Keep your Promise ? No More Taxes!

[lifeisfun]

最初由 visitor 发布
上次省选时，自由党曾保证不加税，当时有人指出，自由党如果不加税，根本不可能实现给选民描绘的"共产主义"，可是当时自由党就是不回答这个问题。

无业游民，James，northenwolf，wwt，xwu016，kool等同志，也说两句!

There are few politician can keep their promise, from Chretien, to
this Ontario premier. Maybe we should introduce such mechanism like in Califonia, which is that people can have referundum to throw out those politicians who don't keep their promises.

 

[oread]

That's what this whole petition is about! We can't let the politicians run our lives. If they are going to increase my tax, I want to know exactly what's being increased and I want to get some sort of tax relief somewhere.

It's absurd to increase our taxes year after year because the governments "happen" to incur more expenses! If we let them continue outrageous spending, at some point, we would no longer be willing to work, because our income wouldn't even pay for the taxes! I support social programs whole-heartedly, but not endless outrageous spendings. A referendum would knock some sense into those arrogant politicians.

Not all politicians break their campaign promises, the Harris government kept them all, not that I support the Tories or anything.

 

[firefly]

Higher taxes will defer growth. That's why jobs will go to China and India because taxes are lower.

Chinese, Indian governments cares more about growth. More growth, more money for corruption.

Canadian, European governments just rob mid-classes and give to low-income. More taxes, more money spending(nicer word for corruption) for themselves.

I'd like Chinese/Indian government better. In that condition, at least I have a job.

 

[无业游民]

最初由 visitor 发布
上次省选时，自由党曾保证不加税，当时有人指出，自由党如果不加税，根本不可能实现给选民描绘的"共产主义"，可是当时自由党就是不回答这个问题。

无业游民，James，northenwolf，wwt，xwu016，kool等同志，也说两句!

嗯，嗯。胡说两句。

俺认为，他加税也许没有办法，谁都不喜欢违背承诺。任何政府在施政的过程中都会牵涉到很复杂的利益关系，不管他们在可能的范围内做的多好都会给人骂。如果答应了不加税的请求，也许就违背了理性人经济学原理导致许多政府服务无法继续下去（瞎猜）

而如果当初他不做承诺，也许就不如对手有竞争力，这样上台的机会就减小了，所以他只好先承诺了再说，也就是撒谎。老百姓都记性不好，下一次竞选还会有一个骗子上台，说不定就是他的对手保守党。

俺对自由党在sars的时候去唐人街吃饭很感谢。尽管俺知道是政客装样子，俺也感谢他装。政策上俺倾向保守党，俺对麦克.哈理斯印象很好。不管那个党的政客上台都会被人骂，俺还是感谢他们为人民服务。俺很天真地认为他们虽然撒谎但是很有抱负。

对于渐渐俺也很欣赏。很有参与意识，这就是民主。

 

[oread]

There is a law in Ontario saying that the government CANNOT increase taxes unless there is a referendum. Now the lying McGinty is saying that they are going to just scrap that law!

 

[lifeisfun]

最初由 渐渐 发布
There is a law in Ontario saying that the government CANNOT increase taxes unless there is a referendum. Now the lying McGinty is saying that they are going to just scrap that law!

Don't be so angry. I don't want to see tax increased either. But if I can choose to have a short waiting list and fast treatment, I would like to trade with my tax. It's like the two-tier health system, but the difference is we all have to pay premium, not just the rich people. As for if the government is liar or not, or whether they have to go for a referundum or not, it's detail and maybe they should be blamed for tha. But the problem is there, either you have to fix the health system, or inject more money. It's as simple as that.

I stayed in BC before when I was a student. I don't mind paying for the premium or any othe type of user fee. What I hated is to wait for 4 months to see a specialist, or wait for 2 hours to see even my family doctor. When I moved to Ontario, I heard that even the foreign students don't have to pay health premium, what a nice social program, but rememeber there is no free lunch in this world, the money has to come from somewhere, either you pay for that, or others have to pay for that, or your grandchilden have to pay for that.
If not, then there are consequences, one is that you have to wait for years to get treatment, or you setup two tier system. I personally prefer the 2nd choice, as at least I have a choice. I feel that if you don't want to spend money to get treatment in time, you could die of your sickness, and then everything is over.

 

[oread]

The fact is: an average person is already paying about 48% of his/her income in taxes. How much more is enough? Now that I'm paying even more for health care, does that mean I will be getting better services? Get real! It's just another way to get our money out into the government hands so that they can use it to buy $3000 bottle of Chateau Petrus on their salmon fishing trip in the north!

If you are just as fed up as I am, sign that petition. It's the only way to fight back this outrageous act of deceiving.

 

[fuzzy]

最初由 lifeisfun 发布


Don't be so angry. I don't want to see tax increased either. But if I can choose to have a short waiting list and fast treatment, I would like to trade with my tax. It's like the two-tier health system, but the difference is we all have to pay premium, not just the rich people. As for if the government is liar or not, or whether they have to go for a referundum or not, it's detail and maybe they should be blamed for tha. But the problem is there, either you have to fix the health system, or inject more money. It's as simple as that.

I stayed in BC before when I was a student. I don't mind paying for the premium or any othe type of user fee. What I hated is to wait for 4 months to see a specialist, or wait for 2 hours to see even my family doctor. When I moved to Ontario, I heard that even the foreign students don't have to pay health premium, what a nice social program, but rememeber there is no free lunch in this world, the money has to come from somewhere, either you pay for that, or others have to pay for that, or your grandchilden have to pay for that.
If not, then there are consequences, one is that you have to wait for years to get treatment, or you setup two tier system. I personally prefer the 2nd choice, as at least I have a choice. I feel that if you don't want to spend money to get treatment in time, you could die of your sickness, and then everything is over.

Paying premium does not mean you will get better service. Period!

 

[LostRabbit]

最初由 渐渐 发布
The fact is: an average person is already paying about 48% of his/her income in taxes. How much more is enough? Now that I'm paying even more for health care, does that mean I will be getting better services? Get real! It's just another way to get our money out into the government hands so that they can use it to buy $3000 bottle of Chateau Petrus on their salmon fishing trip in the north!

If you are just as fed up as I am, sign that petition. It's the only way to fight back this outrageous act of deceiving.

48%??????

 

[oread]

Yeah I've heard that from Steve Madeley on the Lowell Green show a couple of days ago.

******************************************
How the new budget will affect you:

Couple with two children and income of $60,000:

Health premium: $600

Increase in provincial taxes: 26%

Increase in total income taxes: 6.9%

Total Ontario and federal income taxes: $9,300

Couple with two children and income of $50,000:

Health premium: $600

Increase in provincial taxes: 24%

Increase in total income taxes: 7%

Total Ontario and federal income taxes: $9,200

Couple with two children, with one earner and family income of $100,000:

Health premium: $750

Increase in provincial taxes: 7.9%

Increase in total income taxes: 2.7 %

Total Ontario and federal income taxes: $28,595

Couple with two children, two earners and family

income of $100,000:

Health premium: $1,050

Increase in provincial taxes: 18%

Increase in total income taxes: 5.2%

Total Ontario and federal income taxes: $21,250

Single person with income of $100,000:

Health premium: $750

Increase in provincial taxes: 7.4%

Increase in total income taxes: 2.5%

Total Ontario and federal income taxes: $30,325

More here

 

[oread]

They even tax the poorest segment of the population! Not the Conservatives or even the Neo-Conservatives dare to do the same.

 

[阿搜]

所以我退党了。

现在回到共青团员的身份，虽然很久没有交团费了。
但是听说现在国内团派当政。

 

[terry]

Just found out the health premium will be deducted from Income TAX.So there is no way for people to avoid it or let others to pay.

Canada is on the way to the 共产主义, China is on the way back to 资本主义。

共产主义的理想在中国没有实现，却在加拿大实现了，哈哈。

====================================================================
How the new health tax ― er, premium ― will work


JAMES DAW

The new Ontario health premium is one strange tax, er, premium.

It will sure feel like a tax when it's added to our payroll tax deductions starting July 1.

Like income taxes, premiums will only apply to taxable income, after deductions for retirement savings, union dues, and child-care expenses. Those with low incomes will pay nothing, others will pay from a few dollars to $900 a year.

Premiums will rise with taxable income, at 6 cents per dollar above $20,000. Someone at $25,000 will pay $300 a year.

At higher incomes, the total premium will jump up in $150 increments to $450 at $36,600, $600 at $48,600, $750 at $72,600 and $900 at $200,600.

So that's somewhat like the progressive income tax brackets, which jump to a higher level of tax at certain thresholds. Between those thresholds, though, the premium will be regressive. It will shrink as a percentage of income the more the taxpayer makes.

There is one good thing about a regressive tax. Once you're paying the premium for a certain band of income, you will not be discouraged from working longer and harder to earn more.

The exception will be in a $600 band of income near the thresholds, when the additional premium will be like a flat 25 per cent tax.

Take someone who makes $36,000 a year. If he or she works overtime to earn $600 extra, $150 will go to the premium. After paying income taxes, Canada Pension Plan and Employment Insurance premiums, the taxpayer will be a minority participant in the extra income.

Someone right at the threshold will keep less than half of a $600 raise. Heather O'Hagan of KPMG calculates the marginal tax rate and premium rate would be 64 per cent at $36,000, 56.1 per cent at $48,000 and 68.4 per cent at $72,000.

Donald Drummond, chief economist for the Toronto Dominion Bank, said there may be some situations where a person would lose almost the entire $600 raise. The person could also see a reduction in the Canada Child Tax Benefit, the goods and services tax credit and provincial tax credits for low-income earners.

"It's bizarre," argues Drummond.

"You would be forced into tax planning. There is no way that anyone is going to report (taxable income) between $36,000 and $36,600."

Taxpayers could defer taxes and avoid the extra premium on $600 of income by making a contribution to a registered retirement savings plan. Some, Drummond suspects, will merely avoid reporting some income.

He said the government would have avoided the perverse marginal tax rates by applying a surtax, as is done at higher incomes.

Apart from these troubling points, Ontario will not hit low-income earners as hard with health premiums as Alberta and British Columbia.

Provincial revenue officials say more than half the $2.4 billion in annual health premiums will be borne by taxpayers with a taxable income of more than $50,000. More low-income earners will avoid the premium here than in other provinces.

In Alberta, a single earner pays $528 in premium once as his or her taxable income reaches $15,970. In British Columbia, the maximum of $648 per single taxpayer starts at $24,001.

So an individual taxpayer in Ontario will not pay more than in Alberta unless his or her taxable income is more than about $48,300, and not more than in British Columbia unless income exceeds $72,000.

Spouses who each report $25,000 of annual taxable income would pay a total of $600 in premium, compared with $1,056 in Alberta and $1,152 in British Columbia.

In addition to the health premium, high-income earners are hit by a surtax that was originally called the Fair Share Health Care Levy.

The name disappeared in 2000, but the surtax remains. It's 20 per cent of provincial taxes on employment income between $60,774 and $71,044, and 56 per cent of provincial taxes beyond that.

 

[Wangwang]

Strongly support you !!!

最初由 渐渐 发布
The fact is: an average person is already paying about 48% of his/her income in taxes. How much more is enough? Now that I'm paying even more for health care, does that mean I will be getting better services? Get real! It's just another way to get our money out into the government hands so that they can use it to buy $3000 bottle of Chateau Petrus on their salmon fishing trip in the north!

If you are just as fed up as I am, sign that petition. It's the only way to fight back this outrageous act of deceiving.

Let me know if you need signature for petition, I will sign.

 

[oread]

First post has a link to the petition organized by the Canadian Taxpayers Federation. You can also make a donation to the CTF in support of a class-action suit against the McGinty government for breaking the Ontario's Taxpayers Protection Act.

Here is the link again:
http://www.taxpayer.com/ON_Honour_the_pledge.htm