有人知道火烧圆明园的英法联军中最高长官之一的英国特使是谁吗？

[wilson111]

好的，麻烦您别在把您的观点输入给我了，我总结的结论是您的观点信息量太大，我接受不了。

观点不应该是别人输入的，应该是你自己在占有很多材料的情况下自己总结出来的。
你愿意接受别人输入的观点，不愿意接受自己总结的，谁都没有办法

 

[lindamy]

如果他们进了北京，把故宫抢了烧了，并且把皇帝赶走，另外成立政权，是侵略无疑。结果他们只要了一小块土地，要求他们可以在特定地点进行贸易，要求他们的人可以买卖土地，租用房屋，可以建设教堂等，说明什么？以前这些他们没办法做到，因为大清对他们实行歧视，不准他们贸易，不准买卖土地，租用房屋。

这逻辑太强盗了！要通商可以谈，人家不想，你就有理由打进来杀人放火？即使因为被虐杀的同胞，也不是理由。中国政府有错，该赔的赔，几百宫女太监也是生命。
日本人是侵略，没有异议吧？

 

[gcy1208]

简单说一下，
如果你非要定义占地盘才叫侵略，那么英法联军叫杀人放火，毁坏珍贵园林不为过吧，一样是强盗行径，无论他们有何理由。
任何形式的大屠杀，大毁坏，原因不是最重要的，没有人有任何理由向无辜的人群，艺术宝藏报复。
纳粹杀犹太人，印尼杀华人，陕甘回乱，卢旺达种族屠杀，911事件，阿富汗炸大佛，都是屠杀，毁灭或者恐怖活动，他们的理由不重要。
简单

以及为了利益挑起的战争

 

[gcy1208]

那里面有具有外交豁免权的外交人员，巴夏礼Sir Harry Smith Parkes，他当时是英国驻大清国大使

那卢沟桥事变的印子，引起了这么多年的侵华战争。死了多少人？即使假设当初真的有士兵失踪了，不是日本造谣找借口。那这场战争的浩劫就有正义的理由了吗？

 

[lindamy]

你忘记了当时圆明园关押着39人，包括外交官和记者，其中约一半被虐待致死，而且维基百科上矛盾的说法是烧死300太监与宫女，同一页里面又写了英法联军在烧圆明园之前贴出告示说是大清政府不守约，与百姓无关，因此不应该有出现杀人行为。

另外请注意到外交人员的豁免权问题，清朝以酷刑虐待外交人员即楼主说的，而国际惯例是外交人员不受迫害及不受法律制裁，对有外交豁免权外交人员的侵犯视同对该国领土的侵犯。

杀死英国人是犯罪，无论有无特权，虐杀更是犯罪。两国打进来，杀人放火，无论任何理由，都是侵略，强盗行为。
你为什么选择不信维基上说，死了300宫女，太监，那么巨大的皇家园子，能没人值守吗？皇帝，后宫随时可能来住。
比如我不清楚中国以何理由打入越南，在我看来，只能是侵略，教训一下不是理由。中国使馆从丛林中逃出来的。

 

[lindamy]

这里有新闻，是伊朗动用特种部队解救外交官，按照各位的思维逻辑，应该算是伊朗侵略也门了

浏览附件838675

乱扯什么，能救当然救，伊朗杀人放火了吗？
英国把巴夏利救走是正当行为，杀人放火不是。

 

[lindamy]

英国外交官被清朝违反国际法进行监禁和虐待

你的意思，被报复是应得的?
救人和杀人有本质的区别。

 

[向问天]

我虽然在圆明园附近住过很多年，今年64时第一次进园参观，女儿说这也不奇怪，就像是我在渥太华住了近20年，还没去过总督府。
以前听说过 Elgin St.的Lord Elgin 参加过八国联军，这次参观后才知道，他是英法联军的英国最高长官。
关于这个惨案，现在的资料文献显示了很多和我们以前听到读到的很不同的侧面。哪些更接近事实，还需要多方了解。上面转一封园内展示的法国作家雨果的一封信。

八国联军跟英法联军这两次入侵时间是差了60年。

此强盗活了多久？

 

[anti-cnn]

某傻逼的给洋强盗的辩护词很有意思。

我用一个比喻来演示他的逻辑：
有人杀了他妈。他为杀人犯辩护。辩护的理由是，当时他爸也在，为什么他爸没被杀呢？ 他由此得出结论：强盗杀他妈是合理的。

精辟。

 

[anti-cnn]

当年西方看中国和看北美印地安人差不多，
加拿大政府已经给原住民道歉了，
英法侵略者却得到斯德哥尔摩患者的辩护。

 

[ztbll]

某傻逼的给洋强盗的辩护词很有意思。

我用一个比喻来演示他的逻辑：
有人杀了他妈。他为杀人犯辩护。辩护的理由是，当时他爸也在，为什么他爸没被杀呢？ 他由此得出结论：强盗杀他妈是合理的。

圆明园是皇家私人园林，故宫是国家政权所在的，在奴才的眼里自然没有分别，但外国入侵者哪能体会出奴才护主心切？土工的历史观一直教育你要看历史问题不要超越历史局限性，别被这边的白左带歪了。

 

[lindamy]

八国联军跟英法联军这两次入侵时间是差了60年。

此强盗活了多久？

以前听说不确切，未经核实。

 

[27149]

八国联军跟英法联军这两次入侵时间是差了60年。

此强盗活了多久？

火烧圆明园是1860年，八国联军是1900年。体育老师教了老向的历史还是数学

 

[gcy1208]

世界至少有两个地方的马路，用这个大虾的名字命名。渥太华和香港

浏览附件838644 浏览附件838645

这个人跟加拿大有啥关系？来过加拿大吗？咱主干道为啥用他命名？

 

[lindamy]

这个人跟加拿大有啥关系？来过加拿大吗？咱主干道为啥用他命名？

在来中国之前，他是加拿大总督。
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Bruce,_8th_Earl_of_Elgin
Canada
Statue of Elgin in front of the Parliament Building in Quebec

In 1847 he was appointed Governor General of Canada by the Prime Minister Earl Grey.[7] Under Lord Elgin, the first real attempts began at establishing responsible government in Canada. Lord Elgin became the first Governor General to distance himself from the affairs of the legislature. Since then, the Governor-General has had a largely symbolic role with regards to the political affairs of the country. As Governor-General, he wrestled with the costs of receiving high levels of immigration in the Canadas, a major issue in the constant debate about immigration during the 19th century.[citation needed]

In 1849 the Baldwin-Lafontaine government passed the Rebellion Losses Bill, compensating French Canadians for losses suffered during the Rebellions of 1837.[citation needed] Lord Elgin granted royal assent to the bill despite heated Tory opposition and his own misgivings over how his action would be received in England. The decision sparked the Burning of the Parliament Buildings in Montreal by an English-speaking mob. Elgin was assaulted. Instead of calling in the military, he withdrew his family to their country residence and allowed civil authorities to restore order. The French-speaking minority in the Canadian legislature also unsuccessfully tried to have him removed from his post.[citation needed] However, due to his relations with the United States, his support of the self-government and defence of the colony, and his settlement of the free-trade and fishery questions, he was raised to the British peerage as Baron Elgin in 1849.[6]

Also in 1849, the Stony Monday Riot took place in Bytown on Monday 17 September. Tories and Reformists clashed over the planned visit of Lord Elgin, one man was killed and many sustained injuries. Two days later, the two political factions, armed with cannon, muskets and pistols faced off on the Sappers Bridge. Although the conflict was defused in time by the military, a general support for the Crown's representative, triumphed in Bytown (renamed Ottawa by Queen Victoria in 1854). In 1854, Lord Elgin negotiated the Reciprocity Treaty with the United States in an attempt to stimulate the Canadian economy. Later that year, he granted royal assent to the law that abolished the seigneurial system in Quebec, and then resigned as Governor-General.[citation needed]

Soon after his return to England in 1854, Lord Palmerston offered him a seat in the cabinet as Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster, which he declined.[6]

China and Japan

In 1857, Lord Elgin was appointed High Commissioner and Plenipotentiary in China and the Far East to assist in the process of opening up China and Japan to Western trade.[3] During the Second Opium War, he led the bombardment of Canton (Guangzhou) and oversaw the end of the war by signing the Treaty of Tientsin (Tianjin) on 26 June 1858.
Entry of Lord Elgin into Peking, 1860

In 1859 Chinese troops continued to attack, and Lord Russell sent out Lord Elgin as ambassador extraordinary to demand an apology for the attack, the execution of the treaty, and an indemnity for the military and naval expenditure.[6] In June 1860, Lord Elgin arrived in China to assist with additional attacks, which were initially led by his brother. On 18 October 1860, not having received the Chinese surrender and wishing to spare the imperial capital of Peking (Beijing), he ordered the complete destruction of the Old Summer Palace (Yuanming Yuan) outside the city in retaliation for the torture and execution of almost twenty European and Indian prisoners, including two British envoys and The Times journalist Thomas Bowlby. The Old Summer Palace was a complex of palaces and gardens eight kilometres northwest of the walls of Beijing; it had been built during the 18th and early 19th centuries, and was where the emperors of the Qing dynasty resided and handled government affairs. An alternative account says that Lord Elgin had initially considered the destruction of the Forbidden City. However, fearing that this act might interfere with the signing of the Convention of Peking, which was where it was being negotiated, he opted for the destruction of the Old Summer Palace in its stead.[8]

The Old Summer Palace was set aflame by 3,500 British troops and burnt for three days. Lord Elgin and his troops looted many treasures from the palace and took them to Britain. Attacks on the nearby Summer Palace (Qingyi Yuan) were also made, but the extent of destruction was not as great as to the Old Summer Palace. On 24 October 1860, Lord Elgin signed the Convention of Peking, which stipulated that China was to cede part of Kowloon Peninsula and Hong Kong in perpetuity to Britain.[citation needed]
Lord Elgin's procession in Peking, accompanied by 100 cavalry and 400 infantry

In between Lord Elgin's two trips to China, he had visited Japan. In August 1858, he signed a Treaty of Amity and Commerce whose negotiation was much eased by the recent Harris Treaty between Japan and the United States. Lord Elgin was ambivalent about the British policy on forcing opium on the people in the Far East. It was not without internal struggle that he carried out the duty laid on him by Britain. In a letter to his wife, in regard to the bombing of Canton, he wrote, "I never felt so ashamed of myself in my life."[3]
India
Grave memorial at St. John in the Wilderness church in Dharamsala

Within a month of Elgin's return to England, Lord Palmerston selected him to be viceroy and governor-general of India. He became viceroy in 1862, the first viceroy directly appointed by the Crown, and as subject to the Secretary of State for India. Elgin tried to hold the Dutch in Sumatra in check, and marched a force to the Peshawar border to enforce earlier treaties.[6]

He was the first to use Peterhoff, Shimla as the official residence of the Viceroy. In 1863, he was travelling from there to Sialkot, an arduous journey at a high elevation which exhausted him.[6] He died in 1863 of a heart attack while crossing a swinging rope and wood bridge over the river Chadly, on the lap between Kullu and Lahul.[9] He was buried in the churchyard of St. John in the Wilderness in Dharamshala.