- 注册
- 2012-03-04
- 消息
- 1,347
- 荣誉分数
- 124
- 声望点数
- 223
只留下挪亞和那些與他同在方舟裏的。”（創七：23）
鸭，这么说偶跟你是老表。
其实，根据进化论理论，不单单鸭子是你的老表，不仅仅猴子是人类的亲戚，老鼠、苍蝇、蚊子、蟑螂都是人的老表，尽管亲戚关系远一点
，水里的鱼、泥鳅、杀人鱼是关系更远一点老表，哭去吧 前面那个只有一半的鱼化石的某个兄弟，“有可能”是整个人类的祖先！！！
好笑的基督教
- 主题发起人 terry890
- 开始时间
其实，根据进化论理论，不单单鸭子是你的老表，不仅仅猴子是人类的亲戚，老鼠、苍蝇、蚊子、蟑螂都是人的老表，尽管亲戚关系远一点
，水里的鱼、泥鳅、杀人鱼是关系更远一点老表，哭去吧 前面那个只有一半的鱼化石的某个兄弟，“有可能”是整个人类的祖先！！！
- 注册
- 2012-03-04
- 消息
- 1,347
- 荣誉分数
- 124
- 声望点数
- 223
鸭子，这个网站列举很多证据，试图证明人与恐龙曾经同时在地球上存在。Wiki讲里面提到的Paluxy River的人类足印是恶作剧，阿Q没有去查考其他的6、7个例子
http://www.genesispark.com/exhibits/evidence/paleontological/footprints/
- 注册
- 2003-09-30
- 消息
- 79,768
- 荣誉分数
- 23,534
- 声望点数
- 1,373
按那里的理论，整只壁虎，只要有办法让它活上几十上百年，壁虎就可以长成大鳄鱼，继续活，那就成恐龙了。
- 注册
- 2003-09-30
- 消息
- 79,768
- 荣誉分数
- 23,534
- 声望点数
- 1,373
不是那个意思，那个网站说诺亚方舟大洪水之前，许多爬行类动物生命很长，而且爬行类只要不死就可劲儿地长，就长成恐龙那么大了
哇。丫丫丫--》鸭！
不过，按这说法，他们是否也可长成KingKong？
不是那个意思，那个网站说诺亚方舟大洪水之前，许多爬行类动物生命很长，而且爬行类只要不死就可劲儿地长，就长成恐龙那么大了
这个理论，自然也只是一个假说，没有多少科学证据 。但这个理论比进化论的可信度可高多了。
- 注册
- 2003-09-30
- 消息
- 79,768
- 荣誉分数
- 23,534
- 声望点数
- 1,373
- 注册
- 2012-03-04
- 消息
- 1,347
- 荣誉分数
- 124
- 声望点数
- 223
续＃729对大淡水鱼的分析
看了一些资料后，发现真正在研究大淡水鱼的论文很少，而且大多都仅仅引用发现者Shubin、Daeschler等人的观点。反之，反进化论者倒有很多从不同角度分析大淡水鱼的文章，但是照例阿Q不采纳Creationist提供的直接证据
＃729之所以将Shubin对大淡水鱼的详细分析贴出来，是希望有心人可以想一下，但从这半个化石，可以得出多少明确的信息？没有大淡水鱼的太多信息，不防看看1983年开始发现的巴基鯨（Pakicetus）的例子后，跳出大淡水鱼的细节，采取与前面不同的方法，从化石时间来分析大淡水鱼“transitional”的可靠性
http://creation.com/not-at-all-like-a-whale
1983年在巴基斯坦首先发现的是不完整的骨骼：
开始被科学家们认为是已灭绝的陆上哺乳动物及现代鲸鱼的过渡物种。发现者：Philip Gingerich：‘In time and in its morphology, Pakicetus is perfectly intermediate, a missing link between earlier land mammals and later, full-fledged whales.’
并上了1983年4月《科学》杂志的封面－－在海里追逐鱼！同时刊登发现者写的文章：Origin of Whales in Epicontinental Remnant Seas: New Evidence from the Early Eocene of Pakistan
Science 22 April 1983: Online Table of Contents.
近20年后的2001年，完整的骨骼发现了
，科学家们重新画出来一张狼状的还原图:
是的，巴基鯨的例子体现了科学自我纠正的特性，可是阿Q在这里关心的是，150年，究竟发现了多少“可靠”的过渡型化石？
看了一些资料后，发现真正在研究大淡水鱼的论文很少，而且大多都仅仅引用发现者Shubin、Daeschler等人的观点。反之，反进化论者倒有很多从不同角度分析大淡水鱼的文章，但是照例阿Q不采纳Creationist提供的直接证据
＃729之所以将Shubin对大淡水鱼的详细分析贴出来，是希望有心人可以想一下，但从这半个化石，可以得出多少明确的信息？没有大淡水鱼的太多信息，不防看看1983年开始发现的巴基鯨（Pakicetus）的例子后，跳出大淡水鱼的细节，采取与前面不同的方法，从化石时间来分析大淡水鱼“transitional”的可靠性
http://creation.com/not-at-all-like-a-whale
1983年在巴基斯坦首先发现的是不完整的骨骼：
开始被科学家们认为是已灭绝的陆上哺乳动物及现代鲸鱼的过渡物种。发现者：Philip Gingerich：‘In time and in its morphology, Pakicetus is perfectly intermediate, a missing link between earlier land mammals and later, full-fledged whales.’
并上了1983年4月《科学》杂志的封面－－在海里追逐鱼！同时刊登发现者写的文章：Origin of Whales in Epicontinental Remnant Seas: New Evidence from the Early Eocene of Pakistan
Science 22 April 1983: Online Table of Contents.
近20年后的2001年，完整的骨骼发现了
是的，巴基鯨的例子体现了科学自我纠正的特性，可是阿Q在这里关心的是，150年，究竟发现了多少“可靠”的过渡型化石？
- 注册
- 2012-03-04
- 消息
- 1,347
- 荣誉分数
- 124
- 声望点数
- 223
7 January 2010年的《自然》杂志:
Claims of tetrapod trackways predating these body fossils have remained controversial with regard to both age and the identity of the track makers. Here we present well-preserved and securely dated tetrapod tracks from Polish marine tidal flat sediments of early Middle Devonian (Eifelian stage) age that are approximately 18 million years older than the earliest tetrapod body fossils and 10 million years earlier than the oldest elpistostegids. They force a radical reassessment of the timing, ecology and environmental setting of the fish–tetrapod transition, as well as the completeness of the body fossil record.
同期《自然》另一篇文章
The fish--tetrapod transition was thus seemingly quite well documented. There was a consensus that the divergence between some elpistostegalians (such as Tiktaalik or Panderichthys) and tetrapods might have occurred during the Givetian, 391--385 Myr ago. Coeval with the earliest fossil tetrapods, trackways dating to the Late Devonian were evidence for their ability to walk or crawl on shores.
Now, however, Niedźwiedzki et al. lob a grenade into that picture. They report the stunning discovery of tetrapod trackways with distinct digit imprints from Zachemie, Poland, that are unambiguously dated to the lowermost Eifelian (397 Myr ago). This site (an old quarry) has yielded a dozen trackways made by several individuals that ranged from about 0.5 to 2.5 metres in total length, and numerous isolated footprints found on fragments of scree. The tracks predate the oldest tetrapod skeletal remains by 18 Myr and, more surprisingly, the earliest elpistostegalian fishes by about 10 Myr.
Woops, 在波兰发现了比科学家们认为的最早的四足类脊椎动物早了1800万年的四足类动物脚印，比它们的“祖先”大淡水鱼早了1000万年！
Shubin等人质疑这些脚印不是脚趾走出来的，而是鱼走出来的，没有在其他地方看到对这些脚印的质疑，包括3.93亿年的历史和究竟是否四足类动物留下的脚印
ScienceDaily 和 The Guardian有更多的报道。貌似这些脚印得到广泛接受，选用Per Ahlberg和Jennifer A. Clack，两位鱼到四足动物进化的专家的观点：
Tetrapod paleontologist Jenny Clack said the track discovery " blows the whole story out of the water."
Per Ahlberg： "These results force us to reconsider our whole picture of the transition from fish to land animals"
还有wiki的：“ If this is a true tetrapod record, Tiktaalik was a "late-surviving relic" rather than the original transitional form”
不过，这一切发生在美国科学院写的那篇著名的“科学、进化与神创论”之后两年，所以那篇文章还在大力鼓吹大淡水鱼，对始祖鸟等已经受到很多质疑的证据没有太多着墨
Claims of tetrapod trackways predating these body fossils have remained controversial with regard to both age and the identity of the track makers. Here we present well-preserved and securely dated tetrapod tracks from Polish marine tidal flat sediments of early Middle Devonian (Eifelian stage) age that are approximately 18 million years older than the earliest tetrapod body fossils and 10 million years earlier than the oldest elpistostegids. They force a radical reassessment of the timing, ecology and environmental setting of the fish–tetrapod transition, as well as the completeness of the body fossil record.
同期《自然》另一篇文章
The fish--tetrapod transition was thus seemingly quite well documented. There was a consensus that the divergence between some elpistostegalians (such as Tiktaalik or Panderichthys) and tetrapods might have occurred during the Givetian, 391--385 Myr ago. Coeval with the earliest fossil tetrapods, trackways dating to the Late Devonian were evidence for their ability to walk or crawl on shores.
Now, however, Niedźwiedzki et al. lob a grenade into that picture. They report the stunning discovery of tetrapod trackways with distinct digit imprints from Zachemie, Poland, that are unambiguously dated to the lowermost Eifelian (397 Myr ago). This site (an old quarry) has yielded a dozen trackways made by several individuals that ranged from about 0.5 to 2.5 metres in total length, and numerous isolated footprints found on fragments of scree. The tracks predate the oldest tetrapod skeletal remains by 18 Myr and, more surprisingly, the earliest elpistostegalian fishes by about 10 Myr.
Woops, 在波兰发现了比科学家们认为的最早的四足类脊椎动物早了1800万年的四足类动物脚印，比它们的“祖先”大淡水鱼早了1000万年！
ScienceDaily 和 The Guardian有更多的报道。貌似这些脚印得到广泛接受，选用Per Ahlberg和Jennifer A. Clack，两位鱼到四足动物进化的专家的观点：
Tetrapod paleontologist Jenny Clack said the track discovery " blows the whole story out of the water."
Per Ahlberg： "These results force us to reconsider our whole picture of the transition from fish to land animals"
还有wiki的：“ If this is a true tetrapod record, Tiktaalik was a "late-surviving relic" rather than the original transitional form”
不过，这一切发生在美国科学院写的那篇著名的“科学、进化与神创论”之后两年，所以那篇文章还在大力鼓吹大淡水鱼，对始祖鸟等已经受到很多质疑的证据没有太多着墨
- 注册
- 2012-03-04
- 消息
- 1,347
- 荣誉分数
- 124
- 声望点数
- 223
说明一下，哪怕科学们认可确实存在比大淡水鱼早1000万年的四足类动物，他们并没有丝毫怀疑四足类动物－－进而所有的脊椎动物包括人是从鱼进化而来的，看到两种态度
1、一些科学家，俺不理解他们的逻辑，就像波兰的四足类动物足印化石从来没有发生过似的，他们没有因此减少丝毫对大淡水鱼作为中间化石的认可程度，就像大淡水鱼官方网站所示
2、以Per Ahlberg为代表，他们认为大淡水鱼不能再作为有效的过渡性化石存在，科学家们需要重新考虑tetrapods的进化过程，但是，四足类动物从鱼进化而来是不可置疑的。所以进化论会继续进化
"This means not that not only tetrapods but also elpistostegids originated much earlier than we thought, because the position of elpistostegids as evolutionary precursors of tetrapods is not in doubt, and so they must have existed at least as long," says Per Ahlberg.
1、一些科学家，俺不理解他们的逻辑，就像波兰的四足类动物足印化石从来没有发生过似的，他们没有因此减少丝毫对大淡水鱼作为中间化石的认可程度，就像大淡水鱼官方网站所示
2、以Per Ahlberg为代表，他们认为大淡水鱼不能再作为有效的过渡性化石存在，科学家们需要重新考虑tetrapods的进化过程，但是，四足类动物从鱼进化而来是不可置疑的。所以进化论会继续进化
"This means not that not only tetrapods but also elpistostegids originated much earlier than we thought, because the position of elpistostegids as evolutionary precursors of tetrapods is not in doubt, and so they must have existed at least as long," says Per Ahlberg.
续＃729对大淡水鱼的分析
看了一些资料后，发现真正在研究大淡水鱼的论文很少，而且大多都仅仅引用发现者Shubin、Daeschler等人的观点。反之，反进化论者倒有很多从不同角度分析大淡水鱼的文章，但是照例阿Q不采纳Creationist提供的直接证据
＃729之所以将Shubin对大淡水鱼的详细分析贴出来，是希望有心人可以想一下，但从这半个化石，可以得出多少明确的信息？没有大淡水鱼的太多信息，不防看看1983年开始发现的巴基鲸（Pakicetus）的例子后，跳出大淡水鱼的细节，采取与前面不同的方法，从化石时间来分析大淡水鱼“transitional”的可靠性
http://creation.com/not-at-all-like-a-whale
1983年在巴基斯坦首先发现的是不完整的骨骼：
开始被科学家们认为是已灭绝的陆上哺乳动物及现代鲸鱼的过渡物种。发现者：Philip Gingerich：‘In time and in its morphology, Pakicetus is perfectly intermediate, a missing link between earlier land mammals and later, full-fledged whales.’
并上了1983年4月《科学》杂志的封面－－在海里追逐鱼！同时刊登发现者写的文章：Origin of Whales in Epicontinental Remnant Seas: New Evidence from the Early Eocene of Pakistan
Science 22 April 1983: Online Table of Contents.
近20年后的2001年，完整的骨骼发现了，科学家们重新画出来一张狼状的还原图:
是的，巴基鲸的例子体现了科学自我纠正的特性，可是阿Q在这里关心的是，150年，究竟发现了多少“可靠”的过渡型化石？
很有意思的一个例证。值得仍然把进化论当作科学事实来“信”的人认真看一看、想一想。
- 注册
- 2012-03-04
- 消息
- 1,347
- 荣誉分数
- 124
- 声望点数
- 223
续#750
在自然的这篇文章中，附有如下两张图：
* Illustration showing how animal could have made trackways
* Laser scan of surface showing detail of individual print and diagram relating it to an animal’s foot
一如既往，很多科学家选择了忽视波兰发现的这些脚印，或者承认这些脚印，但同时继续保持大淡水鱼在“鱼到四足类动物”进化中的尊贵地位。几个脚印，看起来很不起眼，可是在很多科学家里它意义重大：
“They force a radical reassessment of the timing, ecology and environmental setting of the fish-tetrapod transition, as well as the completeness of the body fossil record.” ---- 来自《自然》相同的文章, Grzegorz Niedźwiedzki, Piotr Szrek, Katarzyna Narkiewicz, Marek Narkiewicz & Per E. Ahlberg
“[It] will cause a significant reappraisal of our understanding of tetrapod origins.” --- 同期《自然》的另一篇文章，相同作者
“[They] could lead to significant shifts in our knowledge of the timing and ecological setting of early tetrapod evolution.” -- Roach, J，来自Natianal Geography的文章
“We thought we’d pinned down the origin of limbed tetrapods. We have to rethink the whole thing.” --Jenifer Clack， http://news.sciencemag.org/sciencenow/2010/01/06-02.html
“That’s surprising, but this is what the fossil evidence tells us.” -- Philippe Janvier,http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/8443879.stm
“These results force us to reconsider our whole picture of the transition from fish to land animals.” Per Ahlberg
在自然的这篇文章中，附有如下两张图：
* Illustration showing how animal could have made trackways
* Laser scan of surface showing detail of individual print and diagram relating it to an animal’s foot
一如既往，很多科学家选择了忽视波兰发现的这些脚印，或者承认这些脚印，但同时继续保持大淡水鱼在“鱼到四足类动物”进化中的尊贵地位。几个脚印，看起来很不起眼，可是在很多科学家里它意义重大：
“They force a radical reassessment of the timing, ecology and environmental setting of the fish-tetrapod transition, as well as the completeness of the body fossil record.” ---- 来自《自然》相同的文章, Grzegorz Niedźwiedzki, Piotr Szrek, Katarzyna Narkiewicz, Marek Narkiewicz & Per E. Ahlberg
“[It] will cause a significant reappraisal of our understanding of tetrapod origins.” --- 同期《自然》的另一篇文章，相同作者
“[They] could lead to significant shifts in our knowledge of the timing and ecological setting of early tetrapod evolution.” -- Roach, J，来自Natianal Geography的文章
“We thought we’d pinned down the origin of limbed tetrapods. We have to rethink the whole thing.” --Jenifer Clack， http://news.sciencemag.org/sciencenow/2010/01/06-02.html
“That’s surprising, but this is what the fossil evidence tells us.” -- Philippe Janvier,http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/8443879.stm
“These results force us to reconsider our whole picture of the transition from fish to land animals.” Per Ahlberg
