关于mutual fund基金的费用问题,是投资人在付钱么?

猫眼晶

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well.....ok where should i start. 在这里我可以作个简单的回答。“不是”有耐心,和有兴趣的朋友可以看看下面的冗繁文字。如果有更多细节的问题可以给我qqh或者发邮件。我乐意帮你们询问和解答相关的问题。jiecy@hotmail.com

a financial planner's "commission" comes from these 3 major sources, please notice this, they are not from investors.


1. loads or commissions, (paid by investors when they buy and sell 1utual funds. this one is recognized as processing fee. i dont know in other place. but in Investors Group there is only no-load funds)
2. MER
3. trailer fees, fees paid to mutual fund dealers.

in all these three types income for a financial planner, 2 and 3 paid by mutual fund management company and dealer. 1, it really depends on the fund and institution.


1. people think financial planners (FPs) want commission. that suppose to be reward to their work of help managing investors assets anyways, no one wants work for nothing. i am not blaming them. but as i mentioned obove, i dont know other place, but in Investors Group, they only have no-load funds and DSC (deferred sales charge).what are they? you can google or whatever to make sure if my explaination is true.

A) no-loads fund means charge no commission or service fees.a mutual fund is considered to be a no-load fund if an investor does not have to pay any fee or charge to buy or redeem securities of the fund.
under no-load funds, you only get charged when
- optional fees or charges for specific service
- redemption fees for funds that are not money market funds of redemption occurs within 90 days after purchasing the fund
- an account set-up or closing fee to coverthe initial administrative costs of opening or closing the account

B) DSC, it gives u fixed term, after it mutual, it s no fees to redeem. but if you wanna redeem earlier, for each year, there will be differen % of charge. the more years the fund has been held, the less% to be charged. if the fund was for 7 years for example, there would be no fees was charged at all after 7 years; investors only got charged if they redem before this time period. but usually most fund companies allow investers to redeem 10% of the value of the holding per year without charges.
A good FP won't suggess u to do this if s/he knows this client not sure if s/he can hold these money for that long.


2. MER, management fees,this one is paid by the fund, not investor. however, investors should concerned about MER because they reduce the rate of return for a fund. 也就是说打个比方,基金投资的钱是给fund company去做投资的。MER是2%,也就是说比如fund company投资的收益是10%,那么剩余8%是投资人的回报。这些从来就不属于投资人。所以不是投资人在付MER 给他们的FP。 也就是说这2%他们用来公司运转,和支付那些帮你创回报的人。相比MER投资人的回报往往要高很多。但是要提醒投资人的是,选fund的时候MER的多少还是要作为一个参考因素。尤其是长期投资。这些因素作为一个好的financial planner是一定会帮客户考虑进去的。像IG, EJ这样的公司只算是distributor。他们不是fund company, 不能决定和支配MER. 也就是说MER不是直接给这些公司或者这些公司的人的。fund companies use MER to pay for management, interest charges and taxes, audit fees, legal fees, accounting fees fees to maintain investor records.although commissions or brokerage fees and other portfolio transaction costs are shown as an expense in the statement of operations, they are excluded from the calculation of the MER。


3. the last, trailer fees, this is nothing to do with investors either. trailer fees are designed as an incentive to representatives and mutual fund dealers to continue servicing fund clients after sales have been made. they are paid by the management company to its distributors and are in addition to sales commissions. the deler can receive a trailer fee for as long as the investor holds the units of the fund. the trailer fee is paid by the manager out of the management feesand it is expressed as a percentage of the dealer's assets under administration. for example, the market value of the units of the fund sold through the deler and not redeemed. this is included indirectly in the MER.


如果大家有问题欢迎跟贴,我会想办法帮你们找找答案的。:)
 
Comment on #2: MER是2%,也就是说比如fund company投资的收益是10%,那么剩余8%是投资人的回报。这些从来就不属于投资人。
I don't like this strong statement at all "这些从来就不属于投资人". This is our money and we entited to every penny the return. What if the fund lost money, do they that MER as 0%, nope, they don't, they still take a certain percentage from the investor. This is a typical win-win situation for fund company.

But again, I respect some of the fund manager for their hard working and management skills. anything hgher then 3% MER needs to be consider heavily
 
MER应该是总投入的百分比吧

要只是增长部分的百分比,过去两年大多数的基金都的吃西北风--都在赔钱啊。
如果只是投加拿大的大公司,还是选ETF为好,基金在这方面没什么费用上的优势。
 
wiki的定义:
The expense ratio of a stock or asset fund is the total percentage of fund assets used for administrative, management, advertising (12b-1), and all other expenses. An expense ratio of 1% per annum means that each year 1% of the fund's total assets will be used to cover expenses. The expense ratio does not include sales loads or brokerage commissions.
注意,是total asset的比例,不是仅仅增长部分的比例
 
买mf的人在48小时之内一定都有收到小册子。上面有你所购买基金的详细资料。包括MER的%. 这个fund和fund 之间是不一样的.但凡我知道的400多fund里. MER从1%左右-3%左右不等.平均在2.13%. MER是给帮你做投资组合的人及公司的运营管理费用。有人帮你管理资金并且拿到比银行存款利率高的回报。相比之下MER1-3%真的不多。
从MER的计算方法可能可以更清楚地理解MER (management expenses ratio)
MER=total annual fund expenses per statement of operations/average net asset value for the year %
 
要只是增长部分的百分比,过去两年大多数的基金都的吃西北风--都在赔钱啊。
如果只是投加拿大的大公司,还是选ETF为好,基金在这方面没什么费用上的优势。


ETF is a little different. first, it is open end investment fund, units are traded on an exchange. the price is determined by demand and supply conditions and varies continuously during the day. it can only be bought or redeemed at the end of the day.

most ETFs are designed to track a specific stock index or subindex. historically, the management fee, or trustee fee, has been substantially lowar than for mutual funds. newer ETFs in canada also involve leverage and active management. depending on the etf, it may also pay dividends. they are also eligible for registered accounts like RRSPs. ETFs attempt to replicate an index as close as they can.
 
ETF is a little different. first, it is open end investment fund, units are traded on an exchange. the price is determined by demand and supply conditions and varies continuously during the day. it can only be bought or redeemed at the end of the day.

most ETFs are designed to track a specific stock index or subindex. historically, the management fee, or trustee fee, has been substantially lowar than for mutual funds. newer ETFs in canada also involve leverage and active management. depending on the etf, it may also pay dividends. they are also eligible for registered accounts like RRSPs. ETFs attempt to replicate an index as close as they can.

所以我只说,对一般人来说,加拿大大公司的部分用etf为好,因为加拿大翻来覆去就是这么几家大公司,大的基金的几个大的holding也就是这几个。至于其他的部分用不用,就得看个人的需求了。有极端的全用etf的,不过一般人可能不是太合适。
至于你说2-3%fee不贵,你最好看看美国那边的费再说,平均比这边低1%。前两年有个研究,加拿大的费是所有发达国家中最高的。这也是把很多人逼到etf的原因
 
所以我只说,对一般人来说,加拿大大公司的部分用etf为好,因为加拿大翻来覆去就是这么几家大公司,大的基金的几个大的holding也就是这几个。至于其他的部分用不用,就得看个人的需求了。有极端的全用etf的,不过一般人可能不是太合适。
至于你说2-3%fee不贵,你最好看看美国那边的费再说,平均比这边低1%。前两年有个研究,加拿大的费是所有发达国家中最高的。这也是把很多人逼到etf的原因

您说得对。mutual fund 和 ETF 各有优缺点了。
MF 当然选择比较多。虽然平均MER相对偏高,但是fund的风险度包括低中高和回报率的区间也更广。所以在做投资组合的时候根据投资人的舒适度可以选择不同比例的fund来分散风险。这也就是为什么MF的MER会相对较高。
ETF 主要就是index fund了。either stock index or bond index. 那么风险只有中到高。对于保守型投资人来说就不太适合了。需要慎重考虑。
 
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