印度，中国移民，仅仅相当于加拿大的高中水平
- 主题发起人 cgi
- 开始时间
如果楼上各位朋友及这位朋友所说的均是事实的话，我想我们仅仅在这里讨论、表达气愤的情绪恐怕对解决问题没有多少实质性的帮助。 不是我小看这位主持人先生，我想他多半是不懂中文的。当然，他应该多半也是不懂印度语的。
不知各位朋友认为以下设想实现的可能性有多大？华裔社团（或代表）是否可以联合印度裔社团（或代表）通过公开、正式的渠道向这位主持人先生发出“邀请”，请他为全体加拿大公民及永久居民（至少为印度裔及华裔移民）做一个 “Presentation”，论述、证明一下他的观点（结论）。
他不是会写书嘛。那这位主持人先生应该算得上是位文化人了。既然是有文化的人，论证一个他自己提出的、也不算太复杂的社会科学范畴的命题应该不是什么很困难的事情吧？
如果我们这次不请他论证一下自己的“发现”，或许以后他仍然会认为自己可以象上帝一样只需给出结论（结果）而让感兴趣的人自己去探索、研究和证明。
当今中国道德沦丧，物欲横流，可能都源于您的这种观点。
其实当年小布什在北大的讲演有一句话我很赞同：现代化的高楼大厦容易建设，在短时间内用钱堆积就可以做到，但这些钱却无法提高一个民族的底蕴。
trope and czh, you are right!
ZT
发达国家的好日子是不可持续的 - 深山 (ZT), 在加拿大, 最先出局的是大多数移民.
http://club.6park.com/bolun/messages/78668.html
ZT 温故而知新[原创]
当前的危机有多严重？
很严重。
这从世界各国的经济数据就能看出来。
到底还能严重到什么程度？
没有人相信自己今天睡下，明天早晨会起不来，
因此世界还怀抱着信心，只是这个信心，只有温总在呼喊。
原因是只有中国有些许条件喊而已。
这场危机很可能会导致第三次世界大战（当然是核大战），世界的政治经济秩序将重新
洗牌推倒重来，能否重来还要看届时人类究竟保留有多少理智。
世界究竟为什么走到了这一步？
是因为人类忘记了马克思的资本论，即使是中国这个所谓的马克思主义指导的唯一国度
也忘记了。
这场危机的形成依旧是传统的资本主义游戏，和老牌资本主义国家国民的傲慢与偏见。
资本的本质是追逐利润。
这是这种追逐把中国等新兴资本主义市场经济国家推上世界工厂的位置。
资本剥削中国劳工的血汗，所谓的全球化是优化资源配置，是寻找剩余价值的高地，中
国作为一个理想的国家，没有所谓民主人权的工会作梗，起点又低，因为起点低所以国
民勤劳忍耐再加上聪明。这些都是资本梦寐以求的剩余价值产生机器。
新兴市场经济国家的高速发展归根结底是资本的推动，而中国只是做了正确的事并顺应
了大势这么简单。
其实也不简单，发展过程中骂声不断诟病多多，只是中国所幸还是个专制的社会，稳住
大局来者不拒全盘接受。
那么它所造成的后果是什么？
那就是那些所谓的夕阳工业低附加值产品，让中国制造占了世界的大半。
何谓夕阳工业何谓低附加值产品，实际上是人类生产生活的必需品。
中国的这种能量从哪里来？那就是中国有十三亿劳动价值起点极低的劳动者，他的数量
抵得上半个世界。
更为离谱的是，资本的贪婪推动了整个发达世界把那些最新的产品生产也迅速的推向了
中国，使中国制造在近些年几乎与世界最新的最先进的生产同步。貌似中国人在为全世
界打工，即使这样中国的胃口依然很大，依然吃不饱，因为分配给中国劳动者的利润实
在是微薄的可怜。
与此同时，发达国家在做什么？
资本是他们的，他们在用资本游戏所赢得的超额利润坐享其成，貌似这是个不错的交易
，然而在2008年这一局面完成了一个从量变到质变的过程。
2008年中国人很悲情，中国人发现全世界都似乎在和中国人过不去！
其实从反面讲，这反映了那些所谓的发达的民主人权的国家的更大的悲情，因为他们越
来越发现不对劲儿，他们发现她们潇洒的吃穿用度无时不刻的和那个庞大的，在他们的
意识里依然是落后的野蛮的让人瞧不起的令人恐怖的拥有十三亿人口的民族越来越深的
联系在了一起，这会有什么后果？他们不知道，但他们知道他们必须要做些什么，要肢
解中国，于是就出现了2008年的一幕幕。
为什么只得到蝇头小利的中国相对的成了赢家，而那些资本大鳄狂吞中国劳工或者全世
界劳工超额剩余价值的发达国家却成了输家呢？
还是马克思的资本主义原理所阐述的，资本的贪婪属性所造成的。
他们为了追逐利润，促成了新兴国家劳工的进化和新兴国家的资本原始积累。中国如果
没有对外全面开放取得今天的成就是不可想象的也是不可能的。融入世界使得中国大大
缩短了与发达国家的差距。
然而这种差距的缩短并没有在实际回报上获得体现，当然中国和发达国家还是有差距的
，但今天的这种差距如果是一倍，那么30年前就是30倍50倍。
而30年前中国人的收入是符合这种差距的，而今天他们的收入依然是中国人的10倍20倍
，劳动者素质科技水平的差距已经大大缩小了而收入的差距却没有相应的变化，原因就
是资本吞噬了中国人应得那一部分，而补贴了发达国家国民滋润的透支了的高收入。如
果世界是一个国家，这种不合理的分配是不可想象的，但这只是个全球化的世界，中国
只能痛苦并幸福的庆幸中国有幸得到这些血淋淋的订单。
中国人艳羡的发达国家的高福利高收入正是产生于这种畸形的世界经济秩序，这造成了
发达国家一名普通国民同样的劳动同样的智慧同样的素质的国民能够换取一个中国国民
几十倍的利益，显然这是不符合经济学原理的，是不可持续的现象。而发达国家主导的
全球化资本市场游戏正是在维持着这一不可持续的分配的推手。如果这种资本游戏不崩
盘，他们将继续自己傲慢的滋润的幸福生活。
问题是现在他崩盘了。
而且他们又都是民主的人权的国家，这个问题就严重了。
他们的国民要求这种持续的幸福，他们无法理解这种幸福是无法永远维持的。因为他们
也是蝇头小利的获得者，资本从全球化获得的超额利润只归于少数人，而把问题留给了
他们本已捉襟见肘的财政。
发达国家的国民此时在不降低自己收入要求的前提下拿什么和那些比他们的收入低10倍
20倍却同样水平的新兴国家的国民去竞争？
而且他们的基础物质生产已经转移了，而他们的高利润的高技术的高价的生产却面临着
一个大大缩水了的消费市场，这就是现在发达国家工业生产所面临的局面，10%20%的下
降，大规模的裁员。
因为他们是民主国家，裁员所造成的大规模失业，社会不可避免的失去理性，导致的必
然是政治危机接着是贸易保护接着就是二战前经历的经济大萧条。
这也是全世界面对危机的主要课题，还保留着理性的经济政治精英竭力避免这种局面的
出现。
然而时势比人强，今天的全球化与80年前不可同日而语，如果出现了对中国的贸易战，
中国固然损失惨重，而他们却要伤筋动骨，因为在几十年的全球化分工中，中国已经完
成了作为世界上最廉价的最庞大的基础生活必需品的生产基地地位的转变，如果他们真
断了和中国的贸易导致的将是基础生活必需品的价格暴涨，这是任何国家都无法承受的。
负责任的政治家当然都明白这一点，但是政治投机者让选民看到的只是卑贱的野蛮的没
有人权的没有民主的中国人在抢他们的饭碗。
这就是民主政治的悲哀，疯狂的政策注定是无法避免的。
现在已经出现了端倪，美国经济还没有见底，问题还没有充分暴露，那个被赋予救世主
使命的民主的弄潮儿已经开始取悦选民搞起了贸易保护————所谓的只买美国货条款
。今天这个法案未必能够通过，因为经济危机的程度还没有使美国的选民足够的疯狂。
而且今天美国人面对的是一个瘸腿的黑人总统，在这个最需要领袖英明判断力把握底线
的时刻，他注定是没有权威的一味推卸责任把问题强加于中国的政府，届时美国人将忘
记中国和美国是互补的经济，在经济上并不是美国的主要竞争对手。
贸易保护有多么严重的后果？
现在都说这是个全球化的时代，全球化意味着资源的最优化配置，包括分给中国的世界
工厂地位。
贸易保护意味着切断全球化，意味着发达国家必须重建已经转移的生活必需品制造工厂
，意味着前所未有的恶性通货膨胀。
发达国家能够承受吗？
能，虽然很痛苦，他们不能承受就不叫发达国家了。
中国能承受吗？
疑问，只要中共足够坚强，只要中国人有足够的忍耐。
但是世界上大多数国家，那些被民主政治搞得晕头转向的发展中国家是无力承受的。
民主不能当饭吃，没饭吃民主顶个球。
政局混乱，失业饥荒导致的冲突争端不断，最终导致世界强权为了各自的利益大打出手
争夺势力范围。
只是这次世界上多了一个强权---中国，如果中国政府中国人足够的聪明，中国人可以
放心吗？也许，因为2008年的中国军费增长为18%———世界第一。
当然，欧美发达国家为了自己今天的既得利益，必须避免这种局面发生，温总风风光光
地走欧洲不是没有原因的，世界上没有无缘无故的爱也没有无缘无故的恨，走着瞧了。
这个老头很有意思，我曾经有一段时间天天听他节目。
他那个节目有点像咱们的焦点访谈， 很尖锐，但不媚俗。 俺听他骂了十几年的各级政府了，据说他从6，70年代就开始骂，现在都该退休了，俺个人很喜欢他的节目。
人无完人，老头也有他愚蠢的一面。
我记得有一年讨论global warming, 好像是省自由党号召每人减少x消耗20%， 老头破口大骂， “我减20，老婆减20， 我们家要减40。 一家有四口人，要减80%， 这日子怎么过？” 老头数学不好，面对群众call-in质疑，30-40分钟没听懂， 最后宣布： 我是大傻子，请停止call-in纠正这个问题。
因无知而露怯， 一笑了之。
俺个人的感觉，当西方人表面上对你客客气气，本质上他是把你当成弱者。 当他们开始攻击你时，是因为意识到你已成为他们的对手。
Ottawa 白人骗子狂骗Toronto中国移民
ZT
http://web.wenxuecity.com/BBSView.ph...e&MsgID=268662
http://web.wenxuecity.com/BBSView.php?SubID=backhome&MsgID=268662
千万不要移民加拿大
来源: zhang3feng
I resided in Toronto, and I once interviewed for a position in Ottawa.
One of the skills they required in the job ads was SAS. Since I had several
years of experience with SAS, I was hoping to get this position.
This company called me and asked me to go there for a face-to-face
interview. There was no phone screening. This should have raised some flag for me.
But I was in a very desperate situation at the time, and would be happy to grasp any straw coming my way.
They did not provide any help to my trip to Ottawa.
I had to get up early and drive for 5 hours to get there, which
was probably what they wanted me to do anyway, since the
interview was scheduled at 1pm, right after the lunch time.
These Canadians really knew how to save a buck or two.
I got to Ottawa at about 12am. I had my lunch in a Chinese restaurant, and went to the
rest room to brush my teeth before leaving the restaurant. Putting on my interview suit, I went
to that company. It was a very small company. The front desk lady was very cold to me. Good start.
There were three white guys in the interview room when I walked in. One guy with a huge
beer belly handed me a glass of water. I thanked him.
Just a few minutes into the interview, this beer belly guy casually mentioned that they didn't have SAS.
"SAS is too expensive," he remarked, "we cannot afford that. Is that software a must for you?"
This guy asked me if I must have SAS. For the sake of getting
a shot at the job, I said no. He smiled and said that was the right
answer. What a cheap ass!!!!! Why do you put SAS in the job ads when you
do not even have it? It is just about 10k dollars a year to get
SAS license and you cannot afford that?
Now the second white guy started grilling me, and his technique was to repeatedly calling my honesty into question.
"Tell me about the softwares you use."
I said I have plenty of experience with SAS and oracle. He looked at me in a tough
way and said you had SPSS in your resume. As if it is
really something to be able to use SPSS, which is just a spreadsheet. What a dickhead.
This guy kept poking me with this way of questioning, with a stony hostility on his face.
The third guy, who was very young, was showing a weird jeer on his face.
I would love to give both of them a slap on the face. If you want me to recite everything in the resume, just
f---ing read it.
In about half an hour, the interview was over. And the third guy, who was clearly
a subordinate of the second guy, and who had clearly caught all the overtones of those questions, said, "we will be in touch." His expression
was--forget about it. After I left the company I stopped at a gas station to get a pack of cigarettes.
I felt extremely angry, but did not know what to do.
Now I had to drive another five hours to go home.
This is a big lesson I learned. Avoid white trash. In the interviews I had since had in the states, I had totally different experience. These American companies pay everything for the interview. They pay for flight, hotel, and limos. And the interviewers treat you professionally, with respect.
Now if you come to think about it, Canada is really a country of losers.
Look at Finland, look at northern Europe. They have long and gloomy winters,
just like Canada. And how technologically advanced they are!
Canadians, on the other hand, occupying a huge land, are very good at selling trees, selling fish, killing seals and selling furs. So many immigrants with advanced degree come to
Canada, only to take on some hourly muscle job, because Canada does not have a big technology sector in the job market to utilize their brain. I think Canada should stop taking in highly educated immigrants, and go get some cheap labors from Mexico, since that's what this strongest, freest, and richest country on Earth really need.
ZT
http://web.wenxuecity.com/BBSView.ph...e&MsgID=268662
http://web.wenxuecity.com/BBSView.php?SubID=backhome&MsgID=268662
千万不要移民加拿大
来源: zhang3feng
I resided in Toronto, and I once interviewed for a position in Ottawa.
One of the skills they required in the job ads was SAS. Since I had several
years of experience with SAS, I was hoping to get this position.
This company called me and asked me to go there for a face-to-face
interview. There was no phone screening. This should have raised some flag for me.
But I was in a very desperate situation at the time, and would be happy to grasp any straw coming my way.
They did not provide any help to my trip to Ottawa.
I had to get up early and drive for 5 hours to get there, which
was probably what they wanted me to do anyway, since the
interview was scheduled at 1pm, right after the lunch time.
These Canadians really knew how to save a buck or two.
I got to Ottawa at about 12am. I had my lunch in a Chinese restaurant, and went to the
rest room to brush my teeth before leaving the restaurant. Putting on my interview suit, I went
to that company. It was a very small company. The front desk lady was very cold to me. Good start.
There were three white guys in the interview room when I walked in. One guy with a huge
beer belly handed me a glass of water. I thanked him.
Just a few minutes into the interview, this beer belly guy casually mentioned that they didn't have SAS.
"SAS is too expensive," he remarked, "we cannot afford that. Is that software a must for you?"
This guy asked me if I must have SAS. For the sake of getting
a shot at the job, I said no. He smiled and said that was the right
answer. What a cheap ass!!!!! Why do you put SAS in the job ads when you
do not even have it? It is just about 10k dollars a year to get
SAS license and you cannot afford that?
Now the second white guy started grilling me, and his technique was to repeatedly calling my honesty into question.
"Tell me about the softwares you use."
I said I have plenty of experience with SAS and oracle. He looked at me in a tough
way and said you had SPSS in your resume. As if it is
really something to be able to use SPSS, which is just a spreadsheet. What a dickhead.
This guy kept poking me with this way of questioning, with a stony hostility on his face.
The third guy, who was very young, was showing a weird jeer on his face.
I would love to give both of them a slap on the face. If you want me to recite everything in the resume, just
f---ing read it.
In about half an hour, the interview was over. And the third guy, who was clearly
a subordinate of the second guy, and who had clearly caught all the overtones of those questions, said, "we will be in touch." His expression
was--forget about it. After I left the company I stopped at a gas station to get a pack of cigarettes.
I felt extremely angry, but did not know what to do.
Now I had to drive another five hours to go home.
This is a big lesson I learned. Avoid white trash. In the interviews I had since had in the states, I had totally different experience. These American companies pay everything for the interview. They pay for flight, hotel, and limos. And the interviewers treat you professionally, with respect.
Now if you come to think about it, Canada is really a country of losers.
Look at Finland, look at northern Europe. They have long and gloomy winters,
just like Canada. And how technologically advanced they are!
Canadians, on the other hand, occupying a huge land, are very good at selling trees, selling fish, killing seals and selling furs. So many immigrants with advanced degree come to
Canada, only to take on some hourly muscle job, because Canada does not have a big technology sector in the job market to utilize their brain. I think Canada should stop taking in highly educated immigrants, and go get some cheap labors from Mexico, since that's what this strongest, freest, and richest country on Earth really need.
