you that you should be careful when you deal with a Chinese builder.

There is a Chinese builder in Ottawa who can build custom house. After we saw the model house, we decide to let the builder build a house in rural area in their land. Although some people didn't agree on our idea to let this Chinese builder to build a house, but we believed that he could build a high quality house for us as the one that he showed us. We had spent about 2 month on designing and discussion. Finally we signed an agreement about 2 weeks ago.

Of course we went through the legal process and let my lawyer to review the agreement. My lawyer sugguested to add some sections to protect customer right if the well or septic system have problem. At the night before we should sign the modified agreement, we received an email from his real estate agent:

"I regret to inform you that after long and very hard consideration by clients they have decided to put the home for sale on the open market. They appreciate all your effort, time and patience. However unforeseen increases
In construction materials have made the previous negotiated price very hard to guarantee.".

I was so surprised to see the email since only an hour earlier, the builder called me to ask me to book an appointment with his agent to sign the agreement again. A day earlier, he said in his email that "As both you and I spend a lot of time on it, we do want to go forward and sign the agreement with you."

I wonder if anybody had the similar experience with a builder - the builder cancelled agreement after 10 days because he thought the price is too low! He even didn't discuss the price with us or call us before he cancelled the agreement. Maybe he found a buyer who could offer higher price. However the agreement with us was still valid.

He ruin his reputation in one day! How can I trust this kind of people again? We put our believe in the company by planning to investe life saving money on the house. How could they treat us in this way? We has waste 2 months on the house!

So be careful when you deal with this Chinese builder!

 

[hello123]

What are we suppose to be aware of? " this Chinese builder?"

If you are going to make a complain at least you should get the name of the builder.

 

[labor]

最初由 mzhuang 发布
I tell my story here to remind you that you should be careful when you deal with a Chinese builder.

There is a Chinese builder in Ottawa who can build custom house. After we saw the model house, we decide to let the builder build a house in rural area in their land. Although some people didn't agree on our idea to let this Chinese builder to build a house, but we believed that he could build a high quality house for us as the one that he showed us. We had spent about 2 month on designing and discussion. Finally we signed an agreement about 2 weeks ago.

Of course we went through the legal process and let my lawyer to review the agreement. My lawyer sugguested to add some sections to protect customer right if the well or septic system have problem. At the night before we should sign the modified agreement, we received an email from his real estate agent:

"I regret to inform you that after long and very hard consideration by clients they have decided to put the home for sale on the open market. They appreciate all your effort, time and patience. However unforeseen increases
In construction materials have made the previous negotiated price very hard to guarantee.".

I was so surprised to see the email since only an hour earlier, the builder called me to ask me to book an appointment with his agent to sign the agreement again. A day earlier, he said in his email that "As both you and I spend a lot of time on it, we do want to go forward and sign the agreement with you."

I wonder if anybody had the similar experience with a builder - the builder cancelled agreement after 10 days because he thought the price is too low! He even didn't discuss the price with us or call us before he cancelled the agreement. Maybe he found a buyer who could offer higher price. However the agreement with us was still valid.

He ruin his reputation in one day! How can I trust this kind of people again? We put our believe in the company by planning to investe life saving money on the house. How could they treat us in this way? We has waste 2 months on the house!

So be careful when you deal with this Chinese builder!

概括一下这个帖子: 在买卖双方即将签合同的前一个晚上，卖主改主意了，不卖了。

提前概括一下以后的帖子: 在买卖双方即将签合同的前一个晚上，买主改主意了，不买了。

经验是: 提前一天签合同。

 

[labor]

按照常识来说，你和那个builder的利益是对立的，也就是说，你每争取到一分钱，他就少赚一分钱。

你在过去的两个月里，所做的一切工作，肯定是为了你自己的利益最大化，也就是说使得那个builder的利益最小化，这使得那个builder的经济承受力到了极限，而你又准备再次修改合同，附加新条款。於是这些新条款，成了压垮骆驼的最后一根稻草。

生意没成，双方都有原因，如果当初你让出一部分利益，骆驼可能不会被压垮。既然没签合同，双方都没责任，但是生意没成，上CFC来毁坏对方名誉，有失厚道。

以上评论，基於你对事件的叙述。

 

[陨石]

I want to build a custom house too.
Who is this Chinese builder?

 

[mds]

最初由 labor 发布
按照常识来说，你和那个builder的利益是对立的，也就是说，你每争取到一分钱，他就少赚一分钱。

你在过去的两个月里，所做的一切工作，肯定是为了你自己的利益最大化，也就是说使得那个builder的利益最小化，这使得那个builder的经济承受力到了极限，而你又准备再次修改合同，附加新条款。於是这些新条款，成了压垮骆驼的最后一根稻草。

生意没成，双方都有原因，如果当初你让出一部分利益，骆驼可能不会被压垮。既然没签合同，双方都没责任，但是生意没成，上CFC来毁坏对方名誉，有失厚道。

以上评论，基於你对事件的叙述。

而且，你这还是只根据当事一方的一面之词对事件的叙述得出的评论。

 

[mzhuang]

The agreement was signed but it needed to add some sections that my lawyer ask to do so!

You see their ads in this web site so I don't need to specify the name. Some people don't believe Chinese builders provide good quality work. I ddid think they were wrong. However after this event I need to add one point - Chinese builders may not take law/legal agreement seriously. My lawyer told me that they should not cancel that agreement for this reason.

During these 2 months, we never asked to rdeuce any price. We just told him the budget to build the house. Then he came out the price based on our design. The price he give us was = all cost of construction + all other fees +land cost + 12% of total construction cost for his project management fee. Of course it is much higher than we planned so I redid the mortgage application for 50k more! Then late, he found out he forgot some items in the list and he gave these for free. He also said he would give us the interest for my deposit (38k). But I just told him to reduce $500 (much less than he would pay me back) in the total price as the interest. For the price he quote, a lot of thing are basic - the lowest price items like Minto provides. So at the end, we would pay a lot of money for upgrade (we planned 10K for upgrade!). We already started to shop around to buy some discount hardware to save moeny because we were told that we could shop some hardware by ourselves!

My friends told me that I was lucky. If the builder wanted to cancel the agreement after we put current house for sell, that is even worse!

 

[mzhuang]

Please note - I just remind you to be careful when you deal with a Chinese builder. I didn't intend to ruin his reputation here! But for us, we will not go to this Chinese builder to build a custom house after what happened to us. We will use the builder my co-worker recommend to me later. Since we live in Canada, we should obey the law here!

For quality of work, it depends on sub-contractors a builder hires. Please don't mix the quality with Chinese builders. I had bad experience with non-Chinese builder. They painted our h/w floor with sands! Since they re-did the work twice, we could not complaint about it. Otherewise, I would have taken them to BBB.

 

[疼不疼啊]

up

不明白,没搞懂,如果违约,或违反合同不可以走法?过程吗?

 

[mzhuang]

Yes, if it was a non-Chinese builder, we would. We knew this builder through my friend and we don't want to hurt each other by this matter since the lost was only 2 months time and some hardware we bought (already pass return date), not 38k deposit or more. We just took as a lesson. Also let other people know that be very careful when dealing with Chinese builders because some Chinese builders may not take legal matter seriously!

 

[novadalhomes]

We don't care about the buyer mention our company name. Our company is Novadal Homes. The website is novadalhomes.com. As far as we know we are the only Chinese builder registered constructing custom home in Ottawa. Just want to tell some facts about this story.

1. We signed the purchase and sale agreement for building a custom home for the buyer on Jun 13, 2007 on condition of finance and lawyer review, expire date 5 days. After sign, the buyer start to revise the legal clauses, schedule and the price, etc. The buyer sent us email said they cannot clear the condition in time and they want to draft a new agreement. So the signed agreement become void automatically. The re-negotiation begins. Until June 24, 2007 we haven’t signed the new agreement yet. Then we decide to stop the negotiation on June 24, 2007.

2. Regarding the quality, we have shown the buyer the model home we built, and they are happy with the quality.

3. For the past 2 months, as a builder, we have provided as much detail services as we could including: show the lot and discuss the site plan, change the design per buyer’s request, provide detail pricing, introduce the buyer our standard and products, discuss the upgrades, etc.

4. No builder do not want to sell their houses to customer. The reason that we decide to stop the negotiation is that we realize that we can never satisfy this customer.

5. Our 12% management fee is way below the market rate and ONLY account on actual construction cost. There is no extra management fee charge for land, legal, loan interest, insurance, etc.

6. The standard for this custom home is much higher than builder’s house, including full brick, hardwood floor and ceramic floor through out, custom design kitchen, custom select plumbing, upgraded trim (5’’ baseboard 3’’-1/2 casing), upgrade electrical with 200A service, many pot lights, cedar screen porch, etc.

 

[labor]

最初由 mzhuang 发布

I just remind you ......

Yes, if it was a non-Chinese builder, we would. We knew this builder through my friend and we don't want to hurt each other by this matter

算了吧，你上CFC的目的并不是什么提醒其他网友，而是想毁一下对方，因为你自己也清楚，从法律层面上来说，你并不比对方有优势。

我好奇的是，如果是正式的合同，签字之后怎么可以修改。如果有新的合同，前一个合同还是否有效。

同样的价钱，不同的设计，cost完全不同。从你现在上CFC的气急败坏和对方的退出来看，如果按你的方案进行，你赚了大便宜，而对方基本已经无利可图。

这种没赚到便宜，就上CFC毁人的事，CFC上已经不是头一次了。

 

[labor]

最初由 novadalhomes 发布
1. We signed the purchase and sale agreement for building a custom home for the buyer on Jun 13, 2007 on condition of finance and lawyer review, expire date 5 days. After sign, the buyer start to revise the legal clauses, schedule and the price, etc. The buyer sent us email said they cannot clear the condition in time and they want to draft a new agreement. So the signed agreement become void automatically. The re-negotiation begins. Until June 24, 2007 we haven’t signed the new agreement yet. Then we decide to stop the negotiation on June 24, 2007.

楼主，按照这哥们说的，你自己废止了前一个合同，而在新合同签字之前，对方退出了。

也就是说，你自己给了对方一个从前一个合同退出的机会。

不过，你的目的基本达到了 －－ 上网毁一下对方。

 

[northernwolf]

而且那个builder也损失了两个月的时间。这种事情如果不满意应该去法庭，而不是上网诋毁对方。

 

[novadalhomes]

One thing I forgot. There is no deposit in this deal. They never give us deposit as they suppose to do according to the 1st agreement. We don't owe the buyer any penny.