美国数据:对delta变种,辉瑞屁用没有,M76% 有效

寻找尼莫

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大名鼎鼎的梅奥诊所出数据了,P 42%, M 76%。我承认‘屁用没有’是我加的,低于50%就是无效的疫苗,也许对防止重症有效。


AUGUST 9, 20214:41 PMUPDATED 3 DAYS AGO

COVID SCIENCE-Moderna may be superior to Pfizer against Delta; breakthrough odds rise with time​

By Reuters Staff
5 MIN READ

Aug 9 (Reuters) - The following is a roundup of some of the latest scientific studies on the novel coronavirus and efforts to find treatments and vaccines for COVID-19.
Moderna’s vaccine may be best against Delta
The mRNA vaccine from Pfizer and BioNTech may be less effective than Moderna's against the Delta variant of the coronavirus, according to two reports posted on medRxiv on Sunday ahead of peer review. In a study of more than 50,000 patients in the Mayo Clinic Health System bit.ly/37Btmhf, researchers found the effectiveness of Moderna's vaccine against infection had dropped to 76% in July - when the Delta variant was predominant - from 86% in early 2021. Over the same period, the effectiveness of the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine had fallen to 42% from 76%, researchers said. While both vaccines remain effective at preventing COVID hospitalization, a Moderna booster shot may be necessary soon for anyone who got the Pfizer or Moderna vaccines earlier this year, said Dr. Venky Soundararajan of Massachusetts data analytics company nference, who led the Mayo study.

In a separate study, elderly nursing home residents in Ontario bit.ly/3sb9pHJ produced stronger immune responses - especially to worrisome variants - after the Moderna vaccine than after the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine. The elderly may need higher vaccine doses, boosters, and other preventative measures, said Anne-Claude Gingras of the Lunenfeld-Tanenbaum Research Institute in Toronto, who led the Canadian study. When asked to comment on both research reports, a Pfizer spokesperson said, "We continue to believe... a third dose booster may be needed within 6 to 12 months after full vaccination to maintain the highest levels of protection."
Breakthrough COVID-19 more likely months after vaccination
People who received their second dose of the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine five or more months ago are more likely to test positive for COVID-19 than people who were fully vaccinated less than five months ago, new data suggest. Researchers studied nearly 34,000 fully vaccinated adults in Israel bit.ly/3Cucp6O who were tested to see if they had a breakthrough case of COVID-19. Overall, 1.8% tested positive. At all ages, the odds of testing positive were higher when the last vaccine dose was received at least 146 days earlier, the research team reported Thursday on medRxiv ahead of peer review. Among patients older than 60, the odds of a positive test were almost three times higher when at least 146 days had passed since the second dose. Most of the new infections were observed recently, said coauthor Dr. Eugene Merzon of Leumit Health Services in Israel. "Very few patients had required hospitalization, and it is too early to assess the severity of these new infections in terms of hospital admission, need for mechanical ventilation or mortality," he added. "We are planning to continue our research."

Ovarian egg sacs not harmed by COVID-19 antibodies
The sacs in the ovaries where eggs are stored are not harmed by COVID-19 antibodies, whether those antibodies are the result of infection or vaccination, a small study bit.ly/3jFVCoQ suggests. Israeli researchers analyzed fluid from ovarian sacs, or follicles, from 32 women who were having their eggs retrieved to be fertilized by sperm in a test tube. Fourteen women had not been vaccinated against the coronavirus nor infected with it. The others had either recovered from COVID-19 or received the Pfizer/BioNTech mRNA vaccine, and in these two groups the researchers saw antibodies against the virus in follicle fluid. There was no difference among the groups in the follicles' ability to make female sex hormones, nourish and nuture the egg so it will form a good quality embryo, and release the egg during ovulation. There was also no difference in "the rate of good quality embryos" from the eggs retrieved from each patient," said Dr. Yaakov Bentov of Hadassah-Hebrew University Medical Center in Jerusalem, who coauthored a report published on Saturday in Human Reproduction.
Click for a Reuters graphic tmsnrt.rs/3c7R3Bl on vaccines in development. (Reporting by Nancy Lapid; Editing by Tiffany Wu)
 

阿土仔

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美国打了上亿了,50000样本太少了,不足以说明问题。如果没用,CDC应鼓励混打,第三针打moderna 或者重新关起来,总之政府要有所应对。
 

livingeverywhere

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在没有特别有效的疫苗生产出来以前,你的选择是

1 打疫苗 2 不打,等被染上或者更好的疫苗出来。

打疫苗的选择中,可选项是:1. 中国灭活 2 辉瑞 3 莫多纳 4 AZ
 

billwanhua

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take with a grain of salt.

是不是辉瑞先打,时间更久?辉瑞副作用小,老年人打的更多?
前不久大家还欢呼以色列数据
 

贵圈

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圈儿哥一路走过来,每一步是正确的选择。算有点发言权了。

mRNA疫苗无用论,基本都是扯淡.

这辉瑞,摩德纳
两个都有用。前者照顾original病毒,照顾老弱病,比较谨慎,所以剂量比较低。维持时间短。
后者剂量足,技术全面,所以效果更劲爆。对delta依然有用。维持时间也长。但是效果也有所下降。

这么说吧,只要是疫苗,delta面前都会效率下降。如果那个疫苗说,我对D病毒还是90%以上,参见二向箔。

解决起来,不难。补针就完了。抗体浓度重新提高。当然了补针是很有讲究的,副作用可能更大。小心。

所以,疫苗是必须打的
 

贵圈

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圈儿哥一路走过来,每一步是正确的选择。算有点发言权了。

疫苗就算有用,但是世上事情都是复杂的。
现在看,变异,人自身的各种情况,国家疫苗能力参差不齐,这些因素复杂化的全球防疫之下。只有疫苗,哪怕是再好的,也无力干掉新冠。

1. 这个时候必须脑子清楚,重新将视角集中到药物身上。

2. 药物有两种

广谱抗病毒
特效新冠药

3. 这两种药的来源
要么是研发。
要么是repurpose,老药新用。

4. 研发困难很大。到目前为止,还没有任何一款新研发的药物能够经受三期临床的考研,效果超过疫苗,同时副作用不大。但是,我相信,最终会有一款成功的。其中抗体药物,很特别。可以对付感染病例中的中轻症,但是目前成本比较高。对变异的效果也难说。

5. 老药新用则很容易。

医生团体,比较喜欢这种办法,因为安全,可以从未感染,或感染初期施行,便宜,现成,可以大量地实践。并取得了大量的成功。虽然被压制但是依然大量地成功。

但是受到了药厂,生物学圈子,政治实力的强力阻击。非常不道德的阻击。没办法他们占据发言权了。

老药的特点也是需要适当的施用。剂量,辅剂,施用点。。。对医生要求很高。

老药容易发生滥用,一旦滥用,很可能跟疫苗滥用一样,催生变异的超强病毒。

6. 我估计最终,事实胜于雄辩,人类的出路很可能是这样的

mRNA疫苗维持大多数人群的基本免疫能力
部分人群,特殊情况疫苗效果不好,则需要通过药物,比如HCQ/IVM进行辅助免疫
对于变异病毒,疫苗必须纳鞋底子。

对于大众感染患者,最终,很可能批准使用HCQ/IVM的。他们会从老药上受益良多。高端病人,会推广昂贵的抗体疗法。
一旦政府被迫承认老药的作用,下一步就是老药将被研究作为辅助的免疫手段。这样

免疫防线就成了疫苗和老药联合对付变异。最终可能达成群体免疫。而不用付出印度的第二波的代价。
 

longshan

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大名鼎鼎的梅奥诊所出数据了,P 42%, M 76%。我承认‘屁用没有’是我加的,低于50%就是无效的疫苗,也许对防止重症有效。


AUGUST 9, 20214:41 PMUPDATED 3 DAYS AGO

COVID SCIENCE-Moderna may be superior to Pfizer against Delta; breakthrough odds rise with time​

By Reuters Staff
5 MIN READ

Aug 9 (Reuters) - The following is a roundup of some of the latest scientific studies on the novel coronavirus and efforts to find treatments and vaccines for COVID-19.
Moderna’s vaccine may be best against Delta
The mRNA vaccine from Pfizer and BioNTech may be less effective than Moderna's against the Delta variant of the coronavirus, according to two reports posted on medRxiv on Sunday ahead of peer review. In a study of more than 50,000 patients in the Mayo Clinic Health System bit.ly/37Btmhf, researchers found the effectiveness of Moderna's vaccine against infection had dropped to 76% in July - when the Delta variant was predominant - from 86% in early 2021. Over the same period, the effectiveness of the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine had fallen to 42% from 76%, researchers said. While both vaccines remain effective at preventing COVID hospitalization, a Moderna booster shot may be necessary soon for anyone who got the Pfizer or Moderna vaccines earlier this year, said Dr. Venky Soundararajan of Massachusetts data analytics company nference, who led the Mayo study.

In a separate study, elderly nursing home residents in Ontario bit.ly/3sb9pHJ produced stronger immune responses - especially to worrisome variants - after the Moderna vaccine than after the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine. The elderly may need higher vaccine doses, boosters, and other preventative measures, said Anne-Claude Gingras of the Lunenfeld-Tanenbaum Research Institute in Toronto, who led the Canadian study. When asked to comment on both research reports, a Pfizer spokesperson said, "We continue to believe... a third dose booster may be needed within 6 to 12 months after full vaccination to maintain the highest levels of protection."
Breakthrough COVID-19 more likely months after vaccination
People who received their second dose of the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine five or more months ago are more likely to test positive for COVID-19 than people who were fully vaccinated less than five months ago, new data suggest. Researchers studied nearly 34,000 fully vaccinated adults in Israel bit.ly/3Cucp6O who were tested to see if they had a breakthrough case of COVID-19. Overall, 1.8% tested positive. At all ages, the odds of testing positive were higher when the last vaccine dose was received at least 146 days earlier, the research team reported Thursday on medRxiv ahead of peer review. Among patients older than 60, the odds of a positive test were almost three times higher when at least 146 days had passed since the second dose. Most of the new infections were observed recently, said coauthor Dr. Eugene Merzon of Leumit Health Services in Israel. "Very few patients had required hospitalization, and it is too early to assess the severity of these new infections in terms of hospital admission, need for mechanical ventilation or mortality," he added. "We are planning to continue our research."

Ovarian egg sacs not harmed by COVID-19 antibodies
The sacs in the ovaries where eggs are stored are not harmed by COVID-19 antibodies, whether those antibodies are the result of infection or vaccination, a small study bit.ly/3jFVCoQ suggests. Israeli researchers analyzed fluid from ovarian sacs, or follicles, from 32 women who were having their eggs retrieved to be fertilized by sperm in a test tube. Fourteen women had not been vaccinated against the coronavirus nor infected with it. The others had either recovered from COVID-19 or received the Pfizer/BioNTech mRNA vaccine, and in these two groups the researchers saw antibodies against the virus in follicle fluid. There was no difference among the groups in the follicles' ability to make female sex hormones, nourish and nuture the egg so it will form a good quality embryo, and release the egg during ovulation. There was also no difference in "the rate of good quality embryos" from the eggs retrieved from each patient," said Dr. Yaakov Bentov of Hadassah-Hebrew University Medical Center in Jerusalem, who coauthored a report published on Saturday in Human Reproduction.
Click for a Reuters graphic tmsnrt.rs/3c7R3Bl on vaccines in development. (Reporting by Nancy Lapid; Editing by Tiffany Wu)
灭活可能更差。
 

寻找尼莫

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美国打了上亿了,50000样本太少了,不足以说明问题。如果没用,CDC应鼓励混打,第三针打moderna 或者重新关起来,总之政府要有所应对。
以色列卫生部报告的是39%,美国是42%,好像差不离,当然你也可以选择相信大英帝国的数据,88%。
 

ottawa_tj

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美国昨天死亡700多。
防重症防死亡行不行啊

99%的死亡都是没打疫苗的……

佛罗里达已经要求联邦政府提供更多的呼吸机了。。。

南方有的州医护人员已经不够用的了,需要联邦政府支援。
 

阿土仔

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以色列卫生部报告的是39%,美国是42%,好像差不离,当然你也可以选择相信大英帝国的数据,88%。
以色列打了差不多半年了,是不是由于疫苗效力会随时间衰减?疫苗干脆不管用与效力随时间衰减是两个概念,这个应该搞清楚,这是决定是否打三针的关键。
 

这都不是事儿

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以色列打了差不多半年了,是不是由于疫苗效力会随时间衰减?疫苗干脆不管用与效力随时间衰减是两个概念,这个应该搞清楚,这是决定是否打三针的关键。


我们以前打的其它疫苗都管一辈子,不是这样几个月打一针保持滴度的。
 
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