Minto购房悲剧----从走进Minto售房中心那一刻降临

在中国, 你如果遇到影帝你就是幸运的人了。 lol
 
遇到温影帝恐怕比中体育彩票的几率还低...,然后又如何?好像连房产开发商都敢让他流淌道德的血液...温影帝能解决个啥.
 
所以,在法制国家不想走法律程序,想靠行政干预来影响商业纠纷,就是个怪现象。
 
所以,在法制国家不想走法律程序,想靠行政干预来影响商业纠纷,就是个怪现象。

我觉得MP如果介入,不是一个行政干预的角色,而是起到一个调停、对话的作用(鉴于目前MINTO关闭了对话的大门)。
在这个社会里,MP/市长也没有行政干预MINTO的权利,MINTO绝对比他们强大得多。理论上,老百姓很多事都可以联系MP,他们就是被选上来为你服务的,当然,人家MP有没有兴趣管是另外一回事。

这里出这个主意是听到本地同事说的一个例子,不过现在估计LZ也听不进去。

这好像是本人发的第1000帖了,MARK 一下,以后该歇歇了。:p
 
记得刚来滴时候看Open house,跟售房经纪聊了几句,因为英语不太好,他告诉我,如果要签合同,必须有懂英语的人在场,否则,一旦出现纠纷,这个合同就无效了,因为,当事人英语不好,可能不能理解合同内容。。。。

俺说这些不知道能不能从沟通能力上找到点突破口和转机,不过看当事人连大老板都见过了,英语应该太好了。。。

我想售房经纪聊的中心意思是指你的知情权不能被剥夺。。

不认识budaowen也不了解她的英语能力所以不好评论,不过不妨顺着这个思路讨论一下,欢迎URL,老魏,老康点评。。

...2011年4月21日上午10点17分,我收到了从Minto总部Ming He女士(Minto工作人员)通过电子邮件寄来的APS(附件名称为AV6 APS.pdf)。He女士用电子邮件的方式把APS同时寄给我们四个人:我,我妹妹,房贷经纪人和房屋过户律师;同时她CC给了Carlos Vicente和我。第二天,我去Orleans取回了APS原件。Carlos Vicente要我签收APS时,我还问了:“所有文件都在里面吧?有没有问题?”他说:“所有文件都在里面,没有问题。”我当时万万没有想到,我在Minto售房中心Anna Paquette面前签的APS(我签完后,Anna Paquette当场给了我备份)和后来从Minto总部网上传过来的和我亲自领回来的APS有了关键性的不同。Minto总部在没经过另一方合同签署人(我和妹妹)知情和同意的情况下,没有把Anna Paquette让我在她面前签过字的Floor Plan 和Elevation Plan放回购房合同(APS)里,没有把这两份文件和其它文件一起交还给我。(注:Minto律师Edwin Honeywell后来否认这两张图纸是APS的一部分,也就是说,我的购房合同被Minto单方面变成了没有房型图和外观图的合同。。。。

买过新房的都知道,与site office的sales rep所签署的合同是pending for approval的,不是legal binding agreement。

在sales的一方,最后的决定权在head office。。从上面简短的描述来看,head office在review 合同初稿的过程中,发现了问题。就是floor plan(注意这个floor plan有budaowen的initials,是经她和sales rep双方都认可的)与相应的building permit不符..在这种情况下,sales rep需要知会budaowen,或重新起草合同;或经她同意认可从合同中撤出错误的floor plan。。。很明显这一重要的环节没有发生。。有几种可能:

1。head office 没有知会sales rep;
2。知会了sales rep,但sales rep没有知会budaowen;
3。sales rep的确知会budaowen了,但她英语不好没理解。

抛开第三种可能,前两个都说明房产商的售房环节或是有漏洞;或是执行不力;或是。。。etc

总之budaowen应有的知情权在这一环节中被剥夺,丧失了重新审核合同的机会(或退出,或要求价格调整etc)..这个合同从这时开始就应该无效。
 
To Gelivable

我想售房经纪聊的中心意思是指你的知情权不能被剥夺。。

不认识budaowen也不了解她的英语能力所以不好评论,不过不妨顺着这个思路讨论一下,欢迎URL,老魏,老康点评。。

I cannot comment on BDW's English either; I believe it's good enough to get her thoughts across verbally and in written. But this is hardly the point.

It is true that Capacity is one of the pillars that make a contract stand. For example, if a contracting party is a minor, mentally disabled or intoxicated etc., the contract should be void. However, illiteracy alone is not a qualifier of "incapacity". An illiterate person still has the capability to seek help, understand and agree to the terms of a contract, therefore can be legally competent. In real life, we all know that one can hardly use "poor English" as an excuse to escape his obligations.

买过新房的都知道,与site office的sales rep所签署的合同是pending for approval的,不是legal binding agreement。

在sales的一方,最后的决定权在head office。。从上面简短的描述来看,head office在review 合同初稿的过程中,发现了问题。就是floor plan(注意这个floor plan有budaowen的initials,是经她和sales rep双方都认可的)与相应的building permit不符..在这种情况下,sales rep需要知会budaowen,或重新起草合同;或经她同意认可从合同中撤出错误的floor plan。。。很明显这一重要的环节没有发生。。有几种可能:

1。head office 没有知会sales rep;
2。知会了sales rep,但sales rep没有知会budaowen;
3。sales rep的确知会budaowen了,但她英语不好没理解。

抛开第三种可能,前两个都说明房产商的售房环节或是有漏洞;或是执行不力;或是。。。etc

总之budaowen应有的知情权在这一环节中被剥夺,丧失了重新审核合同的机会(或退出,或要求价格调整etc)..这个合同从这时开始就应该无效。

You raised an interesting point here: "right to know" was violated, leading to breach of "informed consent". Minto's act of removing the floor plan pages (on which BDW initialled) without explicit notification is tricky and disgraceful - that's a mild way I can put it, but I am not sure to what extend it could be accused of forgery. Note that the contract was not binding yet by the time it came back from the Minto HQ. In normal practices, the buyer shall be given 5 business days to have his/her lawyer review the contract after both parties have signed, and if there is no objection raised after the period, the contract is in effect. BDW's lawyer should have reviewed the contract in which the floor plans were missing, and it would be a huge mistake if he had not explained to BDW what this implied.

These are just my humbled opinion as an amateur bystander.
 
I cannot comment on BDW's English either; I believe it's good enough to get her thoughts across verbally and in written. But this is hardly the point.

It is true that Capacity is one of the pillars that make a contract stand. For example, if a contracting party is a minor, mentally disabled or intoxicated etc., the contract should be void. However, illiteracy alone is not a qualifier of "incapacity". An illiterate person still has the capability to seek help, understand and agree to the terms of a contract, therefore can be legally competent. In real life, we all know that one can hardly use "poor English" as an excuse to escape his obligations.



You raised an interesting point here: "right to know" was violated, leading to breach of "informed consent". Minto's act of removing the floor plan pages (on which BDW initialled) without explicit notification is tricky and disgraceful - that's a mild way I can put it, but I am not sure to what extend it could be accused of forgery. Note that the contract was not binding yet by the time it came back from the Minto HQ. In normal practices, the buyer shall be given 5 business days to have his/her lawyer review the contract after both parties have signed, and if there is no objection raised after the period, the contract is in effect. BDW's lawyer should have reviewed the contract in which the floor plans were missing, and it would be a huge mistake if he had not explained to BDW what this implied.

These are just my humbled opinion as an amateur bystander.

谢谢回复。。。

根据budaowen在这里的描述,我的感觉是在签署购房合同时她的律师并没有involved (i.e., review the contract)。。这个case, 有很多lessons to learn的地方,大家今后可以在适当的时候开贴继续讨论..

合同是保护买卖双方的。。如何从APS中remove floor plan而不会引起事后的歧义,这里涉及到一个process上的问题。。以我个人和其他房产商打交道的经验,合同中任何文字的修改/删节必须留下可追述的文字的凭证,以从合同中撤走FLOOR PLAN为例,应该有如下步骤 (at least):

1。SALES REP明确知会买方,并征得买方同意;
2。双方共同VOID这个FLOOR PLAN,
3。双方签字。

至于是把已VOID的FLOOR PLAN从合同中抽走还是留在合同中备查,这里不重要。。很明显这一重要的步骤(2,3)也未见发生。。

同理,那个挑战LOT的文件,作为销售过程中的一部分,在房子未CLOSE之前被销毁,从process角度看也很让人不理解。
 
LZ又去举牌了吗?怎么样了?
 
其实,很佩服BUDAOWEN的执着。我个人认为可以退一步。我们会从生活中得到很多不同的大大小小的教训。作为移民,很大程度上因为语言的问题,可能从一开始就有这个障碍组绕你把房子大小的问题搞清楚。房子只是生活中的一部分,不能把所有精力,时间,健康都放在上面。等平静下来,心情就会不一样。
 
有能耐的不怕吃苦的走BUDAOWEN的路~~:)

没能耐的(也不一定)怕吃苦的(一定的)又想要钱的走魏副出的招~~:p

想知道楼主的新进展~~好奇:blowzy::)
 
我有一个建议:找另外一个建筑商去找minto的茬。
 
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