离天上掉馅饼的日子不远了?加拿大试行人人发钱

离天上掉馅饼的日子不远了?加拿大试行人人发钱
2016-08-30 08:53 来源: RCI 作者: 方华

安大略省打算试点实行保障最低收入项目

离天上掉馅饼的日子不远了?

保证每个加拿大人都有起码的最低收入这是多年来不断有人提出但总是没有下文的计划;但现在这个梦想似乎朝成为现实的方向迈进了一步。

加拿大广播公司记者Dean Beeby报道说,这个星期,加拿大议会前保守党参议员Hugh Segal将提交其研究报告,论证安大略省自由党政府在今年预算中提出的“保证最低收入试点项目”是否可行。该报告将在9月中旬公布,以接受来自公众的意见和建议。

安大略省政府为“保证最低收入试点项目”拨款2500万加元。这个试点项目的基本原则是,试点区内的所有加拿大人,不论其是否工作,每个月都能收到预订标准的最低收入。换句话说,每天躺在床上睡大觉也能稳拿最低收入。

Hugh Segal在接受加拿大广播公司采访时表示,试点地区至少应该有两个,一个试点是以整个小城镇为试点地区,另一个是在一个大城市中选择一个区进行试点;这样“点”和“面”的经验就都有了。

到目前为止,加拿大马尼托巴省和美国的“保证最低收入试点项目”的结果是正面和负面效果参半。正面效果是有助于解决贫困问题,负面效果是不少能够工作的人选择不工作,此外这样的项目要花费纳税人大量金钱。

今年夏天安格斯.雷德民意测验公司的调查显示,差不多三分之二的加拿大人不愿意多交税以推行确保每人每年3万加元最低收入的项目。
Ontario to test guaranteed-income program amid warnings about costs, effectiveness
Briefing note warns guaranteed-income projects costly, ineffective and encourage workers to stay home
By Dean Beeby, CBC News Posted: Aug 30, 2016 5:00 AM ET Last Updated: Aug 30, 2016 3:27 PM ET

The long-debated idea of a guaranteed minimum annual income for Canadians moves a small step closer to reality this week.

Former Conservative senator Hugh Segal delivers a report this week on how the "basic income pilot" announced in Ontario's February budget might work.

The Ontario government earmarked $25 million this fiscal year to establish a pilot project in the province sometime before April 2017, and appointed Segal in late June as an unpaid special adviser.

In an interview with CBC News, Segal gave some hints about his report, which is expected to be made public in mid-September for three months of public consultations.

He's quick to dismiss suggestions that guaranteed incomes foster laziness.

"For all those good folks on the right … who say that if you pay people to do nothing, they will do nothing, I remind them that 70 per cent of the people who live beneath the poverty line in Ontario … have jobs.

"They just don't earn enough through minimum wage to be above the poverty line," he said.

"So the notion that this is about chocolate, and couches, and popcorn, and watching TV is actually without any substantial basis in fact."

Segal, long an anti-poverty advocate, says any pilot project in Ontario must be in place for at least three years to be able to measure impacts effectively.

Test 2 population groups?
He also suggests two types of pilots could be tested, one in a small community to gauge its effect on the entire population, the other in one part of a larger community to compare its effect against the experience of the rest of the local population.

The Ontario government has indicated the pilot will not eliminate or consolidate existing poverty-reduction programs, but rather be designed as a top-up to such programs to lift its voluntary participants above the poverty line.

hugh-segal-feature.jpg

Hugh Segal. (CBC News)

Quebec, Alberta and Prince Edward Island in recent years have raised the possibility of minimum-income pilots. And the Liberal Party of Canada at its Winnipeg convention in late May passed a resolution making the concept party policy.

But Ontario will get no direct financial support from the Liberal government, even though Social Development Minister Jean-Yves Duclos, an economist from academia, closely studied the idea of guaranteed-income programs before entering politics.

Duclos' mandate letter makes no mention of the concept, and the government has committed only to providing relevant data to provinces that ask for it.

'It appears the results are mixed.'- May 31 briefing note for Social Development Minister Jean-Yves Duclos on previous guaranteed-income experiments
"There is no plan to establish a federal pilot program," said his spokesman Mathieu Filion, adding: "[Liberal] party policies are taken into consideration by the government but they are not automatically governmental policies."

Most Canadian advocates of such programs point to a federal-provincial experiment in Manitoba, dubbed "Mincome," between 1974 and 1979.

The experiment was conducted in Winnipeg and in the small community of Dauphin, with Ottawa picking up three-quarters of the $17-million budget. About 1,000 families got monthly cheques under the pilot.

A May 31 briefing note to Duclos about guaranteed annual income pilots, written shortly after the Liberals' Winnipeg convention, paints a somewhat less rosy picture than do advocates.

Less rosy
"Based on findings from the MINCOME project in Manitoba … and other GAI (Guaranteed Annual Income) pilots in the United States, it appears the results are mixed," says the heavily censored document, obtained by CBC News under the Access to Information Act.

"While there are poverty reduction impacts, these are sometimes offset by negative labour force participation rates. A GAI can also be very costly and does not necessarily lead to savings by government."

The document also warns about "the difficulty of delivering it to the self-employed, to farmers, and particularly to those who change location or family structure frequently."

On June 5, voters in Switzerland resoundingly rejected a proposal for a relatively generous guaranteed minimum income, but Finland is pressing ahead with a more modest program next year.

An Angus Reid Institute poll this summer also found broad skepticism among Canadians, with almost two-thirds of respondents indicating they would not be willing to pay more taxes to support a program providing $30,000 guaranteed annual income.

liberal-cabinet-20160202.jpg

Jean-Yves Duclos, minister of families, children and social development, studied minimum-income plans as an academic, but says the federal government will not be participating directly in Ontario's pilot. (Sean Kilpatrick/Canadian Press)

Ontario's own proposal is mindful of net costs. The February budget said the proposed pilot would "test whether a basic income would provide a more efficient way of delivering income support, strengthen the attachment to the labour force, and achieve savings in other areas, such as health care and housing supports."

Segal says his forthcoming report will lay out a balanced calculus of risks and benefits. But it's clear he's sold on the idea, having grown up in an impoverished working-class family in Montreal before the advent of universal health care.

"I do remember the debates around the dining room table on a Sunday night, about: Do we pay for the butcher? Or do we pay for the druggist? Or do we pay for the doctor? Or do we pay our rent? Or do we pay our heat? We can pick any two."
 
你别张口就来,Costco一个人一天都没有1吨肉切。一箱肉最重就是50lb。我那时工作的超市是市里面第二忙的,圣诞节也就是一个人切十多箱prime rib。洗碗在一般餐厅也不会让你在40度环境里洗几个小时,否则你早挂了。加拿大敢像你这样说的雇主少之又少,你别这么夸张。
能养活自己的工作有的是,政府每人发30000估计不用两年就发不出了。
你不能拿costco这样的公司说事,这样的公司很挣钱,所以福利当然好。这样的公司一个城市都未必有一个。其他的地方就没有那么好,老板工头盯着你,逼着你干活要快,就相当于一天恨不得让你切2吨肉。是你不了解情况吧。
 
你不能拿costco这样的公司说事,这样的公司很挣钱,所以福利当然好。这样的公司一个城市都未必有一个。其他的地方就没有那么好,老板工头盯着你,逼着你干活要快,就相当于一天恨不得让你切2吨肉。是你不了解情况吧。

我是以我的经验来说,你是基本靠猜。我从东岸到这里,从个人老板小超市到连锁大公司都干过。这一行的人流动性很大,信息也很畅通的。你要将加拿大的劳动环境看得这么灰暗我也没办法。
还有meat cutter很难请的,都是自己培养。专业屠夫更难找。
追求效率到处都是,码工赶项目也得没日没夜。我给我老板发邮件,他半夜回复的也不少。他的老板每天在hq7点到7点,能者多劳,pay by performance。估计你基本没在加拿大工作过几天。
 
我是以我的经验来说,你是基本靠猜。我从东岸到这里,从个人老板小超市到连锁大公司都干过。这一行的人流动性很大,信息也很畅通的。你要将加拿大的劳动环境看得这么灰暗我也没办法。
还有meat cutter很难请的,都是自己培养。专业屠夫更难找。
追求效率到处都是,码工赶项目也得没日没夜。我给我老板发邮件,他半夜回复的也不少。他的老板每天在hq7点到7点,能者多劳,pay by performance。估计你基本没在加拿大工作过几天。
哈哈,你又错了。应该说我在加拿大好公司/单位没工作过几天。所谓的自己培养,就是一垄断形式。待遇好的工人/技工岗位,不是一般中国人能进的。
 
最后编辑:
哈哈,你又错了。应该说我在加拿大好公司/单位没工作过几天。所谓的自己培养,就是一垄断形式。待遇好的工人/技工岗位,不是一般中国人能进的。
我就是一般中国人,我以前的同事还有一般非裔,一般印度人,一般印第安人,一般越南人等等等等。。。
我说过的的算不上好公司,就是大而已。
 
压力小工资高的工作只会在政府和公营机构,私有制企业是找不到的。
 
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