美国著名经济学家鲁比尼:中国修这么多高铁毫无理性可言

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路透社北京-与中国高铁项目有关的数字令人印象深刻——这里说的是债务,而不是乘客数目。

支持的人认为,高铁项目是战略性投资,可以将中国各地市场连通起来。许多高铁线路将延伸至人烟较为稀少的内陆地区。

反对的人则认为,虽然高铁符合人口密集的东部地区的需求,但建在内陆地区是个浪费,因为以短途飞机和慢速火车作为内陆主要交通工具会更便宜、效率更高。

北京交通大学教授赵坚表示,高铁将成为中国的负担,而非资产。

但已经负债累累的铁道部并未退缩,它预计会在从现在到2015年这段时间里,再投资2.8万亿元用于铁路建设。

政府对4.5万公里快速铁路项目的支持基本意味着,项目肯定不会缺钱。

质疑声音

但局外人也在质疑。

美国经济学家鲁比尼本月早些时候在新加坡接受采访时,谈到他乘坐上海和杭州间高铁的经历。

他说:“他说:“座位一半是空的,新车站四分之三是空的。平行的一条高速公路上,似乎也有四分之三的路面是空的。火车站旁边还有一座上海新建的机场,可以从那里飞往杭州。”


“对于这样一个经济水平的国家,修建两倍甚至三倍的此类基础设施毫无理性可言。规模和成本十分巨大,其中三分之一的项目不会带来任何现金收益。”

甚至就连即将于本月底开通的京沪高铁也面临着不确定的盈利前景。许多分析人士认为,中国对铁路的投资来的太多、太快。

京沪高铁里程达1,318公里,工程造价2,209亿元。全程单程经济舱票价为555元起,与最便宜的打折机票相去不远。

赵坚教授把郑州至西安的高铁称为“大白象”铁路工程的典型例证。

他说:“车厢基本是空的。”这条高铁在2010年2月开通後的头六个月里共运送198万名旅客,而设计运输能力是一年3,700万名旅客。

不会减速

铁道部副部长胡亚东在不久前的新闻发布会上说,中国铁路建设不会减速,投资不会削减。

截止3月,中国铁道部的资产负债比例为58.24%,但这并没有让铁道部退缩。政府认为,对于中国这样一个世界人口第一大国和世界第二大经济体来说,铁路建设与国家发展息息相关。

亚洲开发银行驻华代表处的高级项目官员王芳表示,中国铁道部不用担心其负债率。

“60%的负债率本身不需要担心,中国许多高速公路的负债率超过70%。真正应该担心的是盈利表现,”她说。

摩根大通铁路行业分析师Karen Li表示,对京沪高铁来说,铁道部总经济师余邦利设定的高铁建成後4-7年实现盈利的目标并非不现实。

但其他线路可能没这麽幸运。

Karen Li从香港对路透说:“健康的基础设施建设速度一般应该比需求超前两到三年。对高速铁路来说,目前看,我觉得建设可能要比需求超前五到十年。”

“我觉得,过去三、五年铁路投资的一大部分本应该用于货运铁路建设,以帮助降低物流成本。”她指出,中国物流成本远高于发达国家。(完)
 
美国经济学家鲁比尼本月早些时候在新加坡接受采访时,谈到他乘坐上海和杭州间高铁的经历。

他说:“他说:“座位一半是空的,新车站四分之三是空的。平行的一条高速公路上,似乎也有四分之三的路面是空的。火车站旁边还有一座上海新建的机场,可以从那里飞往杭州。”


“对于这样一个经济水平的国家,修建两倍甚至三倍的此类基础设施毫无理性可言。规模和成本十分巨大,其中三分之一的项目不会带来任何现金收益。”

"平行的一条高速公路上,似乎也有四分之三的路面是空的。"

I don't think so.
 
"平行的一条高速公路上,似乎也有四分之三的路面是空的。"

I don't think so.

有可能, 半夜三点。
 

China's railway boom hurtles into the red

By Michael Martina and Xin Zhou
BEIJING | Thu Jun 23, 2011 6:05am EDT

Source: http://www.reuters.com/article/2011...y-boom-hurtles-into-the-idUSLNE75M04520110623

(Reuters) - The numbers for China's relentless push for a high-speed rail network are impressive -- in terms of debt, not passengers.

The argument in support of the vast project -- with many lines connecting to more sparsely populated inland regions -- is that they are
a strategic investment that will link markets across the country.

Detractors counter that while high-speed rail may suit the densely populated eastern corridor, investment is wasted on inland projects
which are better served, and more cheaply, by short flights and slow trains.

"It will be a liability, not an asset, for China," complained Zhao Jian, a professor with Beijing Jiaotong University, a vocal opponent of
the ambitious plans.

The Ministry of Railways, already deep in debt, is undeterred and expects to splurge another 2.8 trillion yuan between now and 2015
on the project.

State backing for the 45,000 km (27,962 miles) of high-speed track the ministry has pledged to lay by the end of 2015 means it can
almost certainly find the money.

But outsiders, too, are weighing into the debate.

U.S. economist Nouriel Roubini spoke to reporters earlier this month in Singapore of his trip on the Shanghai-Hangzhou high-speed
train, which connects the cities in 40 minutes.

" is half-empty and the brand new station is three-quarters empty. Parallel to that train line, there is also a new highway that looked
three-quarters empty. Next to the train station is also the new local airport of Shanghai and you can fly to Hangzhou," Roubini said.

"There is a no rationale for a country at that economic level to have not just duplication but triplication of those infrastructure projects.
The level of it and the cost of it is massive, and a third of it will generate zero cash," he said.

Even the landmark Beijing-Shanghai line, set to launch by the end of the month, faces uncertain profit prospects and many analysts
are saying the investment in rail is too much too soon.

At a cost of 220.9 billion yuan, the 1,318-km line linking the capital and financial hub will cost one-way economy class passengers
555 yuan to start, just under the cheapest discounted air ticket.

Speeding passengers through the countryside at 300 kph, the new line will serve as the government's new model for passenger
transport.

Professor Zhao cited the line from eastern Henan province's capital Zhengzhou to the Shaanxi city of Xi'an as the perfect example
of a white elephant rail project.

"It is basically empty," he said. In the first six months after its launch in February 2010, the railway reported 1.98 million
passengers. It was designed for 37 million a year.

NO SLOW DOWN

"We will not slow down the pace, and there will be no cut in investments," Vice Minister of Railways Hu Yadong told a news
conference last week.

The ministry's 58.24 percent asset-liability ratio -- as of March -- is no deterrent, with rail development closely linked to national
development in the world's most populous country and second biggest economy.

Wang Fang, a senior project officer who focuses on China's railways at the Asian Development Bank office in Beijing, said the
MOR should not worry about its debt ratio.

"A debt ratio of 60 percent itself is not worrisome. Many expressways in China have a debt ratio of 70 percent of more. What
should be worrying is profitability performance," she said.

JP Morgan rail sector analyst Karen Li said a 4-7 year post-construction profitability target hinted at by MOR's chief economist
Yu Bangli was not unrealistic for the line connecting Beijing and Shanghai.

But other lines may be less lucky.

"Typically for infrastructure, healthy building should outpace demand by two to three years. For high-speed rail, at this point, we
may be looking at 5 to 10 years ahead of demand, in my view," Li told Reuters from Hong Kong.

"I think much of the railway investment in the past three to five years should have been put into the freight rail side," she said,
helping to lower logistics costs which are much higher than in developed countries.

KNOCK-ON BENEFITS

Some experts say the high-speed lines will have wider knock-on benefits for the freight sector and the economy.

New high-speed rails, in theory, will take passenger traffic off old tracks and open them up to freight. With per capita kilometres
of rail low compared to developed countries, advocates say if it is going to build a new rail network anyway, China might as well
build one that is first class.

Wang Shuang, an analyst with the Industrial Securities in Shanghai, estimates MOR operating losses in 2011 of 96.6 billion yuan,
but said rail spending would still boost the economy.

"In terms of a whole region, railways will promote investment along the line in a noticeable way," Wang said, noting that every
dollar spent on railway could generate three dollars in investment.

Even before the official launch of the Beijing-Shanghai line, Yu Shouhai, an investment promotion official at Taian, one of the 24
stations along the line, sees great promise. Projects, including a tourist spot called "Tropical Gardens", were launched ahead of
an anticipated wave of visitors.

"The new railway line has tremendous meaning for us," Yu said. "Since the announcement of the railway blueprint, investors
have been speeding up in putting money down here."

(Editing by Jonathan Thatcher)
 
"平行的一条高速公路上,似乎也有四分之三的路面是空的。"

I don't think so.

上次回国,白天从上海到无锡,走的高速,出了市区后基本是那样
 
暂时赔点钱算什么啊!美国政府背那么高的债呢。
 
上次回国,白天从上海到无锡,走的高速,出了市区后基本是那样

也是。停车场还得有至少1/3是空的,否则就无法出去了。公路上跑车,至少也得有1/2是空的,否则就是停车场了,车也别跑了。

听西方经济学家的话,你就得退回到70年代去才是。
 
Do you really think 美国著名经济学家 is giving a good advice to chinese people and really want China has a good future? Why they don't suggest US government to let chinese invest US and buy US companies?
 
别忘了高铁的军事用途 --- 几百万士兵的快速投送。
 
Do you really think 美国著名经济学家 is giving a good advice to chinese people and really want China has a good future? Why they don't suggest US government to let chinese invest US and buy US companies?

你真地以为西方经济学家、政治家衷心地希望看到一个强盛的中国?
 


:D :D :D :D

上面引的中文,译自 Reuters 今年 6月的一篇文章 。。。为什么要引原文?

因为光看中文标题:"美国著名经济学家鲁比尼:中国修这么多高铁毫无理性可言"。。。

很可能人们会得出一个结论,末日教授 并不看好中国的目前经济。

但英文标题却是比较中性的,"China's railway boom hurtles into the red"。


还有,Prof. Roubini 在另一个Reuters 今年 6月的文章中,应该是在同一次采访中,

说,2013年之后,中国很有可能经济硬着陆,但目前却没有任何迹象

1>。a property bubble,
2>。mounting local government debt and
3>。potential rises in bad loans

会出问题 。。。



从金融信息角度讲 -- 就是从买卖的算盘上看 -- 末日教授 的话,等于说:

"大家放心啦,目前炒中国市,是无有问题的!" :D :D :D :D


小朋友我不是他们,有没有问题,不懂 。。。

但,他们,先去愚弄信息,再用愚弄的信息去愚弄人,却是不得不小心的了。



:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D





 
就理性来说~~中国政府,政党干不理性的事又不是第一次~~:blowzy:
 

上面引的中文,译自 Reuters 今年 6月的一篇文章 。。。为什么要引原文?

因为光看中文标题:"美国著名经济学家鲁比尼:中国修这么多高铁毫无理性可言"。。。

很可能人们会得出一个结论,末日教授 并不看好中国的目前经济。

但英文标题却是比较中性的,"China's railway boom hurtles into the red"。


还有,Prof. Roubini 在另一个Reuters 今年 6月的文章中,应该是在同一次采访中,

说,2013年之后,中国很有可能经济硬着陆,但目前却没有任何迹象

1>。a property bubble,
2>。mounting local government debt and
3>。potential rises in bad loans

会出问题 。。。



从金融信息角度讲 -- 就是从买卖的算盘上看 -- 末日教授 的话,等于说:

"大家放心啦,目前炒中国市,是无有问题的!" :D :D :D :D


小朋友我不是他们,有没有问题,不懂 。。。

但,他们,先去愚弄信息,再用愚弄的信息去愚弄人,却是不得不小心的了。

:cool::cool: 谢谢考证!

很多东西一变成汉语就走味儿。
 
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