This is new thing for me.
Anyone who has a student in this program, would you please give more information about this program. Should the kid go or not go
Thanks!!!
Renew 2010-02-01:
Just found a very good website:
http://askville.amazon.com/Internati...uestId=4577271
Share it with other parents who are interested in the IB program or AP Program:
Anyone who has a student in this program, would you please give more information about this program. Should the kid go or not go
Thanks!!!
Renew 2010-02-01:
Just found a very good website:
http://askville.amazon.com/Internati...uestId=4577271
Share it with other parents who are interested in the IB program or AP Program:
[FONT=verdana, sans-serif]I am a university teacher, and I have also taught both AP and IB high school classes (math, including higher level IB and BC calculus), and am continuing to teach both. I also teach junior high school (one honors class in eighth grade as a volunteer for the public school district). I think all that can be reasonably done is to fairly list the pros and cons of the IB program against the AP program. Personally, I don't think a reasonable argument can be made that one is "better" than the other, at least not universally.
Pros of IB over AP:
Unlike the AP program, the IB program offers a separate high school diploma, which in itself has meaning to most good universities. In addition to completing 6 IB level courses and exams in high school, the IB diploma means that a student has written an extended essay, performed a reasonable amount of community service, participated in the arts, and been involved in some kind of athletics in their last two years of high school. Many good universities (e.g., UCLA) offer either preferred or automatic admission to students with an IB diploma, along with sophomore standing. The IB diploma means that a student is at least supposedly guaranteed to have a sort of balance in their studies and lives, while the AP program is completely modular. A student can get a lot of AP credit by taking only math and science exams, and can therefore get out of high school with very poor language arts and history skills. High school courses that are not IB or AP do not compare very well across different districts, and sometimes even from school to school within the same district, so the IB program has a set standard that tells prospective universities what that student has done in high school. The AP program only does this if a student takes only AP courses, and relatively few schools offer such a comprehensive program.
IB is internationally recognized, so for those who think they may need or want to move during high school, or participate in a foreign exchange program, the IB program allows that without the student having to fall behind in any way. This also means that a student who wants to apply to foreign universities is given a universal measure of his/her high school education.
IB exams are comprehensive, and cover a huge amount of material, and this forces students to remember more than what they learned in their senior year. This can make IB students better prepared for college. Students also tend to see more world history, literature from countries other than America, mathematical notation that is universal, etc.
Cons of IB vs. AP
IB's answer to competing with the AP folks is to offer a modular program that is supposed to be equivalent to AP exams. The modular approach offers certificates to students who do not choose to go after the diploma, but who want some IB credit. Unfortunately, I have found that most good universities offer up to twice as much credit for equivalent AP test scores as for individual IB test scores. IB is accepted by good universities as a whole package, but the universities do not seem to like the modular approach to IB. Many schools offer no credit at all for standard level IB exams (unless they are taken as part of the IB diploma), and only a nominal amount of credit for the higher level IB exams. There are some good reasons for this. IB is so broad that certain material that is expected of college freshman is not covered in the IB curriculum. If students are to skip certain courses and go on to more advanced ones, this missing material can be a problem. On the other hand, IB students tend to have had an introduction to more advanced material that AP students do not have, so it may even out in the end.
IB seems to see themselves as competing with AP, and I guess they are in a sense. Unfortunately, this has led to a total lack of flexibility when students have a valid conflict on an IB exam day. If a student has to take an AP exam in history on the same day as the IB exam in math, the IB folks absolutely will not allow make up exams. This lack of flexibility causes many students to have to give up one or the other exam, and that is a huge shame. I feel that these programs should be there for the good of the students, not the institutions.
I teach a combo AP/higher level IB course in math, and I know that other teachers in my school do this in other subjects as well. It is difficult to cover all the material, so I had to choose my IB option carefully, and then I have to fill in a lot of material that AP covers but IB does not (and vice versa). I do manage to do that, and I have so far had a 100% passing rate on both AP and IB exams. I've noticed that all my students have gotten 5's on the AP BC Calculus exam, and yet the highest IB score was a 5/7. When I looked at the sub-scores last year, I found that the students had received the lowest scores in their strongest subject. The fact that this particular topic was a strength was confirmed by the across the board 5's on the AP/BC exam on the same material. I found that our IB exams had gone to a country that hates the U.S., and I couldn't help but feel that this had a negative influence on the grading of my students. Therefore, I think the grading process of IB could be improved by choosing randomly, but with some restraint when two countries are huge adversaries.
The IB curriculum is somewhat different from the AP curriculum in its philosophy. Because it is international, there is much less focus on subjects like U.S. history, and more focus on world history. The "options" available in the higher level IB courses give the teachers a choice on their focus, but there is still a broad based curriculum that must be followed. In most subjects, this means that students are given a broad outline of the entire topic, and don't go into a lot of depth on many of the subtopics. For example, AP math concentrates mostly on calculus, which is the required curriculum for the first 2-3 quarters (2 semesters) in most U.S. universities. IB specifically omits certain AP topics, and instead gives students an introduction to many different upper division topics in math (probability theory, complex analysis, etc.). The same approach holds in other subjects such as English and history. This approach can be difficult for some students, since there is often no feel of a logical progression throughout the year, and there is not a lot of depth in any of these topics except for the "option" chosen by the instructor. However, this approach also gives student a broader base in their view of various subjects, and gets away from the "American only" view of the world.
Finally, the IB curriculum can somewhat limit student's choices. For example, my daughter wanted to take French, and she also wanted an IB diploma. At the time, the only IB language that was offered was Spanish. My daughter had to give up the IB diploma, because it was more important to her to take French (my husband was raised in Paris). She was able to take AP French, but not IB French at her high school. The IB program is difficult to teach, and takes special training that the AP program does not require, at least not so much.
I hope this gives you some idea of the pros and cons of the two programs, though I'm certain I missed some stuff. As far as the university preparation goes, my experience as a university faculty member has shown me that both IB and AP students are about equally prepared.
[/FONT]
Sources: my experience as a high school and university teacher.
Pros of IB over AP:
Unlike the AP program, the IB program offers a separate high school diploma, which in itself has meaning to most good universities. In addition to completing 6 IB level courses and exams in high school, the IB diploma means that a student has written an extended essay, performed a reasonable amount of community service, participated in the arts, and been involved in some kind of athletics in their last two years of high school. Many good universities (e.g., UCLA) offer either preferred or automatic admission to students with an IB diploma, along with sophomore standing. The IB diploma means that a student is at least supposedly guaranteed to have a sort of balance in their studies and lives, while the AP program is completely modular. A student can get a lot of AP credit by taking only math and science exams, and can therefore get out of high school with very poor language arts and history skills. High school courses that are not IB or AP do not compare very well across different districts, and sometimes even from school to school within the same district, so the IB program has a set standard that tells prospective universities what that student has done in high school. The AP program only does this if a student takes only AP courses, and relatively few schools offer such a comprehensive program.
IB is internationally recognized, so for those who think they may need or want to move during high school, or participate in a foreign exchange program, the IB program allows that without the student having to fall behind in any way. This also means that a student who wants to apply to foreign universities is given a universal measure of his/her high school education.
IB exams are comprehensive, and cover a huge amount of material, and this forces students to remember more than what they learned in their senior year. This can make IB students better prepared for college. Students also tend to see more world history, literature from countries other than America, mathematical notation that is universal, etc.
Cons of IB vs. AP
IB's answer to competing with the AP folks is to offer a modular program that is supposed to be equivalent to AP exams. The modular approach offers certificates to students who do not choose to go after the diploma, but who want some IB credit. Unfortunately, I have found that most good universities offer up to twice as much credit for equivalent AP test scores as for individual IB test scores. IB is accepted by good universities as a whole package, but the universities do not seem to like the modular approach to IB. Many schools offer no credit at all for standard level IB exams (unless they are taken as part of the IB diploma), and only a nominal amount of credit for the higher level IB exams. There are some good reasons for this. IB is so broad that certain material that is expected of college freshman is not covered in the IB curriculum. If students are to skip certain courses and go on to more advanced ones, this missing material can be a problem. On the other hand, IB students tend to have had an introduction to more advanced material that AP students do not have, so it may even out in the end.
IB seems to see themselves as competing with AP, and I guess they are in a sense. Unfortunately, this has led to a total lack of flexibility when students have a valid conflict on an IB exam day. If a student has to take an AP exam in history on the same day as the IB exam in math, the IB folks absolutely will not allow make up exams. This lack of flexibility causes many students to have to give up one or the other exam, and that is a huge shame. I feel that these programs should be there for the good of the students, not the institutions.
I teach a combo AP/higher level IB course in math, and I know that other teachers in my school do this in other subjects as well. It is difficult to cover all the material, so I had to choose my IB option carefully, and then I have to fill in a lot of material that AP covers but IB does not (and vice versa). I do manage to do that, and I have so far had a 100% passing rate on both AP and IB exams. I've noticed that all my students have gotten 5's on the AP BC Calculus exam, and yet the highest IB score was a 5/7. When I looked at the sub-scores last year, I found that the students had received the lowest scores in their strongest subject. The fact that this particular topic was a strength was confirmed by the across the board 5's on the AP/BC exam on the same material. I found that our IB exams had gone to a country that hates the U.S., and I couldn't help but feel that this had a negative influence on the grading of my students. Therefore, I think the grading process of IB could be improved by choosing randomly, but with some restraint when two countries are huge adversaries.
The IB curriculum is somewhat different from the AP curriculum in its philosophy. Because it is international, there is much less focus on subjects like U.S. history, and more focus on world history. The "options" available in the higher level IB courses give the teachers a choice on their focus, but there is still a broad based curriculum that must be followed. In most subjects, this means that students are given a broad outline of the entire topic, and don't go into a lot of depth on many of the subtopics. For example, AP math concentrates mostly on calculus, which is the required curriculum for the first 2-3 quarters (2 semesters) in most U.S. universities. IB specifically omits certain AP topics, and instead gives students an introduction to many different upper division topics in math (probability theory, complex analysis, etc.). The same approach holds in other subjects such as English and history. This approach can be difficult for some students, since there is often no feel of a logical progression throughout the year, and there is not a lot of depth in any of these topics except for the "option" chosen by the instructor. However, this approach also gives student a broader base in their view of various subjects, and gets away from the "American only" view of the world.
Finally, the IB curriculum can somewhat limit student's choices. For example, my daughter wanted to take French, and she also wanted an IB diploma. At the time, the only IB language that was offered was Spanish. My daughter had to give up the IB diploma, because it was more important to her to take French (my husband was raised in Paris). She was able to take AP French, but not IB French at her high school. The IB program is difficult to teach, and takes special training that the AP program does not require, at least not so much.
I hope this gives you some idea of the pros and cons of the two programs, though I'm certain I missed some stuff. As far as the university preparation goes, my experience as a university faculty member has shown me that both IB and AP students are about equally prepared.
[/FONT]
Sources: my experience as a high school and university teacher.
