精华 改为“无题”比较好

最初由 农民工 发布


宗教自由,是指尊重别人的宗教信仰自由。而并不是说,每个人必须信仰所有的宗教。美国是一个民主国家,其主流是基督教,总统以基督教圣经宣誓理所当然。

美加的主流价值都是基督教价值,称为基督教国家并无不可。

这种角度来看待基都教, 是不是很功利?

美国是不是是神所喜悦的国家? 美国的价值观是不是代表了基督教的价值? 不是那么简单的可以根据其文明程度来定义. 比如说, 同性恋就不是神所喜悦的; 民主自由是不是神所喜悦的? 你去问问神.

在历史上每个阶段都有几个辉煌的文明, 比如当初的罗马文明, 菠斯文明,印度文明. 文明程度的高低, 和是否为神的价值也没有必然的关系.

大家对于神的信仰, 是不是主要是因为"入乡随俗" 也许还没有到了真正的信仰吧?
 
最初由 wushuren 发布


不好意思,我在约翰福音第三章17没有找到您那段。“凡有世上财务的。看见兄弟贫乏,却塞住怜恤的心,神的心怎能存在他里面尼?”能不能再次确认一下?

为此怎么办?不如告诉,真理,道路和生命的光就是耶稣,施加摩尼和老子都不曾称呼自己为神,他们是师长和前辈,他们的证言都指向一个同一。不可言传的同一。他就是上帝。

我们只能重复圣经中说的话,我们不能评判人,这也是圣经中告诉的。

因为我们没有权柄,我们还在路上,即使呼主的名传道和行异能也有可能不被主承认。

“凡灵不认耶稣,就不是出于神,这是敌基督者的灵“约翰福音第四章3

为此,犹太人也不认耶稣,那么犹太人也是敌基督?
我看还是把耶稣的定义扩大成真理道路和生命的光,才比较好。耶稣自己这么称呼自己的,而且是无处不在,我们这样做当然是遵照了耶稣的旨意。

他住在我们的心里,这只能是道路真理和生命的光。一个充分必要条件。难道这世界上还有哪个道路真理和生命的光,不是耶稣?谁敢这么说,很可能就是敌基督。

为此,爱因斯坦这个无神论者也将被包括进来,布鲁诺也将被包括进来。

为此,我们很可能解决掉这个世界上,大大小小的隐含的,和明面的宗教和教派冲突和战争,还有宗教迫害的理论基础。

还记得清教徒逃往美州的五月花号吗?

wushuren:
斤你一个咀址,方便查慢?。
?文??
http://www.nytec.org/newsite/main/search.asp

希望?大家有?助。
 
最初由 农民工 发布


西班牙人和基督徒是两个概念;
历史和现在也是两个概念;
基督徒也不是圣人;
在现在的基督教美国和加拿大,印地安人是有保留地的;
如能,请直接反驳我关于基督教国家是真正实现宗教自由,各种宗教和平共处的国家论点。
have u ever been to 印地安人保留地? I went to several of them. Some reservations are without running water and toilets. In one researvation, water is more expensive than oil; it has to be shipped in.
How many native americans were killed? if u have time, read a biography about president jackson, see how many indians died under his presidency.
Tibetans have a Tibet in China, how about native americans? they only have reservations.
 
lesson of the day

remembered from the poet Chaucer

A pious (meaning religous) farmer like the farmer on this board believed his god was angry and wanted to destroy mankin again on earth. Just like Noah, he built an ark, but much smaller. He raised it to the roof on the first floor and decided to sleep in it so that he could survive his god's anger.

he had a beautiful wife, who loved another guy in the village. So the wife and his lover enjoyed sex day in and day out on the upper floor. One night the lover had to piss but had to do it from the upper floor window, the sound of which woke up the farmer, who now knew the flood was coming. He cut loose the rope and you know the rest of the story
 
最初由 farmboy 发布


忍不住想说: 切! 你以为你是谁? 何出此狂言!

平心而论,有信仰是好事,可是信仰并不是只有一种.信神,信缘,信自己, 何尝不可? 如果因为有信仰, 却失去自己独立思考的能力, 而只会引用那一本书上的教条.如果有信仰,就觉得自己有了免死牌,从此做多少坏事,也会有万能的神来庇护,天堂之上一定有一席之地, 那这样的信仰, 不信也罢!

即使是耶蜂也不会愿意听到你这样的论断.

邋了!信了耶蜂不是有免死牌或有了保胝,死後可上天?,此後可做大小的?事也不怕天堂?有一席之地。
慢?真:人人都有一死,死後且有?判,是按照人生前的行?而?判的。
譬如真你?你的房子偕了保胝,然後放一把火把房子?掉,你看保胝公司会不会斤你衮?
 
最初由 under the sun 发布
" 龙行有雨 " 朋友:呃睫?有喳咒的意思,碉不咿把劫果告灾 大家而已,?然每?人都有接受或不接受的自由。
神是 "盼望" 每一个人相信他,但他睫不勉?人的!

*烟包上的警告字眼"吸?可以致癌" 你?不会真它是咒喳吧?

这样说,事情就好办多了。

有这么一种信仰,号称如果你信了一个神,任何一个,你就会在来世做猪做狗。

各位信徒,无论你信的是什么神,还“盼望”你快快放弃你的信仰,不然,来生倒霉!

这绝没有诅咒的意思,只是一个结果,就像香烟盒子上的警告字眼一般。

尽管在香烟盒子上的警告字眼背后,有无数的数据支持着,还有政府的法令支持着(不然它绝对不会被印在香烟盒上)。但来世做猪狗的警告,有信仰在支持,而信仰是高于科学的:D

你若是说那信仰是错的,你便是错的,因为别人的信仰,如你的信仰一般,是至高无上的。

你若是说你是对的,那上面的警告也是对的,因为别人的逻辑,不过是复制了你的推理。

这样一来,争论就又回到信仰上了。我认为上面讲的那种信仰让人讨厌,不知道有多少人持同样的看法?

玩笑归玩笑。我的理解,真正文明的信仰,如WU兄弟所说,应该是包容的。

顺便提一句,我记得烟盒上印着的,是“吸烟有害健康”。而这“下地狱”,在加拿大可不是什么好话,最好不要随便说。
 
最初由 wushuren 发布


我想上帝如此万能和无所不在,很可能是很好热闹的。否则的话,真得很没有道理。天主教出现的时候,同时代在中国是道家,而在印度是佛家的施加摩尼。当然这里面时间上可能稍微有些出入。

牛的奶煮牛的肉?能不能给个出处?

同流而不归一,才比较好玩和有趣,套用现在的名词,这叫做多元化。

不好意思,我这人学坏容易学好难。牛奶牛肉一说,早忘了是哪本劝人向善的书里面讲的。

另外,要是孔子见老子的说法是真的,那道家的出现,该在公元前五六百年。而阴阳之说,最晚在殷商就该有了。以我的陋见,咱们祖宗坏事就坏在老庄一脉,过于追求“御风而行”的哲思,多了几分写意,缺了几分繁琐--这是题外话。

佛家该更早些,它的背景是印度教。印度教里面,有数不清的神仙。以此传承,在佛门受供的,便也数不清了。听说只要心诚,管你是什么阿猫阿狗,随便跟了哪位菩萨,都能得正果。

也许是因了多神这层关系,佛教和道才显得稍稍宽容些吧?但它们到底是宗教,总还是相信有个终极归宿。

同流不归一,难。或者换句严谨些的话说,那是小概率事件。

因为所谓绝对真理,一定是排他的。而追求绝对真理的,大多相信“绝对路径”。像WU兄弟这般相信殊途同归的,怕是只有黄易大师了:D
 
最初由 龙行有雨 发布


不好意思,我这人学坏容易学好难。牛奶牛肉一说,早忘了是哪本劝人向善的书里面讲的。

另外,要是孔子见老子的说法是真的,那道家的出现,该在公元前五六百年。而阴阳之说,最晚在殷商就该有了。以我的陋见,咱们祖宗坏事就坏在老庄一脉,过于追求“御风而行”的哲思,多了几分写意,缺了几分繁琐--这是题外话。

佛家该更早些,它的背景是印度教。印度教里面,有数不清的神仙。以此传承,在佛门受供的,便也数不清了。听说只要心诚,管你是什么阿猫阿狗,随便跟了哪位菩萨,都能得正果。

也许是因了多神这层关系,佛教和道才显得稍稍宽容些吧?但它们到底是宗教,总还是相信有个终极归宿。

同流不归一,难。或者换句严谨些的话说,那是小概率事件。

因为所谓绝对真理,一定是排他的。而追求绝对真理的,大多相信“绝对路径”。像WU兄弟这般相信殊途同归的,怕是只有黄易大师了:D

犹太教好像和中国的阴阳才是同时代的,佛教可能也是那时候,这样才比较清晰些。牛奶煮牛肉,有以子之矛攻子之盾的味道。反正能自圆其说,就还说的过去。


天主和基督教里面也是有天使和圣人一说的,不单是上帝。

各教都隐含着的那个终极归宿就是希望所在,虽然名称不同。承认同流比强行归一要容易些。各宗教的有道高人不在于教内地位的高低,而在于心灵。

看过黄易的《星际浪子》,很好看的一部科幻小说。
 
最初由 wushuren 发布


承认同流比强行归一要容易些。

承认同流,便是从“我花开时百花杀”的崇高追求退后了一步。

退一步当然容易。可“退一步海阔天空”这话,在用来劝人的时候,效果总是不太理想。因为谁都有个所谓“底线”。对相信终极真理的,在终极真理这条线上,是容不得后退半步的。

看过黄易的《星际浪子》,很好看的一部科幻小说。

哈哈,这就对啦!还有那个《大唐双龙传》,也有些“归一”的味道:)。黄易相信有个终极真理,还有super power。

那本《星际浪子》,我怀疑有位“大师”也“研习”过。“外星人”侵占人类肉身的说法,似曾相识啊。
 
最初由 yokel 发布

"用西方的语言和文化体系,绝对受不了那种东方式的禅"

I am not sure how good you are at "western languages" and how well and thorough you understand "the western culture system", but your above statement seems to be a bit too absolute based on my limited understanding of English and English culture. Since 60s there have been countless books and translations of the classic eastern religions mainly from India and China. I found many westerners and western authers do understand very well those abstract "eastern" concepts. Also these concepts are getting more and more popular because of the spiritual wakening movement that has been going on in the west for some time.

You seem to be pretty good at beating around bush...:) Just kidding...:)

那么就烦请崇拜英文或自认为英文有两下子的翻译一下这几句道德经中的话吧:

"失道而后德, 失德而后仁, 失仁而后义, 失义而后礼, 夫礼者, 忠信之薄,而乱之首"

在下洗耳恭听.
 
最初由 roaring mouse 发布


first of all, i do not live in canada.
2nd, if u compare horizontally, depending on where you look, you may be ectastic or in despair. compared to the so-called "poorest" folks on earth, Sudanese or some in Africa, you can join your own conclusion. if u also want to find faults with USA, it is the richest and most powerful country, you will also find some of its people are without running water and toilets.
3rd, do not blame the chinese government. my parents suffered and I was also denied passports because of my involvment in 64. But I learned to be humble, not resentful and not bitter. I know you christians are tolerant and not resentful. why are you so bitter towards the chinese government. government's faults are from its people.
4th Canada has universal health insurance. How about USA? No society is equal. Democracy is an illusion. Religion, in no offending terms, is like sex.
"why are you so bitter towards the chinese government."

Me being bitter? You must be joking...LOL You are the first one calling me bitter towards anything or anyone in my life...LOL

Looks like you confused the English word "bitter" with the word "critical". I was just being critical, actually constructively critical towards the Chinese government by listing facts, not just throwing out accusations.

Unlike the negative words used in your "Religion is like sex." and in many other comments of yours towards religions, I did not even use a single negative word on the Chinese government. I was simply stating the facts about what are facing today's Chinese farmers and others alike. What's funny and ironic is at the same time you are the one that accusing me of bitter...:) You seem to have something you want to hide so you want to have a preemptive strike?...LOL

By the way, just for your information, me being constructively critical to the government has nothing to do with my personal or my family members' personal experience with the government. Also for your information, I do not consider myself Christian, but I do respect religions. I also found people who dislike religions seem less humble, more resentful and of course more bitter than those who believe or respect religions...:)

"depending on where you look, you may be ectastic or in despair."

Looks like the "black or white mentality" is still your way of thinking. Most mature people have abandoned that mentality or way of thinking long time ago.

"compared to the so-called "poorest" folks on earth, Sudanese or some in Africa"

Okay, let's do it. It's interesting that you picked Sudan that many consider a borderline terrorist state and that's why it got bombed. How about we add another African country, let's say Rwanda. It's notorious for the countrywide genocide. Let's add a similar one, how about North Korea? One of the poorest and least democratic countries on earth, and yet posing the biggest risk for nuclear war right next to China. You seem to suggest that these are the countries of this category that China should often compare and associate or hangout with.

You recommendation makes the situation more like a petty crime offender newly released from prison pondering what he'll do with his life. Two of his choices can be: 1) to look up to those decent law-abiding folks and say: "Hey I want to be one of them." Or 2) to compare himself with murderers, rapists and pedophiles and say: "Hey, that's the one I want to be." If you want countries of this category to be compared with China that has 5000-year history and civilization, and you want China to hang out with countries of this category. Be my guest. It does seem to show how sound your judgement is...:)

"if u also want to find faults with USA, it is the richest and most powerful country, you will also find some of its people are without running water and toilets."

What's your point? You don't seem to understand my argument at all by this statement. I am not sure if you have the concept of "individual character/behavior does not represent group character/behavior"? Or "individual value does not represent group average"? This is one of the things frustrating during discussions. You have to stop the natural flow of the discussion from time to time and spend time and energy explaining some basic concepts, and then pray he or she will understand the concepts.

Let me explain. Even if you manage to find an American who does not even have his underwear and a Chinese who is richer than Bill Gates, it is NOT relevant to my previous argument. My argument was we should compare horizontally majority of people at the bottom of a society between China and other countries, and see how foreign groups have been doing in the specified areas for the last 60 or so years.

"government's faults are from its people."

Unbelievable! I literally read this line three times for not believing my eyes and for trying to find if I have missed something, or there's a typo something.

"Democracy is an illusion. Religion, in no offending terms, is like sex."

After seeing the unbelievable line "government's faults are from its people." your above line does not surprise me any more. I think you are one of those people I would characterize (for lack of better term) "just don't get it". Take it easy, you might change some of your views when you get older, say 20 years older...:)
 
最初由 过客 发布
那么就烦请崇拜英文或自认为英文有两下子的翻译一下这几句道德经中的话吧:

"失道而后德, 失德而后仁, 失仁而后义, 失义而后礼, 夫礼者, 忠信之薄,而乱之首"

在下洗耳恭听.
The classic and abstract masterpiece "道德经" has been translated into English and many other foreign languages by many world renowned scholars many times over the years. The earliest translation probably was done before you were born. You can find them in many bigger libraries in Canada, US and UK. Sorry to surprise you.

I can sense there seem some animosity towards English in your tone. I hope I'm wrong. If I'm not, I think English is like many foreign languages - just a tool. No need to hate a tool or hate people who happen to use it. Good luck in your search for the translation...:)
 
不是牛奶煮牛肉也。
是[不可用山羊羔母的奶煮山羊羔],?蒌於出埃及?23章19?。
 
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