精华 转篇Ottawa Sun上的文章，外加俺的感想
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oread
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Bilingualism is part of Canadian heritage. The belief that learning a language is for landing a job is too utilitarian. There is so much more in learning a new language.
French is not garbage, and I doubt ANY Francophone would consider their language "garbage". Would you think Chinese is garbage? And if you are going to quote someone, please quote your source, i.e. who said what when and under what context.
French is not garbage, and I doubt ANY Francophone would consider their language "garbage". Would you think Chinese is garbage? And if you are going to quote someone, please quote your source, i.e. who said what when and under what context.
对于不住在灰省的人来说，学法语不是为了工作，难道是为了旅游？你意思好象在加拿大要大家学法语单纯是为兴趣，或者帮助我们有更好的语言思维？别那么单纯好不好？政府在‘强迫’人学呢.
我知不少CANADIAN以前也学过法语，但因为不住在灰省或工作与法语无关，现在都
忘得七七八八了。语言的东西学来不用为什么要学？加拿大的Francophone有象新加
波华人那样成为国家的主体吗？在灰省外有多少Francophone？如果全国公投，有多
少人赞成双语的？
注意‘垃圾’是有引号的，我不是想扁低。如果你问那些Francophone这里的法语跟
真正的法语的区别，他们一定告诉你，对了，不要问一般的Francophone， 你要问
到过法国或研究过真正法语的。
我知不少CANADIAN以前也学过法语，但因为不住在灰省或工作与法语无关，现在都
忘得七七八八了。语言的东西学来不用为什么要学？加拿大的Francophone有象新加
波华人那样成为国家的主体吗？在灰省外有多少Francophone？如果全国公投，有多
少人赞成双语的？
注意‘垃圾’是有引号的，我不是想扁低。如果你问那些Francophone这里的法语跟
真正的法语的区别，他们一定告诉你，对了，不要问一般的Francophone， 你要问
到过法国或研究过真正法语的。
oread
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Canada did not ask you to learn French, or English for that matter, you CHOSE to. Remember that. The sense of entitlement, if there should be any, comes after years of contribution and sacrifice, not by simply paying a landing fee.
I have said before, a language is a language, there is no such thing as 真正法语. Is Français Parisien 真正法语? What about people living in Marseille, do they speak 真正法语? Or people in Normandy? Or in Switzerland? Or in Morocco? Can you say that Shanghai hua is not Chinese? The fact that you insist on labeling Canadian French "garbage" shows that you don't really understand the notion of language or what makes a language.
p.s. Don't quote hearsays if you can't quote the real source. You have shifted your source of info from "politicians" to "研究过真正法语的", but still can't quote the source. That makes your argument invalid.
I have said before, a language is a language, there is no such thing as 真正法语. Is Français Parisien 真正法语? What about people living in Marseille, do they speak 真正法语? Or people in Normandy? Or in Switzerland? Or in Morocco? Can you say that Shanghai hua is not Chinese? The fact that you insist on labeling Canadian French "garbage" shows that you don't really understand the notion of language or what makes a language.
p.s. Don't quote hearsays if you can't quote the real source. You have shifted your source of info from "politicians" to "研究过真正法语的", but still can't quote the source. That makes your argument invalid.
I was in Ottawa during the 1995 Referendum. I was one of those who 'secretly' wish the Oui side would win.
Quebec deserves to be a proud, indepedent French-only country. In North America, there should be one French-only country, and one English-only country.
Quebec deserves to be a proud, indepedent French-only country. In North America, there should be one French-only country, and one English-only country.
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这个恐怕不准确，会讲英语或法语是移民的条件之一了。
渐渐说得对，语言没有贵贱之分，只有形成语言的背后的历史。
多学一种语言只是为了找工作，好象太功用一点了。当然对找工作有帮助，但应该还有更多的好处吧。比方说“成就感”？另外法语对欧洲其它国语言影响 很大，有朋友去意大利旅行，虽不懂意大利语，但有法语的底子，基本上就能猜个八九不离十。
当然多学语言要付出代价，这才是各人的balance所在。要是能象Matrix那样灌进去的，我到想学它个100多种呢。
还有一个，是我觉得让小孩从小在多种语言的环境里长大，对心智的发展只有积极的作用。那种“小孩太小，语言太多学不了”的担心是多余的。
你真是单纯。你听说过灰省一间酒吧因为酒杯垫子上有英文没法文就被罚款？看渥太华这边，为何法语学校比英语学校有钱？政府里即使快退休的人，不论工作是否与法语有关，政府强迫脱产学法语？同一份工，不同人申请， Francophone优先？政府当然不会用枪指着你学，但会‘强迫’你学。还有，你跟大家说说，你应该知道的，这双语的花费，每年要多少？
政客会蠢到公开说这法语是‘垃圾’吗？还要找SOURCE？是不是单纯？我是接触过一些Francophone才有此结论， 他们的看法其实跟所谓的政客区别不大. 这里的法语词汇及用法上远远比不上真正法语的丰富和精确，这是他们说的，跟我ARGUE也没用。
你那上海话的比喻更是单纯。
政客会蠢到公开说这法语是‘垃圾’吗？还要找SOURCE？是不是单纯？我是接触过一些Francophone才有此结论， 他们的看法其实跟所谓的政客区别不大. 这里的法语词汇及用法上远远比不上真正法语的丰富和精确，这是他们说的，跟我ARGUE也没用。
你那上海话的比喻更是单纯。
oread
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What I meant was that it is your own CHOICE to have come to Canada.
As a Latin language decendent (Spanish, Italian, Portugese and Russian being the rest), French is one of the most influential languages in the world. Knowledge of French (or any other language for that matter) also help to better understand English. We often tend to focus on the differences between languages and fail to recognize the similarities and between them.
Like I said before, I firmly believe that it could only benefit a child to learn a new language, whatever it is.
As a Latin language decendent (Spanish, Italian, Portugese and Russian being the rest), French is one of the most influential languages in the world. Knowledge of French (or any other language for that matter) also help to better understand English. We often tend to focus on the differences between languages and fail to recognize the similarities and between them.
Like I said before, I firmly believe that it could only benefit a child to learn a new language, whatever it is.
最初由 shusheng 发布
这个恐怕不准确，会讲英语或法语是移民的条件之一了。
渐渐说得对，语言没有贵贱之分，只有形成语言的背后的历史。
多学一种语言只是为了找工作，好象太功用一点了。当然对找工作有帮助，但应该还有更多的好处吧。比方说“成就感”？另外法语对欧洲其它国语言影响 很大，有朋友去意大利旅行，虽不懂意大利语，但有法语的底子，基本上就能猜个八九不离十。
当然多学语言要付出代价，这才是各人的balance所在。要是能象Matrix那样灌进去的，我到想学它个100多种呢。
还有一个，是我觉得让小孩从小在多种语言的环境里长大，对心智的发展只有积极的作用。那种“小孩太小，语言太多学不了”的担心是多余的。
oread
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Fine, I'll stop arguing with you, since everything you do "know" is hearsay. I'd lived in Quebec for 11 years, I think I know a little bit about how Francophones feel about their own language. Why don't you let those "接触过一些Francophone" come and argue with me.
Like anything else, bilingualism costs money for sure, whether it is worth it to continue is another topic. The wide range of services aimed to help immigrants to better adapt to Canada also costs money, I rarely hear any complaints from any Chinese on that. What you are trying to do here is to use money as the only measurement of goodness: if it costs money AND if you can't be the beneficiary of such spending, then it's bad; otherwise yahoo bring it on! In other words, you don't really care if bilingualism is justified or not, you are disatisfied only because you are not getting a piece of that pie.
Like anything else, bilingualism costs money for sure, whether it is worth it to continue is another topic. The wide range of services aimed to help immigrants to better adapt to Canada also costs money, I rarely hear any complaints from any Chinese on that. What you are trying to do here is to use money as the only measurement of goodness: if it costs money AND if you can't be the beneficiary of such spending, then it's bad; otherwise yahoo bring it on! In other words, you don't really care if bilingualism is justified or not, you are disatisfied only because you are not getting a piece of that pie.
