加中两国今天在联合国就孟，两个麦克事件激烈交锋

[肥猫]

人质们都回家吃饭了，你们还不回家吃饭？吵个什么劲儿。反正结果是为了要回俩麦克，加拿大美国完美配合了人质交换。我们大家都知道中国司法不独立，没想到美加司法也不独立

 

[春夏之交]

也就是说，加拿大外长并没有说“中国必须尊重”。这只是你的解读。

此外，你前面说加拿大外长“把自己国内法 ...... 说成国际法，真不要脸"。我也没有找到他把加拿大国内法说成国际法的出处。你能否也给出你这个说法的出处？

不能。
你自己找。

 

[何 不]

这不是废话么，你要是没犯罪被定罪了，还能说法律公正？
公正不公正不是看怎么说，而是没罪判没罪，有罪判有罪才叫公正。你可以不喜欢孟晚舟，也可以不喜欢加拿大法律，但是你认为谁有没有罪，然并卵，得法院判。

孟晚舟被放走，到底是因为她无罪，还是因为要用她就换两个麦克？法院怎么判的？

 

[这都不是事儿]

孟晚舟被放走，到底是因为她无罪，还是因为要用她就换两个麦克？法院怎么判的？

这两个问题太难了。

 

[贾和平]

Every country knows '"retaliation" is a normal tactic in international disputes. It happened so many times even among "five eyes" allies. Justin Trudeau should have had the common sense of the consequence of what China would respond to when JRW reported to him that the US requested the extradition of Meng. If Justin Trudeau had a bit of brain of foreign affairs, he would have had looked into it to respond accordingly. However, he simplistically instructed JWR to follow the bilateral treaty ( Note: a bilateral treaty is an international treaty but no-bonding to any other country). Don't blame JWR backstabbing. She knew Trudeau would kick her out of DOJ. She had a conversation about the " Saturday Night Massacre" before with Gerry Butts, the Principal Secretary of Trudeau, about SNC Lavalin's criminal prosecution.

JWR knew China would retaliate against Canada if Meng was arrested. DOJ had handled a precedent similar extradition case before ( one Chinese citizen extradited to The US, two Canadians were arrested in China). She simply followed Trudeau the instruction to issue the warrant. "Oh-oh, I reported it to my boss or it was the boss's decision."

Trudeau later suggested JWR a position of Aboriginal Affairs and JWR declined and said it has no common sense to let Abo run Aboriginal Affairs.

During the ethical issue of Justin Trudeau on SNC Lavalin criminal prosecution, Gerry Butts resigned and openly admitted: "I learned a lot from her."

BTW, here is the latest retaliation threat:
Russia threatened to block YouTube after Russian state-backed broadcaster RT's German-language channels were deleted a day earlier and said it was weighing possible retaliation against the German media. YouTube said on Tuesday that RT's channels had breached its COVID misinformation policy, a move Russia's Foreign Ministry described as "unprecedented information aggression" in a statement late on Wednesday. The ministry said Russian authorities had been approached with "a proposal to develop and take retaliatory measures against the YouTube hosting service and the German media."

 

[billwanhua]

China, Canada and the U.S. all insist there was ‘no deal’ to bring the two Michaels home

It was a “highly choreographed” affair, the parallel returns of Meng Wanzhou to China and the long-awaited homecoming of the two Michaels — Michael Kovrig and Michael Spavor — to Canada.

www.thestar.com

But Canada, the United States and China all deny there was any deal or negotiation to liberate the two Canadian detainees in return for the release of Huawei’s chief financial officer.

And on Monday, governments in the East and West told very different stories of how and why it all came about.

The U.S. and Canada insisted that the decision to release the two men was reached by the Chinese authorities in the face of unrelenting pressure by Canadian, American and international allies, including U.S. President Joe Biden, who opposed China’s “arbitrary detention” of them.

In the Chinese version, the two Canadian detainees sought bail “for medical reasons.”

可能最终这件事，美国加拿大中国都是在做人质交易，但是都不愿承认，因为如果承认，所有国家都等于承认了自己违反了法律做人质交易。
但是这个给加拿大留了一个不好的尾巴，就是中国坚持加拿大两个麦克取保候审，而且上面报道加拿大也没有否认：


She declined to comment on China’s claim that the Canadians were released for health reasons. “China made a decision, right? China decided to detain them, China decided to let them go,” she said.

“Their motivations are their motivations, and I think people are drawing conclusions from the facts here.”

 

[gocanoeing]

我原来认为加拿大华人群体大概会有最高的平均智商。来了CFC才知道还有没有这么多如此弱智的人。
正常人首先应该承认对等原则，这应该就是所谓的普世价值的核心。
要想掰扯加拿大有没有权利抓孟晚舟，先学习学习法律的管辖权。学习学习什么是长臂管辖。谁有长臂管辖权？长臂管辖和世界上绝大多数国家现行的法律制度的冲突，长臂管辖的正当性或者说长臂管辖权的获得？
加拿大的引渡法最重要的一条是引渡罪名按加拿大法律也是成立的。其次是引渡国是否有管辖权。中国公民，在香港欺骗了（姑且承认）英国银行，跟美国，加拿大有毛关系？
美加之间的引渡条约只应该适用于双方拥有管辖权的案件。加拿大抓人首先是承认了美国的长臂管辖权。实质上是“我老大说你犯罪了让我抓你”。中国会或者应该承认美国的长臂管辖权吗？中国应该也有同样的长臂管辖权吗？
法条上（可能被指控的罪名最后不成立）中国抓铺两个迈克更有正当性（起码从管辖权上）。

加拿大按自己的引渡法在自己的领土上抓孟女士，完全符合国际法

至于是不是长臂管辖，是不是在加拿大也算犯罪等等，所以在加拿大法院争论了两年半的啊，说明加拿大司法很严谨，不是像中国政法委一个通知就可以改变法院决定的

 

[茶马盐铁]

孟晚舟被放走，到底是因为她无罪，还是因为要用她就换两个麦克？法院怎么判的？

孟晚舟被放走，是因为美国暂缓起诉， 通知加拿大不再寻求引渡， 既然如此， 加拿大自然就放人了。
她跟美国之间是什么协议，是她跟美国之间的事情， 加拿大这边非常简单， 本来就是因为司法协议而抓人，进行引渡程序， 现在程序没走完， 美国方面不寻求引渡了， 那就放人呗， 法院需要判啥？

 

[者行孙]

孟晚舟被放走，是因为美国暂缓起诉， 通知加拿大不再寻求引渡， 既然如此， 加拿大自然就放人了。
她跟美国之间是什么协议，是她跟美国之间的事情， 加拿大这边非常简单， 本来就是因为司法协议而抓人，进行引渡程序， 现在程序没走完， 美国方面不寻求引渡了， 那就放人呗， 法院需要判啥？

解释得很有耐心

 

[光放]

加拿大按自己的引渡法在自己的领土上抓孟女士，完全符合国际法

至于是不是长臂管辖，是不是在加拿大也算犯罪等等，所以在加拿大法院争论了两年半的啊，说明加拿大司法很严谨，不是像中国政法委一个通知就可以改变法院决定的

按你的说法，中国按中国的法律在自己的领土上抓间谍和任何国际法有冲突吗？

按你的说法，任何国家都可以按自己的法律抓任何人？比如塔利班在阿富汗以违反穆斯林法律（比如吃猪肉）抓美国人？

管辖权是法律法规里最重要的部分，别说国家之间，就是国家内部也有管辖权限制，两个安省人，发生在安省的纠纷，绝对不可以去魁省打官司。

 

[光放]

China, Canada and the U.S. all insist there was ‘no deal’ to bring the two Michaels home

It was a “highly choreographed” affair, the parallel returns of Meng Wanzhou to China and the long-awaited homecoming of the two Michaels — Michael Kovrig and Michael Spavor — to Canada.

www.thestar.com

But Canada, the United States and China all deny there was any deal or negotiation to liberate the two Canadian detainees in return for the release of Huawei’s chief financial officer.

And on Monday, governments in the East and West told very different stories of how and why it all came about.

The U.S. and Canada insisted that the decision to release the two men was reached by the Chinese authorities in the face of unrelenting pressure by Canadian, American and international allies, including U.S. President Joe Biden, who opposed China’s “arbitrary detention” of them.

In the Chinese version, the two Canadian detainees sought bail “for medical reasons.”

可能最终这件事，美国加拿大中国都是在做人质交易，但是都不愿承认，因为如果承认，所有国家都等于承认了自己违反了法律做人质交易。
但是这个给加拿大留了一个不好的尾巴，就是中国坚持加拿大两个麦克取保候审，而且上面报道加拿大也没有否认：


She declined to comment on China’s claim that the Canadians were released for health reasons. “China made a decision, right? China decided to detain them, China decided to let them go,” she said.

“Their motivations are their motivations, and I think people are drawing conclusions from the facts here.”

两个迈克签字认罪，加拿大大使馆担保。要讲程序正义，中国完备的多。

 

[gocanoeing]

按你的说法，中国按中国的法律在自己的领土上抓间谍和任何国际法有冲突吗？

按你的说法，任何国家都可以按自己的法律抓任何人？比如塔利班在阿富汗以违反穆斯林法律（比如吃猪肉）抓美国人？

管辖权是法律法规里最重要的部分，别说国家之间，就是国家内部也有管辖权限制，两个安省人，发生在安省的纠纷，绝对不可以去魁省打官司。

中国也可以争论自己的做法符合国际法啊

任何国家都可以根据自己的法律在自己的领土上抓除了有外交额免权外的任何人，比如加拿大的法律对加拿大领土上的中国公民是有管辖权

 

[2005]

中国参与了美国和加拿大之间的引渡法了吗？

参与了美国对伊朗的制裁协议，偷偷摸摸不遵守。

 

[这都不是事儿]

中国也可以争论自己的做法符合国际法啊

任何国家都可以根据自己的法律在自己的领土上抓除了有外交额免权外的任何人，比如加拿大的法律对加拿大领土上的中国公民是有管辖权

别嘴硬了。加拿大不放孟晚舟，两个麦克不可能回来。

 

[春夏之交]

别嘴硬了。加拿大不放孟晚舟，两个麦克不可能回来。

胡扯。美国和加拿大都不承认交换人质。
双方放人时间上一致，完全是巧合。中国不得不放两个麦克是因为国际社会施加压力，以及加拿大外交人员不懈努力的结果，跟孟晚舟放不放没有半毛钱关系。交换人质？独立的加拿大司法，丢不起那人。