有关违反宪法.

[ray902]

最初由 panzer 发布


那你怎么定义“平等”和“不平等”？如果在政治意义上“平等”而在经济效益上“不平等”，你也认为值得？

现在在经济效益上有不平等吗？我看不出来~

 

[曾经是]

最初由 ray902 发布

现在在经济效益上有不平等吗？我看不出来~

How much is average salary in ShangHai?
How much is average salary in, say, lan zhou?

Ok, you will say it's the same case in other countries.But people in other countries have choice moving to bigger cities where salary is high.

I know you will use that "protecting native" execuse. Isn't a goverment supposed to maximize benefit of most of its citizens? The current ruling party in China claims it is representing ALL People in China, then why everything it is doing now is to benifit a very small percentage of Chinese people?

Don't know if you are the only kid in the family. Let suppose you have a brother and your parents treat your brother like a prince but treat you like a slave. Would you still love your parents unconditionally? Let aside that the communist Party is nothing like parents, but a group of selfish politicians. I am so sad that my homeland is controlled by these worthless, non-humane gunks.

 

[panzer]

最初由 wei 发布


......I know you will use that "protecting native" execuse. Isn't a goverment supposed to maximize benefit of most of its citizens? The current ruling party in China claims it is representing ALL People in China, then why everything it is doing now is to benifit a very small percentage of Chinese people?

......

If they are still Chinese people!

There are stories telling a lot senior officials hold foreign passports in secrecy, and their children either work in Multinational company's HQs in China, or as senior officials themselves. A modern and justified caste system, hurray!

 

[ray902]

最初由 wei 发布


How much is average salary in ShangHai?
How much is average salary in, say, lan zhou?

Ok, you will say it's the same case in other countries.But people in other countries have choice moving to bigger cities where salary is high.

I know you will use that "protecting native" execuse. Isn't a goverment supposed to maximize benefit of most of its citizens? The current ruling party in China claims it is representing ALL People in China, then why everything it is doing now is to benifit a very small percentage of Chinese people?

最初由 我没有.com 发布
举个例子，一个2个bedroom的房子，最多住四个人左右，超过了，大家之间必然会产生不少的矛盾，且渐渐恶化，所以就得控制人口，不能再继续让其他人进入了。如何控制呢？就得区别有交房租的和没交房租的。
同样的道理，在加拿大学习的留学生，所交纳的费用也是比当地居民高很多的。简而言之，追求绝对的公平是不可能的，也是不现实的。
暂住证有其弊端的一面，但请不要只看见弊端的一面而一叶障目了。

 

[panzer]

光线的涵养令人刮目相看！

 

[ray902]

最初由 wei 发布


How much is average salary in ShangHai?
How much is average salary in, say, lan zhou?

Ok, you will say it's the same case in other countries.But people in other countries have choice moving to bigger cities where salary is high.

I know you will use that "protecting native" execuse. Isn't a goverment supposed to maximize benefit of most of its citizens? The current ruling party in China claims it is representing ALL People in China, then why everything it is doing now is to benifit a very small percentage of Chinese people?

Don't know if you are the only kid in the family. Let suppose you have a brother and your parents treat your brother like a prince but treat you like a slave. Would you still love your parents unconditionally? Let aside that the communist Party is nothing like parents, but a group of selfish politicians. I am so sad that my homeland is controlled by these worthless, non-humane gunks.

"protecting native"其实本来就是为世人所接受的。美国的平均工资是多少？中国的平均工资是多少？大家不都是地球人？凭什么我想去平均工资较高的美国有诸多限制？暂住证并没有剥夺公民迁徙的自由，只不过是做出了某总限制罢了。要是不加限制，任由人潮将经济发展较好的城市的环境，治安等等条件全部破坏，要穷大家一起穷，这样才是你们期盼的民主？才是fair ?那么原住民呢？仅仅因为家乡的经济比较发达，就不得不承受家园被毁之苦吗？

 

[曾经是]

最初由 ray902 发布


就得区别有交房租的和没交房租的。

This is a MUCH better way of controlling the population. You are kicked out from this apartment is because you don't pay rent, not because you don't have that little "certification".

I believe controlling the population by raising the rent and liveing cost is way better than sterotyping.

同样的道理，在加拿大学习的留学生，所交纳的费用也是比当地居民高很多的。

This is totally ture. Why? Canadian government doesn't have to care about citizens of other countries. And the Canadian government NEVER claims that it represents ALL people on the earth.

 

[曾经是]

最初由 ray902 发布

凭什么我想去平均工资较高的美国有诸多限制？暂住证并没有剥夺公民迁徙的自由

Like I said before. The Goverment of United States doesn't give a damn to citizens of other countries. If we had a "global" goverment, then it would be another story.

 

[ray902]

好，那你告诉我，是不是要不加限制，任由人潮将经济发展较好的城市的环境，治安等等条件全部破坏，要穷大家一起穷，这样才是你们期盼的民主？才是fair ?那么原住民呢？仅仅因为家乡的经济比较发达，就不得不承受家园被毁之苦吗？

 

[曾经是]

最初由 ray902 发布
好，那你告诉我，是不是要不加限制，任由人潮将经济发展较好的城市的环境，治安等等条件全部破坏，要穷大家一起穷，这样才是你们期盼的民主？才是fair ?那么原住民呢？仅仅因为家乡的经济比较发达，就不得不承受家园被毁之苦吗？

The large-city problems are global. The traffic, air pollution, and the safety of public are all of them. NYC is one of the examples. I much prefer Ottawa to Toronto is because of this, too.

There is NO such a thing as perfect, but if you decide to stay in a mega city, that is the choice you made, you have to live with it.

Tokyo has even bigger population than ShangHai. Have you ever heard that people from Tokyo complaining "wai di ren" made their life miserable?

 

[ray902]

不要再拿外国的情况来根中国比了！现在广州，上海等大城市在实施暂住证的情况下，民工们尚且如潮般涌入，如果连暂住证的约束力都取消的话，这些城市早就人口爆炸了！中国城市间的经济发展差异是业以存在的！无论你同不同意政府“榜样城市”的做法，这都已经是个事实了。而中国人的盲从性又强，如果不加以约束，只怕连这几个榜样都难保了，哪里还能象现在这样搞西部大开发？

 

[曾经是]

最初由 ray902 发布
不要再拿外国的情况来根中国比了！现在广州，上海等大城市在实施暂住证的情况下，民工们尚且如潮般涌入，如果连暂住证的约束力都取消的话，这些城市早就人口爆炸了！中国城市间的经济发展差异是业以存在的！无论你同不同意政府“榜样城市”的做法，这都已经是个事实了。而中国人的盲从性又强，如果不加以约束，只怕连这几个榜样都难保了，哪里还能象现在这样搞西部大开发？

Guess we can never come to agreement since we view this issue from completely different points.

I assume that you are from a resonablity wealthy family and hence never had any chance to "feel" the pain of those who suffer. Maybe you were trained to be a "leader" since you were young and therefore the "soft" parts of you were purposely erased since "leaders" should have strong mind.

The big difference between us is:
I consider every one as a copy of human being. Every one has his/her own mind and they be able ( and be responsible ) to control his/her life. ( here every one means adult )
You consider most people as copies of Objects, only those in control can decide where the objects belong.

You can be an excellent game player, my friend. Since YOU have full control over the characters of the game. But real life neve works this way, we are not characters of video games. We THINK. When we are treated unfairly, we complain!!!

Don't know if you remember the story of the famouse flood in ancient China. If there is too much water, the only way to avoid flood is to dig more rivers instead of trying to hold the water at certain places.
This may not be the best analogy but you got my point.

You seem to be pretty rational and patient when argueing about this issue. I am glad that I didn't get bitter personal attacks like some of the posts I have replied. Thanks for being such a good "enemy".

 

[Caohaoying]

有同志只会不断的偷换概念.我就问一个问题.身为一个国家的公民,是
不是应该在本国内有平等的居住权?请注意.问题的研究对象是同一国的
公民.所以诸如美国人/外国人,加国人/国际学生,不在讨论范围.
至于说道国情,当然没有两国完全一样.我们也听过太多以此搪塞的理由.
但无可否认,通常这都是常理说不通后的最后一招.但凡有别的站得住脚
的理由,是不会出这招的.当然,在任意一个方面,我们都可以找到相同国家
对比.人口密度:印度,日本,英国....., 落后程度:印度,巴西,越南.
说道保护自己的利益,无可厚非.可是同一国人,还分自己人和外地人,以
至要分开保护,并制定有关制度加以确认.是不是很荒唐?

 

[ray902]

最初由 Caohaoying 发布
。。。
至于说道国情,当然没有两国完全一样.我们也听过太多以此搪塞的理由.
但无可否认,通常这都是常理说不通后的最后一招.但凡有别的站得住脚
的理由,是不会出这招的.

阁下口口声声说依照国情，实事求是，是“常理说不通后的最后一招”，那请问这一招如何不对，你可以给个理由吗？难道说因为这是最后一招，所以忽略不计？

 

[Caohaoying]

说道民工蜂拥而入上海,广州.为什么会这样?因为我们的城乡差别
太大.别的国家呢?印度的差别也很大,可人家不限制.孟买和加尔
各达照样发展.对于这种人流,只能疏导,不可堵塞.如果民工在上海
找不到工作,上海的消费又高,他们明年就不会在来.实际上这种情况
出现过.后来他们都去了更有机会的珠三角.这不仅没有影响当地人
的收入,反而是当地人更富.举个例子.小小的顺得,有科隆,容生,华宝
三个全国有名的空调厂,靠得就是外地劳动力.人家没有搞什么暂住证.
留不下来的民工,不会滞留,人家会回家的.别把民工都想得想要赖在
城市里一样.他们也是人,中国人.不是洪水猛兽.