印度第二波如此惨烈,是不是ADE?

贵圈

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哈哈 感染后抗体就是这样。特意中和抗体滴度不高,不能完全杀毒,有很多非特异抗体。这样,感染康复患者再次接触变异病毒后

ADE是有可能的,而且,特意抗体越弱,就越可能出现ADE。


那么如果活病毒都无法激发足够的特异抗体。

减活疫苗,肯定也不行。

所以美国放弃了他们开发的减活疫苗。



那么灭火疫苗产生的特异中和抗体就更弱了。而且生成了很多非特异,没有用处的抗体。产生ADE的可能性就更大了。


灭活疫苗ADE可能性>减活疫苗>康复病患.
 
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billwanhua

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哈哈 感染后抗体就是这样。特意中和抗体滴度不高,不能完全杀毒,有很多非特异抗体。这样,感染康复患者再次接触变异病毒后

ADE是有可能的,而且,特意抗体越弱,就越可能出现ADE。


那么如果活病毒都无法激发足够的特异抗体。

减活疫苗,肯定也不行。

所以美国放弃了他们开发的减活疫苗。



那么灭火疫苗产生的特异中和抗体就更弱了。而且生成了很多非特异,没有用处的抗体。产生ADE的可能性就更大了。


灭活疫苗ADE可能性>减活疫苗>康复病患.
你自己发明,特别是关于印度的疫情时ADE,如果证实,应该拿去发表拿诺贝尔,属于对人类巨大贡献。
mRNA在实验以前也被提出有ADE,


ADE is when a disease is made worse or more severe in a person who was already exposed to the virus through a previous infection or vaccination compared to people who were never exposed or vaccinated.


Antibody-dependent enhancement (ADE) has not been identified as a concern related to SARS-CoV-2 infection or following COVID-19 vaccination. Here are reasons indicating why ADE will not be a concern:


  • First, most people have been infected with other coronaviruses in their lifetime, and ADE has not been identified as a result of these infections.
  • Second, in human studies, people previously infected with coronavirus were infected with different types of coronavirus, and they did not experience enhanced disease.
  • Third, experimental animals vaccinated against SARS-CoV-2 did not develop enhanced disease when challenged, or infected, with the virus.
  • Finally, when people with COVID-19 received plasma containing SARS-CoV-2 antibodies, they did not experience enhanced disease.
For these reasons, ADE is not expected to be a concern for SARS-CoV-2 infections or vaccination.
 

billwanhua

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The classic example of Trojan Horse-style ADE comes from dengue. This virus comes in four varieties. They are different enough from each other that past infection with one does not always generate antibodies that match well enough to protect against a different variety.


ADE has also occurred after vaccination for dengue. For example, in 2016 a dengue vaccine was developed to protect against all four serotypes and given to 800,000 children in the Philippines. Among children who were vaccinated and later exposed to wild-type dengue, 14 died, presumably from more severe illness. Since then, the vaccine has been recommended only to children 9 years and older who have already been exposed to dengue.

如果变异发生,跟以前的mRNA刺突不一样,也会发生ADE
 

向问天

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中国的灭活疫苗这中国打了6亿剂,全世界接近10亿剂。实践是检验真理的标准。如果有ADE,早就暴露了,不需要现在还在做各种理论性瞎扯。
 

贵圈

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First, most peopel, bu some others?

Second, they did not ,but can they in the furtuer?

3rd, animal , how about certain people?

fianllty. plasma, that is what happened in the first wave. and not popularly done, because ....
 

贵圈

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我从头到尾课都没说谁有ADE。
讨论的是ADE的可能性。

哈哈,猫们,立刻战狼模式。
 

贵圈

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文中指出,

“所以习近平这次讲话要求他们不光讲话掌握基调,自信谦和兼而有之,更重要的是,要“推进中国故事和中国声音的全球化表达、区域化表达、分众化表达”, “要广交朋友、团结和争取大多数,不断扩大知华友华的国际舆论朋友圈。”

习近平认为这个问题严重,要“主要负责同志既要亲自抓,也要亲自做。”
 

贵圈

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The classic example of Trojan Horse-style ADE comes from dengue. This virus comes in four varieties. They are different enough from each other that past infection with one does not always generate antibodies that match well enough to protect against a different variety.


ADE has also occurred after vaccination for dengue. For example, in 2016 a dengue vaccine was developed to protect against all four serotypes and given to 800,000 children in the Philippines. Among children who were vaccinated and later exposed to wild-type dengue, 14 died, presumably from more severe illness. Since then, the vaccine has been recommended only to children 9 years and older who have already been exposed to dengue.

如果变异发生,跟以前的mRNA刺突不一样,也会发生ADE
这的确有可能,但几率极小。

对比康复患者,对比灭活疫苗的人。
 

贵圈

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中国的灭活疫苗这中国打了6亿剂,全世界接近10亿剂。实践是检验真理的标准。如果有ADE,早就暴露了,不需要现在还在做各种理论性瞎扯。

本楼明明说的是印度的重大医疗问题的可能性,

非要将矛头引向崛起中的祖国。不理解。


我刚学习完,也希望老向也学习一下。共勉吧。以后有任务分我一点。
 

贵圈

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你自己发明,特别是关于印度的疫情时ADE,如果证实,应该拿去发表拿诺贝尔,属于对人类巨大贡献。
mRNA在实验以前也被提出有ADE,


ADE is when a disease is made worse or more severe in a person who was already exposed to the virus through a previous infection or vaccination compared to people who were never exposed or vaccinated.


Antibody-dependent enhancement (ADE) has not been identified as a concern related to SARS-CoV-2 infection or following COVID-19 vaccination. Here are reasons indicating why ADE will not be a concern:


  • First, most people have been infected with other coronaviruses in their lifetime, and ADE has not been identified as a result of these infections.
  • Second, in human studies, people previously infected with coronavirus were infected with different types of coronavirus, and they did not experience enhanced disease.
  • Third, experimental animals vaccinated against SARS-CoV-2 did not develop enhanced disease when challenged, or infected, with the virus.
  • Finally, when people with COVID-19 received plasma containing SARS-CoV-2 antibodies, they did not experience enhanced disease.
For these reasons, ADE is not expected to be a concern for SARS-CoV-2 infections or vaccination.

The classic example of Trojan Horse-style ADE comes from dengue. This virus comes in four varieties. They are different enough from each other that past infection with one does not always generate antibodies that match well enough to protect against a different variety.


ADE has also occurred after vaccination for dengue. For example, in 2016 a dengue vaccine was developed to protect against all four serotypes and given to 800,000 children in the Philippines. Among children who were vaccinated and later exposed to wild-type dengue, 14 died, presumably from more severe illness. Since then, the vaccine has been recommended only to children 9 years and older who have already been exposed to dengue.

如果变异发生,跟以前的mRNA刺突不一样,也会发生ADE
你这两贴,互相矛盾。你知道吧?
以子之矛,破子之盾
 

RareEarth

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以巴西为例。巴西预订的疫苗当中,中国只占1/6 ,过去还传出巴西高官炮轰中国疫苗。但是身体很诚实,现在巴西施打的疫苗中85%来自中国科兴的灭活疫苗。传统疫苗造成大规模 ADE 似乎并不成立。

米国不做灭活疫苗的主要原因在于低端产能不足。 但是米国疫苗对储运冷链的要求太高。很难在发展中国家推广。 中国印度人人员厂房设施的成本都低,低技术路线容易走的通。而且传统疫苗易于储运,中国疫苗质量又好过印度

圈儿想当印度博主无妨。不过印度的情况如同黑洞。外人不那么容易解读。
 

billwanhua

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你这两贴,互相矛盾。你知道吧?
以子之矛,破子之盾
不管矛盾不矛盾,i am not try to prove anything here. i am trying to be objective with different views, but not from my imagination. I am not against anything, and open to prove not to imagination
 

贵圈

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毛不矛盾,

毛!
不管矛盾不矛盾,i am trying to be objective with different views, but not from my imagination. I am not against anything, and open to prove not to imagination
了。
 

贵圈

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以巴西为例。巴西预订的疫苗当中,中国只占1/6 ,过去还传出巴西高官炮轰中国疫苗。但是身体很诚实,现在巴西施打的疫苗中85%来自中国科兴的灭活疫苗。传统疫苗造成大规模 ADE 似乎并不成立。

米国不做灭活疫苗的主要原因在于低端产能不足。 但是米国疫苗对储运冷链的要求太高。很难在发展中国家推广。 中国印度人人员厂房设施的成本都低,低技术路线容易走的通。而且传统疫苗易于储运,中国疫苗质量又好过印度

圈儿想当印度博主无妨。不过印度的情况如同黑洞。外人不那么容易解读。
不想当主子,只是想看看理论的可能性。
印度是养蛊之地,必须关注。

ADE与否,是可能性,一旦发生,就是印度二波。或者更甚,所以,我们看可能性,不看实例。

逻辑上,

尽量不要用可能性比较高的疫苗。
 
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