请支持"夫母移民加快速度"请愿, 签名递交众议院, 如果你爱你父母的话(ZT)

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 向MPs发信申诉有关“父母团聚申请的时间太太长“的建议太好了(ZT)

最初由 渐渐 发布
support: the rule of any sale is this: "What's in it for me?"

What in it for you and me is clear: if Canada didn't slow or stop this, then the following will happen:

1. You will pay 25% sales tax instead of 15%.
2. Your wait for surgery will be 4 months instead of 2.
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 向MPs发信申诉有关“父母团聚申请的时间太太长“的建议太好了(ZT)

I would argue your 2nd point: you could say the same to a lot of Canadians on welfare as well.

As a tax-paying citizen, I have no problem giving my tax dollars to sponsor those in need, and I believe that many actually share my thought on this.

It's funny that Lowell Green was asking this morning: "What is the Canadian dream?" Everyone knows what the American dream is: getting rich with your own hands, but no one really knows what the Canadian dream is, if there is such thing. Well my take on that question is: equality, cultural diversity and freedom.


最初由 Xiaomimi 发布


True. Agree with you. So the petition letter should include two parts:

1. Ask the Canadian government to speed up the process. (rightly so).
2. The sponsoring children should promised and be demanded to pay their parent's medicare while they were in Canada, until they passed away.

Without the second part, let in older people who have never payed a single cent of Canadian tax, is nothing but a robbery of the Canadian taxpayer.
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 向MPs发信申诉有关“父母团聚申请的时间太太长“的建议太好了(ZT)

1. An absolute number doesn't mean anything, it's the level of service we get compared with the cost of that service that reflects the true measure of quality of life.

2. I seem to remember where you stand on the health care issue: no privitization in any form. However immigration isn't the cause of longer waiting time in health care, the system is. Without some degree of privitization, the user fee for example, the health care system as we have today is simly unsustainable period, particularly with an aging population.

最初由 Xiaomimi 发布


What in it for you and me is clear: if Canada didn't slow or stop this, then the following will happen:

1. You will pay 25% sales tax instead of 15%.
2. Your wait for surgery will be 4 months instead of 2.
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 向MPs发信申诉有关“父母团聚申请的时间太太长“的建议太好了(ZT)

最初由 渐渐 发布
I would argue your 2nd point: you could say the same to a lot of Canadians on welfare as well.

You have to accept a concept called "birth right" or "citizenship right". For those who just happen to be born in Canada or who have already acquired citizenship or landed status, they have the right to Canadian Medicare, whether they contribute or not.

But it doesn't mean that this benefit shall be extended to other foreigner. Having an adult child who payed Canadian tax doesn't make a difference here.
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 向MPs发信申诉有关“父母团聚申请的时间太太长“的建议太好了(ZT)

最初由 渐渐 发布

2. I seem to remember where you stand on the health care issue: no privitization in any form. However immigration isn't the cause of longer waiting time in health care, the system is. Without some degree of privitization, the user fee for example, the health care system as we have today is simly unsustainable period, particularly with an aging population.

You remembered my conclusion but not the reason, it goes like this:

1. Privatization demands profit, which is an extra cost to patient.

2. Private insurance company are there to make money, so they WILL pick patient. Even in the US, people over 65 are covered by the federal governemnt. NO insurance company in their right mind will take them, or those younger but had a serious pre-condition.

3. People in a private system wait longer to get treatment, not shorter. Why ? See in a no-fee system, you got sick, you go see a doctor, and you wait for 1 months to get treat. But in a user pay system, you get sick, you WILL volountarily wait for 2 month to seek medical attention. Believe it or not, even in US, many people decline to see doctors just to save $20 co-pay.

4. Have you heard of a medical problem called "over-treatment" ? It happened a lots in for profit system.
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 向MPs发信申诉有关“父母团聚申请的时间太太长“的建议太好了(ZT

You said "2. The sponsoring children should promised and be demanded to pay their parent's medicare while they were in Canada, until they passed away."

Now I'm really puzzled: the topic of dicussion is to accelerate the process to grant landed immigrant status for sponsored parents, 父母移民加快速. Once the parents come to Canada, they become landed immigrants, so are you saying now that they should actually have the right to benefit mediare? :confused:


最初由 Xiaomimi 发布


You have to accept a concept called "birth right" or "citizenship right". For those who just happen to be born in Canada or who have already acquired citizenship or landed status, they have the right to Canadian Medicare, whether they contribute or not.

But it doesn't mean that this benefit shall be extended to other foreigner. Having an adult child who payed Canadian tax doesn't make a difference here.
 
给他们办移民之前先和他们商量商量,实话实说,孤单,寂寞。。。别尽拣好听的说。他们来了给你看孩子,省税,省医疗费,做饭。。你快活了,老人后悔了。
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 向MPs发信申诉有关“父母团聚申请的时间太太长“的建议太好了(ZT)

1. Private organizations are in general more efficient, and efficiency saves money.

2. I don't think understand your inclusion of private insurance to the health system. Aren't insurance companies private as we speak now?

3. At least those people in US have a CHOICE to either wait or get treatment immediately, but WE DON"T.

4. This is true, but perhaps a parallel private system in addition to the existing universal health care would be the answer.

All I'm saying is: universal health care is not sustainable, whether people like it or not. The problem of long wait would only get worse: we simply can't afford it anymore. So let's be open, let's examine how other countries run their health care, and perhaps incorporate their best practice into ours.


最初由 Xiaomimi 发布


You remembered my conclusion but not the reason, it goes like this:

1. Privatization demands profit, which is an extra cost to patient.

2. Private insurance company are there to make money, so they WILL pick patient. Even in the US, people over 65 are covered by the federal governemnt. NO insurance company in their right mind will take them, or those younger but had a serious pre-condition.

3. People in a private system wait longer to get treatment, not shorter. Why ? See in a no-fee system, you got sick, you go see a doctor, and you wait for 1 months to get treat. But in a user pay system, you get sick, you WILL volountarily wait for 2 month to seek medical attention. Believe it or not, even in US, many people decline to see doctors just to save $20 co-pay.

4. Have you heard of a medical problem called "over-treatment" ? It happened a lots in for profit system.
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 向MPs发信申诉有关“父母团聚申请的时间太太长“的建议太好了(ZT

1. Private system will only be more efficient if the product is price-sensative. Medicare is not. Too much efficient may not be good here. (think about needle reuse in China).

2. If insurance is not priavte, what else is private ? You mean pay totally out of your own pocket like in China ?

3. Trust me, even a $20 user fee will affect people's choice. Overtime, this voluntarily delay will result in shorter life span.

最初由 渐渐 发布
1. Private organizations are in general more efficient, and efficiency saves money.

2. I don't think understand your inclusion of private insurance to the health system. Aren't insurance companies private as we speak now?

3. At least those people in US have a CHOICE to either wait or get treatment immediately, but WE DON"T.

4. This is true, but perhaps a parallel private system in addition to the existing universal health care would be the answer.

All I'm saying is: universal health care is not sustainable, whether people like it or not. The problem of long wait would only get worse: we simply can't afford it anymore. So let's be open, let's examine how other countries run their health care, and perhaps incorporate their best practice into ours.


 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 向MPs发信申诉有关“父母团聚申请的时间太太长“的建议太好

最初由 渐渐 发布
You said "2. The sponsoring children should promised and be demanded to pay their parent's medicare while they were in Canada, until they passed away."

Now I'm really puzzled: the topic of dicussion is to accelerate the process to grant landed immigrant status for sponsored parents, 父母移民加快速. Once the parents come to Canada, they become landed immigrants, so are you saying now that they should actually have the right to benefit mediare? :confused:

True, once they got landed immigrant status, there is nothing you can do about it. So you have to stop it before they got it.
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 向MPs发信申诉有关“父母团聚申请的时间太太长“的建议

最初由 Xiaomimi 发布


True, once they got landed immigrant status, there is nothing you can do about it. So you have to stop it before they got it.

Even violate the human rights and constitution rights !!!!!!!!!!

Shame on you.
 
这贴可热了, 有望成"精" - 讨论的是加拿大现今最敏感的两个话题, Immigration and Medicare, 两个最让人伤心失望的加拿大现状.
 
Please ask yourselves if Canada does not have the social benefit system as it does (such as free medicare, elder citizen pension etc), will you still sponsor ur parents? I really doubt how many adult children will like to get their parents here. I do not mean that the children do not care for their parents, but can they afford to do so and also at the expense of themselves?
 
Immigration in dire need of overhaul(ZT)

Immigration in dire need of overhaul(ZT)
Jan. 22, 2005. 08:39 AM

Immigration in dire need of overhaul
Thousands remain stuck in frustrating backlog

Top officials insist major changes must be made


ALLAN THOMPSON
SPECIAL TO THE STAR

OTTAWA―Canada's immigration system works like a charm ― but it's also dysfunctional.

How's that for a consensus?

Former immigration minister Judy Sgro's problems have once again put the system on the public's radar screen. And even top officials, who insist the department doesn't entirely deserve its awful reputation, concede the time has come for Canadians to make some crucial decisions about what kind of immigration program we want.

"We have not yet faced these tough decisions," said one top official, who spoke on condition he not be identified. We will have to look seriously at proposals for radical change, he said.

In a nutshell, our current system just can't cope with the volume of applications from people who qualify under our rules to come here as independent immigrants or in the family class. And within Canada, more and more cases bounce out of an inflexible system and end up being dealt with by the immigration minister and MPs, creating concerns about political interference.

Sgro faced allegations of political interference before resigning as immigration minister last week after a pizza-store owner said in a court affidavit he was promised help to stay in Canada in exchange for working on and providing food for her Liberal re-election campaign. Sgro denied the allegations and said she was resigning so she could clear her name.

She also came under fire recently for helping a Romanian stripper get a temporary residence permit. The woman had also worked on Sgro's campaign.

Year after year, the immigration department succeeds in bringing in the 230,000 or so new immigrants the government wants. A majority of those cases are processed in months. The cases that take longer skew the average and capture the headlines. The department also processes nearly 1.3 million people a year granted temporary visitor, business or student visas. It put in place a permanent resident card program that was decades in the making and survived the wrenching bureaucratic changes forced by Prime Minister Paul Martin's decision to create the new Border Services Agency. Those things are considered a success.

The dysfunction is that the same system leaves hundreds of thousands in a frustrating backlog because we don't have the capacity to process their applications ― or can't take them in without blowing up the fine balance between immigrants chosen for their skills and those selected for their family ties.

"We're getting a very bad rap on image for some areas where the perception of poor service is because people are spending a long time in the queue," the senior official said.


Another official who has worked at high levels within the system for more than a decade put it more bluntly: "These backlogs are like a boxcar on a bungee cord, coming our way."

The government plans to bring in between 220,000 and 245,000 newcomers this year. For several years now, the department has imposed this rough ratio on its intake: 60 per cent economic immigrants chosen for their skills and 40 per cent who come in through the family class or as refugees. In reality, the family class usually accounts for about 25 per cent.

But in the skilled-worker and family-class categories, there are nearly three qualified applicants in the backlog for every one admitted. With more resources, or a policy shift, the department could speed processing of family-class applications from spouses, children, parents and grandparents.

However, time and again, Canadians have said they want a focus on independent immigrants who are chosen for their skills and who have demonstrated they integrate and contribute to the economy more quickly.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
`These backlogs are like a boxcar on a bungee cord coming our way.'

Federal immigration official

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


So do we expand the family class and speed up processing, or shrink it and get rid of the backlogs ― the way Australia has ― by telling parents and grandparents up front there is little chance they will succeed in gaining admission to Canada? There hasn't been a politician yet who wants to make that choice and live with the consequences.

But even top officials concede the only way to impose that family-class ratio is by using bureaucratic red tape to stall the family movement so that it can be capped at about 25 per cent of the total. As a result, the department arbitrarily put parents and grandparents in a secondary category behind spouses and children, in an effort to slow family-class immigration. So family-class applications continue to accumulate like water behind a dam ― and officials know this is a problem. Some say it is a legal dispute waiting to blow up.

"This is a contravention of the right to family reunification. This is a court case waiting to happen and the immigration department will lose it," one former official said.

Do we stick with a system that keeps applications in the queue indefinitely, creating enormous backlogs, or pursue a radical change in approach?

One proposal, given high-level consideration some years ago, then set aside as unworkable, would radically change the way Canada selects immigrants, particularly in the independent class. Right now, applications from independent and family-class immigrants stay in the backlog until they are either accepted or rejected, a process that can take from six months to a decade. What would happen if we only brought into the pipeline the applications that were likely to go forward within a short period of time?

"If we want to be perceived as serving people well, we should not be bringing a lot more into the pipeline than what we need to process," the senior official said. Most times, there are more than 500,000 qualified applicants for skilled-worker immigration in the pipeline when we only admit about 130,000 a year.

A new model would look like the one used by universities to accept students. Would-be immigrants would apply to be part of Canada's annual intake. The most qualified applicants would get a reply within months that they were on their way to a new life. Those who don't make the cut would be told to try again next year, if they so desired. Their file would be closed and removed from the system. There would be no backlog.

Another problem identified by many commentators is a move away from discretionary power. Changes in the law and regulations over the years have ironed out much of the ability of immigration officers and managers working in the field to use their discretion when making decisions.

That discretionary power now resides instead with the office of the immigration minister.

"We've tightened the rules around discretion and created a situation where people who have no recourse run to their MPs hysterically," said immigration lawyer Lorne Waldman. "The exercise of discretion is too much tied to political connections and it shouldn't be that way."

A decade ago, Waldman co-authored a major study on how discretion is used in the immigration system. His recommendations were shelved and the topic has not had serious study since.

"The way it stands now, MPs have become the front line for immigration officers. Politicians become the gatekeepers when instead what we need are professional public servants and more of them," another insider said.

"The minister and the minister's office essentially becomes the country's immigration officer, what used to be the work of hundreds and hundreds of officers and managers," the former official said.

And immigration officers in the field complain they spend all of their time poring over documents and reviewing files, rather than sitting down with a family to assess whether they would make a contribution to Canada.

All of these issues are on the table in a federal-provincial review of immigration policy launched several months ago by Sgro, a process that will now be taken up by her successor, Joe Volpe.

The senior immigration official said the mechanics of the system are just the plumbing: how to design a system that gets people here ― after we have figured out whom we want.

Before fixing the machinery, we have to figure out what we want it to accomplish, he said ― figure out the poetry, then work on the plumbing.
Additional articles by Allan Thompson

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/Co...id=970599119419
 
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