主动要求珊去整个贴。

[CHRIS88]

I didn't CHOOSE to belieive the nonexistence of any forms of gods( yours included) nor do I CHOOSE to believe the nonexistence of Santa, Unicorn, or the big green monster that hides in the children's closet. If you did CHOOSE to believe the nonexistence of Santa etc, I do understand why you CHOOSE to believe in god ( specifically, christian god).

Well, it seems to be pretty clear to me that you choose to BELIEVE what I BELIEVE is wrong, and to repeat, I admit what I believe is faith-based but you are at denial.

 

[ForwardRetreat]

Well, it seems to be pretty clear to me that you choose to BELIEVE what I BELIEVE is wrong, and to repeat, I admit what I believe is faith-based but you are at denial.

You might want to withdraw putting your foot into my mouth. I did not CHOOSE to believe. It doesn't really apply. If you understand why I don't believe in Santa, you should understand why I don't believe in gods in any form.

 

[CHRIS88]

You might want to withdraw putting your foot into my mouth. I did not CHOOSE to believe. It doesn't really apply. If you understand why I don't believe in Santa, you should understand why I don't believe in gods in any form.

I don't mean to be mean but this is real a very childish argument. A is false does not automatically prove B is also false. Am I right?

 

[ForwardRetreat]

I don't mean to be mean but this is real a very childish argument. A is false does not automatically prove B is also false. Am I right?

no, it doesn't automatically prove anything, nor am I trying to prove anything. That the logic which I don't believe in gods is the same as that which one doesn't believe in Santa is only a way of showing reglionists how I perceive the concept of gods.

 

[CHRIS88]

no, it doesn't automatically prove anything, nor am I trying to prove anything. That the logic which I don't believe in gods is the same as that which one doesn't believe in Santa is only a way of showing reglionists how I perceive the concept of gods.

Understood.

However, your perception is not necessarily true unless it is proven so or you would have to admit yours is just as "faith-based" as mine. Am I right?

 

[ForwardRetreat]

Understood.

However, your perception is not necessarily true unless it is proven so or you would have to admit yours is just as "faith-based" as mine. Am I right?

Faith is a complete trust in something or someone (espeically gods or reglions)- Oxford Dictionary. In this case, I don't believe in something(religions) or someone ( gods), calling it faith based is far stretch. It's not even idiomatic correct.

 

[CHRIS88]

Time to bus to my dear wife. Talk to you later.

 

[野骆驼]

Faith is a complete trust in something or someone (espeically gods or reglions)- Oxford Dictionary. In this case, I don't believe in something(religions) or someone ( gods), calling it faith based is far stretch. It's not even idiomatic correct.

idiomatic correct?

you faith is "People are wasting their lifes (lives) in churchs (churches)".

 

[野骆驼]

You might want to withdraw putting your foot into my mouth. I did not CHOOSE to believe. It doesn't really apply. If you understand why I don't believe in Santa, you should understand why I don't believe in gods in any form.

I believed Santa Claus would give me gifts when I was a child.

"withdraw putting" your foot ..

 

[野骆驼]

... If you did CHOOSE to believe the nonexistence of Santa etc, I do understand why you CHOOSE to believe in god ( specifically, christian god).

If he did not CHOOSE to believe the nonexistence of Santa etc, do you understand why he CHOOSE to believe in god ( specifically, christian god)?

 

[野骆驼]

My nonblief in diesm ( not just your christian god) is to your nonbelief in the existence of Santa. You don't need a faith to disbelieve the nonexistence of the jolly candy-distributor.

 

[野骆驼]

有沒有覺的ForwardRetreat有點詞窮？ 好長的句子但好像在繞圈圈。

“no, it doesn't automatically prove anything, nor am I trying to prove anything.”

“Faith is a complete trust in something or someone (espeically gods or reglions)- Oxford Dictionary”

“You might want to withdraw putting your foot into my mouth.”

“My nonblief in diesm ( not just your christian god) is to your nonbelief in the existence of Santa.”

 

[Refreshment]

[主动要求珊贴。多谢。 你把有些回帖都珊了， 我看都没看到。干脆都珊了。

想明白的就想明白， 想不明白的就忘了吧 。
我讲的，其实都是些很无聊的事，知道太多了，没什么意思。

主要我想说的：不要拉同胞洗礼。

就这一点。 做到了，上帝就会真祝福你们。

 

[liuwl]

站务讨论
http://bbs.comefromchina.com/forum7/index3.html
http://bbs.comefromchina.com/forum7/thread729515.html

您同很多教会的同胞一样,是个善良的人.
善良的人有个弱点: 轻信他言.
您也有很多新移民困难: 生活曾经艰难,对未来担忧.
这两点加上教会的传教,就会让你尝试祷告. 祷告是一种精神控制方法, 祷告会让你放弃你自己的理智. 尤其在信仰方面. 您不会在通过理智去分析. 因为祷告实际上是通过一些牵强的事实来创造并强化你大脑里的一个上帝的幻觉. 一旦幻觉产生了,您就不会在怀疑,因为他是有事实验证的,尽管是牵强的事实. 这种幻觉就是您的信心.

从您所列举的事实来看, 您是典型的通过这种方式建立信心的信徒. 您可能不承认,但您信的是"成功神学". 因为有大科学家,资本家这样的成功人士给您作了榜样. 您认为通过信仰基督教会带给你类似祝福. 但这肯定不是事实. 在教会有灵性的长老都知道,信仰的本质是"同主背十字架"也就是一同与主受苦. 苦难的时候才是真正体现信心的时候. 试想一下,您这样需要靠资本家,科学家来作见证的,在2000年前困难的时候怎么能有信心呢?

我不是说您不该信,不能信. 信是你的自由,很多人信的很开心. 我只想告诉来这里的同胞,这个基督教不是你们所想象的真理. 我们心中期待的真理是美好的,是不会伤害任何人的. 但基督教圣经里隐藏了诅咒, 一些善良无知的人受到了伤害. 这是我亲眼所见,亲耳所闻. 我也曾经问上帝为什么. 为什么这些很明显善良的人受到这种诅咒. 我突然想到如果我是那些人, 我会怎么想. 他们的家人会多么痛苦.

我突然问自己: 为什么一个在新约里如此仁爱的上帝,一个牺牲自己儿子为了拯救世人的上帝,却公然在旧约圣经里号召屠杀,强奸,奴役 (如果你的家人是被杀的被奴役的,你怎么想)? 为什么一个在新约里告诉外邦人"信心祷告能移山"的上帝,在旧约里却告诉犹太人成败得失都是机遇,盲目追求都是"chasing wind"? 为什么一个在新约里告诉外邦人,"世上财宝都会朽坏,要追求天上财宝"的上帝,却在旧约里告诉犹太人去夺取别人的领地,财宝和女人? 为什么在新约里告诫外邦人要打你左联,还要把右脸给人打得上帝, 在旧约里告诫犹太人要对敌人不要同情?

突然明白, 新约就是古时犹太人仍给外邦人的一个文化大革命, 旧约里有些普世的智慧,但起初那是给犹太人自己的.

善良人总抱一个美好的幻想, 觉得应该有个完美,美好的事物. 新约如此美丽. 如同共产主义. 但也就是一个美丽的谎言. 善良人就容易轻信美丽的谎言. 教会里太多善良的中国人.

你们成年人信了也就罢了, 不要傻着让自己不懂事的孩子也去信. 千万不要让自己的孩子洗礼, 至少让他们成年后有自己的选择, 而不是给他们一个枷锁. 思维控制是非常强的,有些人终身都有阴影. 更不要把别人的未成年的孩子劝说洗礼. 这就不是祝福了.
即使,有愿意去的同胞,也不要让他们一进教会就洗礼, 至少给他们五年的时间. 让他们明白了信什么,在让他们自己决定洗礼的事. 不要跑去问,想不想洗礼阿?什么的. 圣经也说洗礼要靠圣灵而驱动的,一个刚进教会的人,根本就不知道什么是圣灵, 这样的洗礼纯粹是出于peer pressure. 你们的上帝也不喜悦的.

也不要硬拖新移民进教会洗礼, 如果真心帮助同胞, 就给点实际的帮助, 不要以让他们信教为目的. 这才是真心的爱.

最后说点对你们有用的, 有些信基督教时间长的人,尤其是在教会侍奉的人(做事), 在死的时候会吓得不知道自己是上天堂还是下地狱. 事情做的多的弟兄姊妹,尤其如此, 会回想每件在教会作的事, 有些人觉得自己做错了事,冒犯了上帝,认为自己是要下地狱,结果被吓死的. 有些人,就去找牧师, 有的牧师 就会说"把罪加我身,我下地狱",让弟兄上天堂. 结果感动得一些人把家产全捐了. 其实全是,谎言和幻觉. 真是无聊. 如果你真愿意在教会侍奉,千万不要信得太深了. 少祷告一些. 只要记这一句话,"因信称义",
即使做错了,上帝也不会惩罚你. 因为你信了.

这里的人都知道这些, 全都不去教会. 中国人太善良, 有没有人告诉我们, 迟早有些在教会里的同胞要倒霉的.

这里的人都知道基督教是cult, 翻译过来就是说"陷阱". 大陆来的都不知这些. 我本来想说的,但也不知道是不是说了会害一些人. 所以暂时不说.

我以后有空再告诉你们,关于"基督教思维控制,幻觉和神经病"的事.

其实以前, 圣经在天主教期间是不能瞎读的,因为有些人理解错了, 对其中的诅咒不了解的,会无意中伤害到自己和别人. 但现在圣经满街乱撒, 有些人觉得都是美好的, 就瞎读. 别把自己害了.

教会里有少数人明白,但不告诉你们. 都觉得上帝要祝福自己, 而有可能上帝要诅咒别人. 有人可能想说,但也不敢说. 还有些人,明白了之后,就用这些东西来达到自己的目的. 不过,这都是极少数. 但我就担心有个别人会受到伤害. 你们如果明白这些就要好些, 因为cult 只能吓倒不知道的人, 因为他们祷告太多, 幻觉太强.

希望你们的上帝祝福你们.

 

[focus on today]

摟主，

你與上帝已經不遠了。從你的貼中看出，你是信上帝的，只是還沒有建立起個人化的關係。

耶穌說，醫生是給病人治病的。耶穌是來振救罪人的，像樓主這樣無罪的人，不需要信耶穌，對吧？