Free Tibet ?????!!!!!!

[只在乎曾经拥有]

[MEDIA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9QNKB34cJo[/MEDIA]

 

[Stephen唐士明]

The writer of the video writes "Chinese" with a small "c". Would I be correct to assume that this person is an enemy of China? Since you are posting this video, are you also a hater of China?

P.S. I just got thrown out of a "communist" forum for discussing the topic of Tibet with the "fascists" there.

西藏抗議未歇 據報甘肅夏河也發生藏人抗議 - 欧拓社区

 

[lindamy]

The writer of the video writes "Chinese" with a small "c". Would I be correct to assume that this person is an enemy of China? Since you are posting this video, are you also a hater of China?

P.S. I just got thrown out of a "communist" forum for discussing the topic of Tibet with the "fascists" there.

西藏抗議未歇 據報甘肅夏河也發生藏人抗議 - 欧拓社区

吹毛求疵，一个小写的C就成为中国的敌人了？从各种角度看录相的作者都比你爱中国。

不止在中国呢，世界各地都有脏民在示威，闹事。到处制造骚乱就能说明他们有理？

 

[Stephen唐士明]

吹毛求疵，一个小写的C就成为中国的敌人了？

我在諷刺那個人。一般來說，憤青的水平不是很高...

从各种角度看录相的作者都比你爱中国。

我當然不愛中國。 本人很尊敬你們的傳統文化，可是我如何可以愛上另外個國家？　

不止在中国呢，世界各地都有脏民在示威，闹事。到处制造骚乱就能说明他们有理？

請問。這是漢族打藏族或者藏族打漢族？

[ame="http://www.dailymotion.com/search/tibet/video/x4qpxh_violence-au-tibet_news"]Video Violence au Tibet - Tibet, Lhasa - Dailymotion Share Your Videos[/ame]

 

[只在乎曾经拥有]

我在諷刺那個人。

那個人的英文水平可能不是特别高， 但你唐士明的英文水平不一定比他强。

如果一个“typo"值得諷刺的话， 你所写的英文 "The writer of the video writes ... " 就很不地道。 至于哪里错就不用我点出来了吧。

其实， 我还可以挑出你英文的其它毛病。 但那不是我感兴趣做的事。

 

[Stephen唐士明]

那個人的英文水平可能不是特别高， 但你唐士明的英文水平不一定比他强。

如果一个“typo"值得諷刺的话， 你所写的英文 "The writer of the video writes ... " 就很不地道。 至于哪里错就不用我点出来了吧。

其实， 我还可以挑出你英文的其它毛病。 但那不是我感兴趣做的事。

Well, it certainly wasn't very good style. Thanks.

P.S. Can you answer my question about the video I posted? What nationality are the people in the fight?

 

[chaotropic]

閣下, 來自另外的文化, 夷可能無意中得罪人家。 如果這樣, 很抱歉! 我的目標就是使用邏輯來辯論而不是濫用感覺來吵架。 如果您認為本人(關於華夏)無知, 請指教!!! 敬上, 美國佬

Well, it certainly wasn't very good style. Thanks.

P.S. Can you answer my question about the video I posted? What nationality are the people in the fight?

What do you want to debate about? Choose a topic and I will debate you, in english or Chinese.

P.S. We are Chinese and we are proud and we are winning this world.

 

[只在乎曾经拥有]

联合国门前， 纽约警察执法毫不手软！！！

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0rprGKO9-8[/media]

 

[chaotropic]

Rather than a specific debate, feel free to comment on what I write. I am quite ignorant about China - and can certainly learn from you.

However, please avoid insults - this is not intellectually constructive.

first, your englisch need a little fix:

feel free to comment on what I write=what I have written

you claim to be a yankee and you cannot write good englisch, how can you communicate in Chinese, the world's most advanced language

you were talking about intellectually, what intellect do you have to be intellectually constrcutive?

We are Chinese and proud

 

[chaotropic]

YouTube - Free Tibet, March 14, 2008, United Nations

Learn From NYPD
the nypd did a good job; the law is the law; hope police in China will learn from them

 

[lindamy]

我在諷刺那個人。一般來說，憤青的水平不是很高...

我當然不愛中國。 本人很尊敬你們的傳統文化，可是我如何可以愛上另外個國家？　

請問。這是漢族打藏族或者藏族打漢族？

抱歉不知唐先生不是中国人。

最近在世界上到处闹事的都是藏人，这还有疑问吗？很多电视镜头上显示的是当地国警察，比如印度警察，并非汉人，殴打驱散违反治安是当地警察应尽的职责。负责如何保障其他居民的人身安全，和正常秩序？

 

[只在乎曾经拥有]

西方游客目睹藏人残忍攻击汉人
Tourists speak of shock and fear at Tibet riots - Times Online

 

[夜色]

Rather than a specific debate, feel free to comment on what I write. I am quite ignorant about China - and can certainly learn from you.

However, please avoid insults - this is not intellectually constructive.

I agree, insults are rather pointless. However, this is a sensitive issue, and the Western's double standard response to the fates of the Tibetan protesters (or mobs, as the violence some of them demonstrated were far from peaceful) who were supposedly subjugated or shot, and the fates of the innocent bystanders who were beaten and killed simply because they looked Han, have enraged many Chinese around the world. Excuse their language, but understand their feelings.
Regarding that video you posted, it is hard to tell - however given the witness accounts on Times, I would suppose that is a Tibetan (or a bunch of Tibetans) beating on a Han-Chinese.

I don't know how much you know of China, as you seem to be interested in the culture but unaware of the current state of affairs or sentiments of the general Chinese populace. I am happy, however, that you would at least quietly ask for our side of the story, a trait I simply don't see in a lot of Westerners, specifically white people. The point of that video, even though it had a lot of subjective personal emotions mixed in it, is to try to show the world what we Chinese think of the situation.

Here is a brief history from Melvyn Goldstein's book "The Snow Lion and the Dragon", summarized by myself:
Tibet had been tied to China since the Yuan dynasty, and gained its status of subordination in the Qing dynasty, as the Qing government stationed troops and sent magistrates to oversee Tibetan affairs. During the period where Qing dynasty collapse and ROC took over, Tibetan was taken back by the 13th Dalai who succeeded, briefly, in expelling all Chinese officials instated by the Qing government. However, the ROC leaders were determined to reclaim all they inherited from the Qing government, including Tibet. The ROC military presence in Tibet proved that Tibet was not able, as well as seemed reluctant to claim their independence.
Not soon after, the British India government sought to intervene because the ROC presence in Tibet had been disruptive to their rule on the Tibet-India border. The British forced the ROC and Tibet to have a conference in Simla, where the Simla convention was signed, and Tibet declared an autonomous region that had its own officials with its own customs and laws. Neither the ROC nor Tibetan representative was happy, especially on the matter of where to draw the line between political Tibet and China. In the end, an agreement cannot be reached, due to Britain's unwillingness to bypass the ROC authorities because that would a tantamount of formal recognition to Tibet independence, which Britain was unwilling to see. However, Henry McMahon managed to sign a bilateral note with both ROC and Tibet, so that even though Simla convention was not signed, both sides were bound to it. At this point, Tibet was politically part of sovereign China, but in a sense, is a state within a state.

Afterwards, a group of young Tibetan officials sought to modernize Tibet, by introducing Western methods to construct a military of their own. The sough British help, which was promptly provided since the British wished to see a strong and unhappy Tibet under reluctant Chinese rule. This effort of modernization was supported by the Dalai Lama at first, but soon the monastic and aristocratic elites, who form the conservatives in Tibet, opposed vehemently. They argued that the radical changes the young officials were bringing about were harmful to Tibet's theocratic structure, and the Western influences would greatly harm Tibet's Buddhism traditions. They succeeded eventually, and Dalai decided to stop the modernization movement by demoting the group of officials overseeing it.

China, at the time, was in deep turmoil as the warlords battled one another in an unofficial civil war. However, the central government never abandoned its claims over Tibet, even though it was unable to construct any functional governing bodies, nor had the power to do so.
However, their involvement in international affairs had effectively gained Western World's recognition. The US, in 1943, officially acknowledged Tibet to be a part of China.

In 1950, PLA moved into Tibet to reclaim the area, but with a gradualist approach that offered Tibetans their autonomic status. Lhasa gave in, but soon both Lhasa and voices inside the CCP started to feel discontent about the situation. Riots broke out in 1959, which pushed the gradualist policy of Mao aside, and brought about hard line attitudes, which combined with the chaotic culture revolution soon after, caused the destruction of much of Tibetan traditional culture. After Deng Xiaoping's open market policy became the guideline of Chinese developments, the central government again took a soft approach by offering Tibetans more freedom to exercise their religion, and protection of traditional Tibetan culture. Monasteries were rebuilt, and religious practises were resumed - but obviously not as much as before. However this approach was not appreciated, as Dalai was still in a position to seek independence then, which China would not allow.

Dalai and Beijing had been in a deadlock since then, missing vital oppurtunities for reconcilliation here and there. Beijing had been switching strategies from soft to hard to soft again, and is now pouring money into Tibet for rapid economical developments while largely overlooking the spiritual needs of the Tibetans, which is causing discontent and unrest despite the privileges offered to Tibetans for their minority status. Dalai seemed to have taken on a more moderate view and openly stated he would not claim independence, as it is not practical - however, his action in 1994 regarding Panchen Lama's reincarnation seemed to speak otherwise: that he was still unwilling to work with Beijing to arrive at a compromise.

----------------------------------------------------------------
What I have provided here is largely on account of Tibetans and their feelings - why some of them are discontent. This, by no means, says that I am for violent behavior and will forgive what the mobster did. Beijing's policy may have created a rift between Tibetans and Hans, but resorting to violence on innocent civilians is simply appalling. I hope the murderers are arrested and tried.

Basically, the Tibet problem boils down to this: Tibetans, at least the Geluks who follow the Dalai devoutly, may be more or less nationalistic (or Tibetanistic, rather, since even Dalai have given up the notion of independence) and wish for a Tibetan ethnic governing body, but we, as Chinese who have been working and improving Tibet's living standards for the past 50 years, despite their ungratefulness, are not going to give up the land that we had come to recognize as our own (and I can assure you, pointing fingers will invite only retorts on how the West treated its colonized people back a few centuries - and this goes on in loops). This difference in ideals leads to bitter strifes, but it is not a simple black-and-white issue that can be solved with shouting propagandas at each other, as the interests and emotions of too many parties are intermixed in it.

I wish for a peaceful compromise that could satisfy both parties, and hope that Tibetans will be able to live harmoniously with Han Chinese, but this can only be done with understanding from both parties, as well as West. As of now, the West's involvement in Tibet had been mostly counterproductive, and this new outcry for Tibet independence and threats to boycott Olympics (I can't help myself but laugh at this one) will do nothing but generating more recoils from Beijing and the general Chinese populace, making a peaceful and fruitful solution more and more unlikely.


Hope this was helpful enough for you.

 

[Stephen唐士明]

...最近在世界上到处闹事的都是藏人，这还有疑问吗？

他們的國家被漢族佔領。

很多电视镜头上显示的是当地国警察，比如印度警察，并非汉人，殴打驱散违反治安是当地警察应尽的职责。负责如何保障其他居民的人身安全，和正常秩序？

:blowzy:

說實話，本人有一點不道德。對我來說，西藏獨立不獨立無所謂。

 

[Stephen唐士明]

I agree, insults are rather pointless. However, this is a sensitive issue, and the Western's double standard response to the fates of the Tibetan protesters (or mobs, as the violence some of them demonstrated were far from peaceful) who were supposedly subjugated or shot, and the fates of the innocent bystanders who were beaten and killed simply because they looked Han, have enraged many Chinese around the world. Excuse their language, but understand their feelings.

萬一是維吾爾，我們會同情漢族。

Regarding that video you posted, it is hard to tell - however given the witness accounts on Times, I would suppose that is a Tibetan (or a bunch of Tibetans) beating on a Han-Chinese.

或者藏族毆打藏奸。

I don't know how much you know of China, as you seem to be interested in the culture but unaware of the current state of affairs or sentiments of the general Chinese populace.

法西斯之沙文主義?

I am happy, however, that you would at least quietly ask for our side of the story, a trait I simply don't see in a lot of Westerners, specifically white people.

http://www.revleft.com/vb/36889-20818-26377-t71973/index.html

Beijing's policy may have created a rift between Tibetans and Hans, but resorting to violence on innocent civilians is simply appalling. I hope the murderers are arrested and tried.

藏族殺了漢族警察或者軍隊，這我可以接受。但是如果他們殺了漢族平民，這就是恐怖主義。

but we, as Chinese who have been working and improving Tibet's living standards for the past 50 years, despite their ungratefulness,

同樣，日本人可能不懂為何你們漢族不感謝他們為了他們發展滿洲國...

but it is not a simple black-and-white issue that can be solved with shouting propagandas at each other,

當然。

I wish for a peaceful compromise that could satisfy both parties, and hope that Tibetans will be able to live harmoniously with Han Chinese,

你們離開他們的國家？

Hope this was helpful enough for you.

是的。謝謝。