focus on today
资深人士
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赞 856 楼 的一句话：
"人一去分辨善惡，也就自己是善，別人是惡，" 所以，分辨善恶的结果是“罪”的出现。罪的工价是“死”。
"人一去分辨善惡，也就自己是善，別人是惡，" 所以，分辨善恶的结果是“罪”的出现。罪的工价是“死”。
好笑的基督教
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更多进化论科学家认为始祖鸟是具有飞行能力的观点
10、始祖鸟大脑－－具有适合飞行的视频处理与平衡能力
Witmer, L. M. (2004). Palaeontology: Inside the oldest bird brain". Nature 430 (7000)
In 2004, scientists analyzing a detailed CT scan of the braincase of the London Archaeopteryx concluded that its brain was significantly larger than that of most dinosaurs, indicating that it possessed the brain size necessary for flying. The overall brain anatomy was reconstructed using the scan. The reconstruction showed that the regions associated with vision took up nearly one-third of the brain. Other well-developed areas involved hearing and muscle coordination
文章原文
作者完全支持始祖鸟的missing link地位，但同时证明始祖鸟是具有飞行能力的 －－进化论的逻辑有时候不是很容易理解的 :blink::blink:
“The brain of Archaeopteryx was much like that of birds today, albeit of a primitive sort. It was larger than the brain of an average reptile of equivalent body size but smaller than any similarly sized modern bird brain. Its organization was also basically avian, with enhancement of those areas concerned with movement. Moreover, the visual centres are enlarged, suggesting that Archaeopteryx was a visually oriented animal. The new findings relating to the delicate inner-ear canals are particularly important, because recent studies have associated canal architecture with behaviour and mode of life. The canals of Archaeopteryx are again much more like those of birds than modern-day reptiles, suggesting that agility and coordination of head and eye movements were critical”
10、始祖鸟大脑－－具有适合飞行的视频处理与平衡能力
Witmer, L. M. (2004). Palaeontology: Inside the oldest bird brain". Nature 430 (7000)
In 2004, scientists analyzing a detailed CT scan of the braincase of the London Archaeopteryx concluded that its brain was significantly larger than that of most dinosaurs, indicating that it possessed the brain size necessary for flying. The overall brain anatomy was reconstructed using the scan. The reconstruction showed that the regions associated with vision took up nearly one-third of the brain. Other well-developed areas involved hearing and muscle coordination
文章原文
作者完全支持始祖鸟的missing link地位，但同时证明始祖鸟是具有飞行能力的 －－进化论的逻辑有时候不是很容易理解的 :blink::blink:
“The brain of Archaeopteryx was much like that of birds today, albeit of a primitive sort. It was larger than the brain of an average reptile of equivalent body size but smaller than any similarly sized modern bird brain. Its organization was also basically avian, with enhancement of those areas concerned with movement. Moreover, the visual centres are enlarged, suggesting that Archaeopteryx was a visually oriented animal. The new findings relating to the delicate inner-ear canals are particularly important, because recent studies have associated canal architecture with behaviour and mode of life. The canals of Archaeopteryx are again much more like those of birds than modern-day reptiles, suggesting that agility and coordination of head and eye movements were critical”
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补充：更多进化论科学家认为始祖鸟是“true bird”的证据
7、肺的结构
In June of 2009 researchers at Oregon State University made a fundamental new discovery about how birds have a lung capacity that allows for flight – and the finding meant it was unlikely that birds descended from any known theropod dinosaurs. “It’s really kind of amazing that after centuries of studying birds and flight we still didn’t understand a basic aspect of bird biology,” said John Ruben, an OSU professor of zoology. “This discovery probably means that birds evolved on a parallel path alongside dinosaurs, starting that process before most dinosaur species even existed.” (Quick, Devon, Ruben, John , “Cardio-pulmonary Anatomy in Theropod Dinosaurs: Implications from Extant Archosaurs,” Journal of Morphology, Vol. 270:10, May 20, 2009, pp.1232 – 1246.)
这是论文全文
7、肺的结构
In June of 2009 researchers at Oregon State University made a fundamental new discovery about how birds have a lung capacity that allows for flight – and the finding meant it was unlikely that birds descended from any known theropod dinosaurs. “It’s really kind of amazing that after centuries of studying birds and flight we still didn’t understand a basic aspect of bird biology,” said John Ruben, an OSU professor of zoology. “This discovery probably means that birds evolved on a parallel path alongside dinosaurs, starting that process before most dinosaur species even existed.” (Quick, Devon, Ruben, John , “Cardio-pulmonary Anatomy in Theropod Dinosaurs: Implications from Extant Archosaurs,” Journal of Morphology, Vol. 270:10, May 20, 2009, pp.1232 – 1246.)
这是论文全文
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补充楼上，这是ScenceDaily一篇相关的介绍文章
During walking and running in birds, hindlimb movement is generated primarily at the knee and ankle joints; in humans, movement occurs at the knee, ankle and hip joints. The bird's thigh does not move substantially from its nearly horizontal position where it provides rigid lateral support to the thin walled air-sacs of the respiratory system.
阿Q在这个肺部一个小结点上大费口舌，是因为有点感叹生物界的神奇：有别于所有其他动物，小鸟走路的大腿几乎不动，居然关系到小鸟的肺－－具有适合于飞行的体积小、效率高、薄壁气囊的呼吸系统－－对小鸟飞行是致命的
During walking and running in birds, hindlimb movement is generated primarily at the knee and ankle joints; in humans, movement occurs at the knee, ankle and hip joints. The bird's thigh does not move substantially from its nearly horizontal position where it provides rigid lateral support to the thin walled air-sacs of the respiratory system.
阿Q在这个肺部一个小结点上大费口舌，是因为有点感叹生物界的神奇：有别于所有其他动物，小鸟走路的大腿几乎不动，居然关系到小鸟的肺－－具有适合于飞行的体积小、效率高、薄壁气囊的呼吸系统－－对小鸟飞行是致命的
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继续:
Warm-blooded birds need about 20 times more oxygen than cold-blooded reptiles, and have evolved a unique lung structure that allows for a high rate of gas exchange and high activity level. Their unusual thigh complex is what helps support the lung and prevent its collapse.
。。。The position of the thigh bone and muscles in birds is critical to their lung function, which in turn is what gives them enough lung capacity for flight.
However, every other animal that has walked on land, the scientists said, has a moveable thigh bone that is involved in their motion – including humans, elephants, dogs, lizards and – in the ancient past – dinosaurs.
The implication, the researchers said, is that birds almost certainly did not descend from theropod dinosaurs, such as tyrannosaurus or allosaurus. The findings add to a growing body of evidence in the past two decades that challenge some of the most widely-held beliefs about animal evolution.
"For one thing, birds are found earlier in the fossil record than the dinosaurs they are supposed to have descended from," John Ruben said. "That's a pretty serious problem, and there are other inconsistencies with the bird-from-dinosaur theories.
"But one of the primary reasons many scientists kept pointing to birds as having descended from dinosaurs was similarities in their lungs," Ruben said. "However, theropod dinosaurs had a moving femur and therefore could not have had a lung that worked like that in birds. Their abdominal air sac, if they had one, would have collapsed. That undercuts a critical piece of supporting evidence for the dinosaur-bird link.
"A velociraptor did not just sprout feathers at some point and fly off into the sunset," Ruben said.
The newest findings, the researchers said, are more consistent with birds having evolved separately from dinosaurs and developing their own unique characteristics, including feathers, wings and a unique lung and locomotion system.
There are some similarities between birds and dinosaurs, and it is possible, they said, that birds and dinosaurs may have shared a common ancestor, such as the small, reptilian "thecodonts," which may then have evolved on separate evolutionary paths into birds, crocodiles and dinosaurs. The lung structure and physiology of crocodiles, in fact, is much more similar to dinosaurs than it is to birds.
"We aren't suggesting that dinosaurs and birds may not have had a common ancestor somewhere in the distant past," Quick said. "That's quite possible and is routinely found in evolution. It just seems pretty clear now that birds were evolving all along on their own and did not descend directly from the theropod dinosaurs, which lived many millions of years later."
"Frankly, there's a lot of museum politics involved in this, a lot of careers committed to a particular point of view even if new scientific evidence raises questions," Ruben said. In some museum displays, he said, the birds-descended-from-dinosaurs evolutionary theory has been portrayed as a largely accepted fact, with an asterisk pointing out in small type that "some scientists disagree."
说明，论文作者Ruben和Quick并没有反对进化论，他们支持的是：鸟与恐龙是“平行进化”，来自于更早的共同祖宗。但是这对俺无关紧要了
Warm-blooded birds need about 20 times more oxygen than cold-blooded reptiles, and have evolved a unique lung structure that allows for a high rate of gas exchange and high activity level. Their unusual thigh complex is what helps support the lung and prevent its collapse.
。。。The position of the thigh bone and muscles in birds is critical to their lung function, which in turn is what gives them enough lung capacity for flight.
However, every other animal that has walked on land, the scientists said, has a moveable thigh bone that is involved in their motion – including humans, elephants, dogs, lizards and – in the ancient past – dinosaurs.
The implication, the researchers said, is that birds almost certainly did not descend from theropod dinosaurs, such as tyrannosaurus or allosaurus. The findings add to a growing body of evidence in the past two decades that challenge some of the most widely-held beliefs about animal evolution.
"For one thing, birds are found earlier in the fossil record than the dinosaurs they are supposed to have descended from," John Ruben said. "That's a pretty serious problem, and there are other inconsistencies with the bird-from-dinosaur theories.
"But one of the primary reasons many scientists kept pointing to birds as having descended from dinosaurs was similarities in their lungs," Ruben said. "However, theropod dinosaurs had a moving femur and therefore could not have had a lung that worked like that in birds. Their abdominal air sac, if they had one, would have collapsed. That undercuts a critical piece of supporting evidence for the dinosaur-bird link.
"A velociraptor did not just sprout feathers at some point and fly off into the sunset," Ruben said.
The newest findings, the researchers said, are more consistent with birds having evolved separately from dinosaurs and developing their own unique characteristics, including feathers, wings and a unique lung and locomotion system.
There are some similarities between birds and dinosaurs, and it is possible, they said, that birds and dinosaurs may have shared a common ancestor, such as the small, reptilian "thecodonts," which may then have evolved on separate evolutionary paths into birds, crocodiles and dinosaurs. The lung structure and physiology of crocodiles, in fact, is much more similar to dinosaurs than it is to birds.
"We aren't suggesting that dinosaurs and birds may not have had a common ancestor somewhere in the distant past," Quick said. "That's quite possible and is routinely found in evolution. It just seems pretty clear now that birds were evolving all along on their own and did not descend directly from the theropod dinosaurs, which lived many millions of years later."
"Frankly, there's a lot of museum politics involved in this, a lot of careers committed to a particular point of view even if new scientific evidence raises questions," Ruben said. In some museum displays, he said, the birds-descended-from-dinosaurs evolutionary theory has been portrayed as a largely accepted fact, with an asterisk pointing out in small type that "some scientists disagree."
说明，论文作者Ruben和Quick并没有反对进化论，他们支持的是：鸟与恐龙是“平行进化”，来自于更早的共同祖宗。但是这对俺无关紧要了
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哎，我们在学习科学，cvitor怎么那么热衷谈论宗教呢？:flaming::flaming:
还是有糊涂的地方，为什么几亿年以前有鱼类，当时有恐龙吗，有人类吗？
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有一个网站列举了一些恐龙与人类同时存在的证据，俺粗粗看过，需要花点时间查证一下。阿Q坚持伤其十指不如断其一指的原则，先将始祖鸟的东西弄完
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更多进化论科学家认为始祖鸟不是恐龙“进化”而来的观点
11、化石纪录，generally
“At the higher level of evolutionary transition between basic morphological designs, gradualism has always been in trouble, though it remains the “official” position of most Western evolutionists. Smooth intermediates between Baupläne are almost impossible to construct, even in thought experiments; there is certainly no evidence for them in the fossil record (curious mosaics like Archaeopteryx do not count).” (Gould, S.J. and Eldredge, N., “Punctuated Equilibria: the Tempo and Mode of Evolution Reconsidered.” Paleobiology 3, 1977, p. 147.)
"Most recent workers who have studied various anatomical features of Archaeopteryx have found the creature to be much more birdlike than previously imagined. The resemblance of Archaeopteryx to theropod dinosaurs has been grossly overestimated." ( Alan Feduccia, The Origin and Evolution of Birds, Yale University Press, 1999, p. 81)
Paleontologists have tried to turn Archaeopteryx into an earth-bounded, feathered dinosaur （阿Q，正如前面＃838－＃844，中国科学家徐星所做的那样）. But it's not. It is a bird, a perching bird. And no amount of "paleobabble" is going to change that. (Alan Feduccia, "Archæopteryx: Early Bird Catches a Can of Worms," Science, Vol. 259, Issue. 5096, 5 February 1993, pp. 764-765)
Is Archaeopteryx the ancestor of all birds? Perhaps yes, perhaps no: there is no way of answering the question. It is easy enough to make up stories of how one form gave rise to another, and to find reasons why the stages should be favoured by natural selection. But such stories are not a part of science, for there is no way of putting them to the test. （Colin Patterson，某本进化论教科书的作者, Darwin's Enigma: Fossils and Other Problems, El Cajon, CA: Master Book Publishers）
11、化石纪录，generally
“At the higher level of evolutionary transition between basic morphological designs, gradualism has always been in trouble, though it remains the “official” position of most Western evolutionists. Smooth intermediates between Baupläne are almost impossible to construct, even in thought experiments; there is certainly no evidence for them in the fossil record (curious mosaics like Archaeopteryx do not count).” (Gould, S.J. and Eldredge, N., “Punctuated Equilibria: the Tempo and Mode of Evolution Reconsidered.” Paleobiology 3, 1977, p. 147.)
"Most recent workers who have studied various anatomical features of Archaeopteryx have found the creature to be much more birdlike than previously imagined. The resemblance of Archaeopteryx to theropod dinosaurs has been grossly overestimated." ( Alan Feduccia, The Origin and Evolution of Birds, Yale University Press, 1999, p. 81)
Paleontologists have tried to turn Archaeopteryx into an earth-bounded, feathered dinosaur （阿Q，正如前面＃838－＃844，中国科学家徐星所做的那样）. But it's not. It is a bird, a perching bird. And no amount of "paleobabble" is going to change that. (Alan Feduccia, "Archæopteryx: Early Bird Catches a Can of Worms," Science, Vol. 259, Issue. 5096, 5 February 1993, pp. 764-765)
Is Archaeopteryx the ancestor of all birds? Perhaps yes, perhaps no: there is no way of answering the question. It is easy enough to make up stories of how one form gave rise to another, and to find reasons why the stages should be favoured by natural selection. But such stories are not a part of science, for there is no way of putting them to the test. （Colin Patterson，某本进化论教科书的作者, Darwin's Enigma: Fossils and Other Problems, El Cajon, CA: Master Book Publishers）
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传统进化论观点认为，现代鸟类是在白垩纪第三纪灭绝事件（恐龙即在此期间灭绝）之后“进化”的，即现代鸟类没有与恐龙共存
刚才随便搜了一下，发现两个新的考古发现，将现代鸟类的“进化时间”往前推了一大截
Definitive fossil evidence for the extant avian radiation in the Cretaceous， Julia A. Clarke，Nature 20 January 2005
Here we identify a rare, partial skeleton from the Maastrichtian of
Antarctica15 as the first Cretaceous fossil definitively placed
within the extant bird radiation. Several phylogenetic analyses
supported by independent histological data indicate that a new
species,Vegavis iaai, is a part of Anseriformes (waterfowl) and is
most closely related to Anatidae, which includes true ducks. A
minimum of five divergences within Aves before the K/T boundary are inferred from the placement of Vegavis; at least duck,
chicken and ratite bird relatives were coextant with non-avian
dinosaurs
即在南极洲发现了Middle? to Upper Maastrichtian (6600－6800万年前66–68)的现代鸭子的most closely relative，至少恐龙与现代鸡、鸭、鸵鸟是共存的
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A lower jaw from a Cretaceous parrot, Thomas A. Stidham, Nature 396, 29-30 (5 November 1998)
All known Cretaceous (白垩纪，145－66 million years ago) bird fossils representing modern higher taxa are from the aquatic groups Anseriformes, Gaviiformes, Procellariiformes and Charadriiformes. Here I describe a toothless avian dentary symphysis (fused jawbone) from the latest Cretaceous of Wyoming, United States. This symphysis appears to represent the oldest known parrot and is, to my knowledge, the first known fossil of a 'terrestrial' modern bird group from the Cretaceous. The existence of this fossil supports the hypothesis, based on molecular divergence data, that most or all of the major modern bird groups were present in the Cretaceous.
All known Cretaceous (白垩纪，145－66 million years ago) bird fossils representing modern higher taxa are from the aquatic groups Anseriformes, Gaviiformes, Procellariiformes and Charadriiformes. Here I describe a toothless avian dentary symphysis (fused jawbone) from the latest Cretaceous of Wyoming, United States. This symphysis appears to represent the oldest known parrot and is, to my knowledge, the first known fossil of a 'terrestrial' modern bird group from the Cretaceous. The existence of this fossil supports the hypothesis, based on molecular divergence data, that most or all of the major modern bird groups were present in the Cretaceous.
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更多进化论科学家认为始祖鸟不是恐龙“进化”而来的观点
12、The Head
M.J. Benton, Nature 305:99 (1983), Palaeontology: Archaeopteryx — no new finds after all
原文
"details of the brain case and associated bones at the back of the skull seem to suggest that Archaeopteryx is not the ancestral bird, but an offshoot from the early avian stem."
12、The Head
M.J. Benton, Nature 305:99 (1983), Palaeontology: Archaeopteryx — no new finds after all
原文
"details of the brain case and associated bones at the back of the skull seem to suggest that Archaeopteryx is not the ancestral bird, but an offshoot from the early avian stem."
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更多进化论科学家认为始祖鸟不是恐龙“进化”而来的观点
13、Tail
‘It’s biophysically impossible to evolve flight from such large bipeds with foreshortened forelimbs and heavy, balancing tails."
Ann Gibbons, ‘New Feathered Fossil Brings Dinosaurs and Birds Closer’, Science 274:720–721, 1996.
14、Miscellaneous
Larry Martin, a specialist on ancient birds from the University of Kansas, opposes the theory that birds come from the same lineage as dinosaurs. While discussing the contradiction evolution falls into on the subject, Martin states: "To tell you the truth, if I had to support the dinosaur origin of birds with those characters, I’d be embarrassed every time I had to get up and talk about it."
13、Tail
‘It’s biophysically impossible to evolve flight from such large bipeds with foreshortened forelimbs and heavy, balancing tails."
Ann Gibbons, ‘New Feathered Fossil Brings Dinosaurs and Birds Closer’, Science 274:720–721, 1996.
14、Miscellaneous
Larry Martin, a specialist on ancient birds from the University of Kansas, opposes the theory that birds come from the same lineage as dinosaurs. While discussing the contradiction evolution falls into on the subject, Martin states: "To tell you the truth, if I had to support the dinosaur origin of birds with those characters, I’d be embarrassed every time I had to get up and talk about it."
