渥太华的社区传播从何时开始的?

我没有仔细追踪新闻报道,不知官方的说法是从哪天,哪个病例开始的。

我只是看到我村CTC 和 Ottawa Public Health 发布的数据图很不同。从3月25日起,开始关注每天公布的数据,发现CTC的数据和一般网站发布的每天确诊病例一致,但是 Public Health 发表的数据与众不同,每天的新增数目不是更新加在最后的数据上,而是每天会修改以前的数据。而且多数增加,个别时会减少。

以我们所有人都知道的3月11日,我村第一例确诊病例,是从奥地利滑雪回来的,但是现在 Public Health 的数据显示,我村第一确诊病例是在2月20日。现在3月11日的确诊病例不是1,而是48. 那么我村的社区传播是从何时开始的呢?现在每天新增的几十例大概大多属于本地型。早在发现第一例确诊的输入型之前20天,我村已经确诊至少48例,已成蔓延趋势。

3月23日星期一,是渥太华第一批回家工作的日子,当时公布的确诊数是:24,现在Public Health修正后发布的数据是263,11倍。

官方公布的加拿大数据在3月11日是118,48 / 118 = 41%都在小小的渥太华了。

所以,现在多个老人院,不断发现新的大量确诊病人,和死亡是从何时开始社区传播的?

同样,美国现在超过50万的确诊人数,纽约州已经超过世界所有其他国家确诊人数。美国的数据表明(在最下面几行),仅3人是从武汉撤侨,两艘游轮共149人,军队3366。这样是数据分布像是最近一个月由输入型转为本地型传播的吗?

在40天以前的3月1日,美国确诊数是91,加拿大是24,40天内,现在分别是:502876,22148. 美国增加了5526倍,加拿大增加923倍。


Ottawa Public Health(OPH)的数据不是大家用的“通常的 confirmed cases” vs. date 曲线,而是 epidemic curve (epi curve or epidemiological curve),是 scientific community/research health professional 用的,OPH的图标也清楚标明“Cumulative epidemiological curve of Ottawa residents with confirmed COVID-19, by the EARLIEST of onset date, test and reported date”。举个例子,一个病人3月11日出现症状,过了一周后觉得可能是 covid 19,3月18日去测试,3月28日结果出来阳性确诊,那么在通常的统计中,这个病例算入3月28的数据,但是在 OPH 的 epi curve 中,这个病例最后会算入3月11日的数据中去。

下面是来自CDC网站的关于epidemic curve的解释:


An epidemic curve (epi curve) shows progression of illnesses in an outbreak over time. Epi curves depict when people became ill by day, week, or month. In foodborne outbreak investigations, this information is often shown by the week people became ill. The horizontal axis (x-axis) is the week when a person became ill, also called the week of illness onset. The vertical axis (y-axis) is the number of persons with illness onset each week. During ongoing outbreak investigations, the epi curve is updated as new data become available. There are several important issues in understanding and interpreting epi curves during ongoing outbreak investigations.

  • There is an inherent delay between the date that an illness starts and the date that the case is reported to public health authorities. This delay typically takes 2-3 weeks for Salmonella infections. Thus, for example, someone who got sick with a Salmonella infection last week is very unlikely to have their infection reported to public health authorities by now, and someone who got sick 3 weeks ago may just be reported now.
  • Some background cases of illness are likely to occur that would have happened even without an outbreak. This makes it difficult to say exactly which case is the first in an outbreak. Epidemiologists typically focus on the first recognized cluster (group) of illnesses rather than the very first case. Due to the inherent reporting delay described above, the cluster is sometimes not detected until several weeks after the persons became ill.
  • For some cases, the date of illness onset is not known because it takes time before someone from the health department can do an interview to ask for this information. Sometimes, this interview never occurs. If investigators know the date that a specimen from an ill person arrived in the laboratory for testing, they may estimate the date of illness onset as 3 days before the specimen submission date.
  • It can be difficult to determine when cases start to decline because of the reporting delay. This information can become clearer as time passes.
It can be difficult to say when the outbreak is over because of the reporting delay. The delay means that the curve for the most recent 3 weeks always looks like the outbreak could be ending even during an active outbreak. The full shape of the curve is clear only after the outbreak is over.

波士顿大学一段关于epidemic curve的内有说根据epidemic curve可以判断是那一种outbreak:Point source outbreaks (epidemics)Continuous common source epidemics or Propagated (or progressive source) epidemic.

 
我没有仔细追踪新闻报道,不知官方的说法是从哪天,哪个病例开始的。

我只是看到我村CTC 和 Ottawa Public Health 发布的数据图很不同。从3月25日起,开始关注每天公布的数据,发现CTC的数据和一般网站发布的每天确诊病例一致,但是 Public Health 发表的数据与众不同,每天的新增数目不是更新加在最后的数据上,而是每天会修改以前的数据。而且多数增加,个别时会减少。

以我们所有人都知道的3月11日,我村第一例确诊病例,是从奥地利滑雪回来的,但是现在 Public Health 的数据显示,我村第一确诊病例是在2月20日。现在3月11日的确诊病例不是1,而是48. 那么我村的社区传播是从何时开始的呢?现在每天新增的几十例大概大多属于本地型。早在发现第一例确诊的输入型之前20天,我村已经确诊至少48例,已成蔓延趋势。

3月23日星期一,是渥太华第一批回家工作的日子,当时公布的确诊数是:24,现在Public Health修正后发布的数据是263,11倍。

官方公布的加拿大数据在3月11日是118,48 / 118 = 41%都在小小的渥太华了。

所以,现在多个老人院,不断发现新的大量确诊病人,和死亡是从何时开始社区传播的?

同样,美国现在超过50万的确诊人数,纽约州已经超过世界所有其他国家确诊人数。美国的数据表明(在最下面几行),仅3人是从武汉撤侨,两艘游轮共149人,军队3366。这样是数据分布像是最近一个月由输入型转为本地型传播的吗?

在40天以前的3月1日,美国确诊数是91,加拿大是24,40天内,现在分别是:502876,22148. 美国增加了5526倍,加拿大增加923倍。

美国测试总数:2538888,确诊数:502876,阳性率:502876 / 2538888 = 19.8%,也就是说,1/5测试人群感染。

浏览附件893847

浏览附件893817
从3月25日开始观察,Public Health 发表的3月11日的确诊病例数。

Search:

USA
State
Total
Cases
New
Cases
Total
Deaths
New
Deaths
Active
Cases
Tot Cases/
1M pop
Deaths/
1M pop
Total
Tests
Tests/
1M pop
Source
USA Total502,876018,7470456,8151,519572,538,8887,670
New York172,3587,844148,2808,786400417,88521,301[1] [2] [3] [4] [5] [6] [7]
New Jersey54,5881,93251,9746,146218113,52312,781[1] [2]
Michigan22,7831,28121,4332,28812972,0447,235[1] [2] [3]
California21,07358419,54953815164,8634,211[1] [2] [3]
Massachusetts20,97459920,3653,07188102,37214,988[1] [2]
Pennsylvania20,34044619,7241,59035113,0198,836[1] [2] [3] [4]
Louisiana19,25375518,4484,12816292,28019,787[1]
Florida17,96841917,44987220167,1418,114[1] [2]
Illinois17,88759617,2411,3954687,5276,827[1] [2] [3] [4]
Texas12,18624810,3534379115,9184,157[1] [2] [3] [4] [5] [6] [7] [8]
Georgia11,85942511,4031,1524146,1474,481[1] [2] [3]
Connecticut10,53844810,0402,94212533,5029,354[1] [2]
Washington10,1954838,6381,3986692,99912,749[1] [2] [3] [4] [5] [6] [7] [8] [9] [10] [11] [12] [13] [14]
Maryland6,9681716,4001,1612844,4487,404[1]
Indiana6,9073006,5931,0414535,0405,279[1] [2]
Colorado6,5102506,2201,1774532,6535,903[1]
Ohio5,8782315,6475052058,5735,031[1]
Tennessee4,862983,8437311562,7999,442[1] [2] [3]
Virginia4,5091214,3865361435,4594,214[1]
North Carolina4,088843,918403857,6455,676[1] [2] [3]
Missouri3,7991013,6296241740,7406,690[1] [2] [3] [4] [5] [6]
Arizona3,112972,9954481437,7345,432[1]
Wisconsin3,0681282,8755312236,2936,281[1] [2] [3] [4] [5] [6]
South Carolina3,065722,9936181528,1835,687[1]
Alabama3,008802,9086181620,6054,236[1]
Nevada2,5841022,4348843527,2869,335[1] [2]
Mississippi2,469822,3878262721,1017,060[1]
Utah2,102172,059690640,76213,385[1]
Rhode Island2,015491,9561,9074615,43214,605[1] [2] [3]
Oklahoma1,794881,1844582222,3705,709[1] [2]
Kentucky1,693901,2973812024,2885,470[1]
District Of Columbia1,660381,1962,425569,35513,667[1]
Idaho1,396251,3718271513,7648,155[1] [2] [3]
Iowa1,388311,2684431015,9535,093[1] [2] [3] [4] [5] [6] [7]
Oregon1,371481,3233361227,2246,669[1] [2]
Minnesota1,336575472421033,8946,132[1] [2]
Delaware1,326321,1171,397349,89010,416[1]
Arkansas1,20224849402817,1515,735[1] [2]
Kansas1,166501,1164011711,4143,924[1] [2] [3] [4] [5] [6] [7]
New Mexico1,09119901521927,09812,950[1]
New Hampshire88522636659169,9587,411[1] [2] [3]
Vermont679246551,086388,65713,852[1]
Nebraska6481763134099,4744,974[1] [2]
Maine58617323440136,6254,971[1] [2]
West Virginia5745512314315,1018,256[1]
South Dakota536635362077,6478,848[1] [2]
Hawaii4658206327616,14911,356[1] [2]
Montana365619435068,2977,965[1] [2] [3]
North Dakota278616737089,60812,773[1]
Wyoming2531244355,2559,032[1] [2]
Alaska246718433397,43210,063[1]
Guam130485605[1]
Northern Mariana Islands112945[1]
Puerto Rico72539682214127,2442,139[1] [2]
United States Virgin Islands5016368[1]
US Military3,366133,0540[1]
Navajo Nation558225360[1]
Grand Princess Ship10331000[1]
Wuhan Repatriated333
Diamond Princess Ship464646
Total:502,876018,7470456,8151,519572,538,8887,670
CTC? 是 CTV 吧? 它的数字发布在什么地方?
 
举个例子,一个病人3月11日出现症状,过了一周后觉得可能是 covid 19,3月18日去测试,3月28日结果出来阳性确诊,那么在通常的统计中,这个病例算入3月28的数据,但是在 OPH 的 epi curve 中,这个病例最后会算入3月11日的数据中去。

补充一点,在我上面的例子中,3月28日OPH在病例确诊的时候,可能已经知道这个病人是3月11日出现症状的,因为在3月18日测试取样的时候可以问病人获得这个性息,但是OPH也可能还不知道这个病人是3月11日出现症状的,那么就需要询问病人什么时候开始出现症状的,这就需要花更长的时间才能更新 epi curve,因为医务人员都非常忙,不会因为一个数据特意询问病人,只会在有机会(比如了解病人病情)的时候顺带询问一下以获得开始出现症状的日期,这也是为什么OPH epi curve上3月11日的病例到现在还在变化。
 
瞎想什么,听政府的不好吗?自己闲着无聊瞎琢磨
 
CTC? 是 CTV 吧? 它的数字发布在什么地方?
CTV昨天至今没有更新,图上显示的数据还是458,所以没有贴他的图。

1586624690785.png


 
OTTAWA -- Ottawa Public Health is reporting 30 new laboratory-confirmed cases of COVID-19 in the city, with two new deaths.

The epidemiology update, published Saturday, says there have been 524 lab-confirmed cases of COVID-19 in Ottawa, as of 4 p.m. April 10.

Eleven people in Ottawa have died from the disease.
 
瞎想什么,听政府的不好吗?自己闲着无聊瞎琢磨
华人社区大部分从中国,特别是从湖北旅行回来的人亏得没有听政府的:旅行归来该干嘛干嘛, 而是选择了主动自我隔离。华人社区也亏得在武汉封城后迅速的取消了几乎所有的中国新年庆祝活动,才没有造成可能的在华人社区的大传播。
 
最后编辑:
4/06/2020 462 26
4/07/2020 487 25
4/08/2020 514 27
看看这周开始三天Epidemiological curve 已经连续这么多,这应该只是部分出结果的数据,可以想象这周实际是比以前更厉害的爆发。
 
4/06/2020 462 26
4/07/2020 487 25
4/08/2020 514 27
看看这周开始三天Epidemiological curve 已经连续这么多,这应该只是部分出结果的数据,可以想象这周实际是比以前更厉害的爆发。
这正是我想说的主要方面,我们每天看到的数据,过10天,30天会增长几倍,甚至50倍,比如3月11日的数字,从1 到今天的50.
 
这正是我想说的主要方面,我们每天看到的数据,过10天,30天会增长几倍,甚至50倍,比如3月11日的数字,从1 到今天的50.
你最好分析一下为啥渥太华这么多人,估计是大众,即使现在都跟没事儿人一样 :jiayou:
 
Ottawa Public Health(OPH)的数据不是大家用的“通常的 confirmed cases” vs. date 曲线,而是 epidemic curve (epi curve or epidemiological curve),是 scientific community/research health professional 用的,OPH的图标也清楚标明“Cumulative epidemiological curve of Ottawa residents with confirmed COVID-19, by the EARLIEST of onset date, test and reported date”。举个例子,一个病人3月11日出现症状,过了一周后觉得可能是 covid 19,3月18日去测试,3月28日结果出来阳性确诊,那么在通常的统计中,这个病例算入3月28的数据,但是在 OPH 的 epi curve 中,这个病例最后会算入3月11日的数据中去。



下面是来自CDC网站的关于epidemic curve的解释:






An epidemic curve (epi curve) shows progression of illnesses in an outbreak over time. Epi curves depict when people became ill by day, week, or month. In foodborne outbreak investigations, this information is often shown by the week people became ill. The horizontal axis (x-axis) is the week when a person became ill, also called the week of illness onset. The vertical axis (y-axis) is the number of persons with illness onset each week. During ongoing outbreak investigations, the epi curve is updated as new data become available. There are several important issues in understanding and interpreting epi curves during ongoing outbreak investigations.



There is an inherent delay between the date that an illness starts and the date that the case is reported to public health authorities. This delay typically takes 2-3 weeks for Salmonella infections. Thus, for example, someone who got sick with a Salmonella infection last week is very unlikely to have their infection reported to public health authorities by now, and someone who got sick 3 weeks ago may just be reported now.

Some background cases of illness are likely to occur that would have happened even without an outbreak. This makes it difficult to say exactly which case is the first in an outbreak. Epidemiologists typically focus on the first recognized cluster (group) of illnesses rather than the very first case. Due to the inherent reporting delay described above, the cluster is sometimes not detected until several weeks after the persons became ill.

For some cases, the date of illness onset is not known because it takes time before someone from the health department can do an interview to ask for this information. Sometimes, this interview never occurs. If investigators know the date that a specimen from an ill person arrived in the laboratory for testing, they may estimate the date of illness onset as 3 days before the specimen submission date.

It can be difficult to determine when cases start to decline because of the reporting delay. This information can become clearer as time passes.

It can be difficult to say when the outbreak is over because of the reporting delay. The delay means that the curve for the most recent 3 weeks always looks like the outbreak could be ending even during an active outbreak. The full shape of the curve is clear only after the outbreak is over.



波士顿大学一段关于epidemic curve的内有说根据epidemic curve可以判断是那一种outbreak:Point source outbreaks (epidemics)Continuous common source epidemics or Propagated (or progressive source) epidemic.




补充一点,在我上面的例子中,3月28日OPH在病例确诊的时候,可能已经知道这个病人是3月11日出现症状的,因为在3月18日测试取样的时候可以问病人获得这个性息,但是OPH也可能还不知道这个病人是3月11日出现症状的,那么就需要询问病人什么时候开始出现症状的,这就需要花更长的时间才能更新 epi curve,因为医务人员都非常忙,不会因为一个数据特意询问病人,只会在有机会(比如了解病人病情)的时候顺带询问一下以获得开始出现症状的日期,这也是为什么OPH epi curve上3月11日的病例到现在还在变化。

谢谢你的详细回复.

我明白Public Health公布数据的方法epidemiological curve与多数网站不同,by EARLIEST of onset date, test and reported date, 我的主要目的是想了解与我们密切相关的渥太华新冠病人的确诊情况,因为我们个人基本不具备核查数据真伪很准确性的条件,我们只能选择相信官方的数据。因为渥太华其他网站公布的数据虽然输出方式与Public Health不同,但是只是不去修正以前的数据,最新发布的数据总数完全相同的,实际是采用Public Health发布的最新数据更新最后一天的数据。我认为这两种方法各有优缺点,Public Health的方法追溯源头,同事也带来很多不便的后果。

使用不方便,因为大多数网站发布数据方法不同,带来不习惯。

Public Health 每天公布的数据绝不是仅仅修改右十几天的侧灰色区域,而是几乎会修改至少40- 50天的数据。

以今天和昨天的数据为例,数据变动从2月23日开始,将近50天以前。这样每天修正数据意义何在?只为了把新增这几十个病例,均匀地分布到50天以前?调整成比较光滑的曲线?

19-Feb20-Feb21-Feb22-Feb23-Feb24-Feb25-Feb26-Feb27-Feb28-Feb29-Feb1-Mar2-Mar3-Mar4-Mar5-Mar6-Mar7-Mar8-Mar9-Mar10-Mar11-Mar12-Mar13-Mar14-Mar15-Mar16-Mar17-Mar18-Mar19-Mar20-Mar21-Mar22-Mar23-Mar24-Mar25-Mar26-Mar27-Mar28-Mar29-Mar30-Mar31-Mar1-Apr2-Apr3-Apr4-Apr5-Apr6-Apr7-Apr8-Apr9-Apr10-Apr
4/1001111223333478913171927374048597996122137154170187207224243263277292300311322330345354367389400411434458481493494
4/11011123344445891014182129384250618198124139157173192212230254273291308316329345353367380395411419423436462487514522524

一般网站公布的,每天新增确诊人数加在最后数据中,可能不能完全反应真实情况,就像左使指出的,美国每天增加这3万病例,不可能昨天都是阴性的。但是按照定义加在最后一天,也算合理。而Public Health的这种epidemiological curve一样有很多弊病,因为确诊的日期是比明确的,而earliest of onset date, test and reported date是很模糊的概念,一个病人是很难确切知道他是何时被何人感染的,发病,就诊,测试时间可能都不同,所以几乎是随心所欲地加在任何一天,又有什么意义呢?

1586655917319.png


1586655937874.png


1586655956251.png
 
谢谢你的详细回复.

我明白Public Health公布数据的方法epidemiological curve与多数网站不同,by EARLIEST of onset date, test and reported date, 我的主要目的是想了解与我们密切相关的渥太华新冠病人的确诊情况,因为我们个人基本不具备核查数据真伪很准确性的条件,我们只能选择相信官方的数据。因为渥太华其他网站公布的数据虽然输出方式与Public Health不同,但是只是不去修正以前的数据,最新发布的数据总数完全相同的,实际是采用Public Health发布的最新数据更新最后一天的数据。我认为这两种方法各有优缺点,Public Health的方法追溯源头,同事也带来很多不便的后果。

使用不方便,因为大多数网站发布数据方法不同,带来不习惯。

Public Health 每天公布的数据绝不是仅仅修改右十几天的侧灰色区域,而是几乎会修改至少40- 50天的数据。

以今天和昨天的数据为例,数据变动从2月23日开始,将近50天以前。这样每天修正数据意义何在?只为了把新增这几十个病例,均匀地分布到50天以前?调整成比较光滑的曲线?

19-Feb20-Feb21-Feb22-Feb23-Feb24-Feb25-Feb26-Feb27-Feb28-Feb29-Feb1-Mar2-Mar3-Mar4-Mar5-Mar6-Mar7-Mar8-Mar9-Mar10-Mar11-Mar12-Mar13-Mar14-Mar15-Mar16-Mar17-Mar18-Mar19-Mar20-Mar21-Mar22-Mar23-Mar24-Mar25-Mar26-Mar27-Mar28-Mar29-Mar30-Mar31-Mar1-Apr2-Apr3-Apr4-Apr5-Apr6-Apr7-Apr8-Apr9-Apr10-Apr
4/1001111223333478913171927374048597996122137154170187207224243263277292300311322330345354367389400411434458481493494
4/11011123344445891014182129384250618198124139157173192212230254273291308316329345353367380395411419423436462487514522524

一般网站公布的,每天新增确诊人数加在最后数据中,可能不能完全反应真实情况,就像左使指出的,美国每天增加这3万病例,不可能昨天都是阴性的。但是按照定义加在最后一天,也算合理。而Public Health的这种epidemiological curve一样有很多弊病,因为确诊的日期是比明确的,而earliest of onset date, test and reported date是很模糊的概念,一个病人是很难确切知道他是何时被何人感染的,发病,就诊,测试时间可能都不同,所以几乎是随心所欲地加在任何一天,又有什么意义呢?

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是的,OPH的epidemiological curve数据使用不方便,对于我们来说,类似于CTV的通常每天确诊病例的数据曲线更直观,不会有变动,但是epidemiological curve对pandemic outbreak的研究更准确一些。无论如何,两种方法累计确诊总数是完全一样的。也不能说OPH修改epidemiological curve数据,这就是这个方法的特点:不确定EARLIEST of onset date, test and reported date的时候,暂时以确诊日期记录下来,一旦确定了EARLIEST of onset date, test and reported date,如果跟原来记录下来的日期不同的话,就把原来记录下来的日期用EARLIEST of onset date, test and reported date来替代。onset date是有可能不准确,但是不会差太多,病人对自己那天开始生病(出现症状)还是比较清楚的,也许有1,2天的误差。我们生病去看家庭医生,也会被问病是什么时候开始的。
 
简单的办法,感染者中80%轻症,20%重症其中5%危重,这样从住院ICU数可以大致反推出感染的数量
也只好如此了。
安省数据不大可信。一直以来测试标准要求太高。即使得了病也测不了。现在好像测试标准有所宽松,希望会有帮助
 
渥太华新增37例,总数561.

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