那就谈谈“主义”(信仰)

其实科学也是需要“信”的。事实上所有奠基性的科学原理(即所谓公理)都是无法证实的,我们只能靠信心去接受他们。老华侨和我一起归纳了下面公理之成为公理的条件:

1)它必须至少对某个科学学科具有奠基性意义;
2)他是无法完全证实的;
3)他是无法证伪的;
4)它的逻辑推论也是无法证伪的;
5)它的逻辑推论对人类科学与工程实践具有运用价值;
6)由它而生的公式定理如果有错,必能找到推理过程中的错误;
7)公理一旦建立,那在这个公理体系内,它必须是自洽的,不能相互矛盾。

我们根据这公理7条来“检验”一下基督教的一个最根本的公理。这个公理有两部分:神是宇宙的创造主而圣经是神的话语。

(因为我们把“公理”的概念扩大应用到科学以外,原7条中局限于科学的部分自然要相应扩大)。

1)它必须至少对某个科学学科具有奠基性意义;

这条公理是基督教的基础。

2)他是无法完全证实的;

这个没话讲,否则就用不作“信”了。

3)他是无法证伪的;

基督教2000年,无数有神论无神论的哲学家思想家宗教家和普罗大众一直都在尝试,结果都是失败:)

4)它的逻辑推论也是无法证伪的;

同前。

5)它的逻辑推论对人类科学与工程实践具有运用价值;

这条是对科学公理而言。对于基督教而言,它的逻辑推论的应用在于基督教价值体系的建立。而建立在这些价值上的基督教文化则提供了科学发生发展的平台。

圣经是如此的丰富,神学家基督徒思想家根据圣经所推衍的有关人生社会的准则大多已被接受为普适价值(universal values),比如说博爱、宽恕、和平、自由、平等、人权、正义、求真 ...

前面说到科学的最大的公理是存在不变的客观规律,而它无法触及谁创造了客观真理这个更根本的问题。而圣经的一个逻辑推论是:神创造了宇宙万物,包括其中的客观规律。这些规律是不变的。

6)由它而生的公式定理如果有错,必能找到推理过程中的错误;

基督徒是罪人、神学家是罪人,连亲身跟随过主耶稣使徒们也都是罪人。罪人对神的话语理解时常出错实在是再自然不过的事。比如说基督教历史上曾经出现过迫害异端的事,罗马教廷也给基督教带入了很多人为的东西。但这些问题都能过通过回归圣经并且只能通过回归圣经得到解决。

7)公理一旦建立,那在这个公理体系内,它必须是自洽的,不能相互矛盾。

很多人一定听说过“以经解经”。

事实上科学也好、其它宗教也好、哲学思潮也好都在都能在一定程度上验证圣经的真理性。 而且在近现代史中,每当有人成功地用其它思潮部分代替圣经作为真理时就必然造成人类浩劫。比如说,达尔文进化论曾经被许多人奉为真理。其优胜劣汰适者生存的理论曾经导致了两次世界大战,更是提供了在全球范围内导致数千万人口非正常死亡的马克思主义的“自然科学来源”的重要部分。
 
first, i'd like to state that i do believe in God. (I'm catholic)
when i was in Highschool, i went to notre dame H.S, a catholic high school, and along with going to church, having prayers in the morning, community service hours, we also had to study world religion, which is where i learned about all kinds of religion around the world. i'm mentioning this to say that God tells us to be merciful as well as being open-minded about those who are different from us, whether it's the colour of their skin, the difference between our culture and yes, the difference of our beliefs.

so Chris88, your belief tells you to condemn those who don't agree with you or your religion? than i'm sure my God is different from your "God".
 
first, i'd like to state that i do believe in God. (I'm catholic)
when i was in Highschool, i went to notre dame H.S, a catholic high school, and along with going to church, having prayers in the morning, community service hours, we also had to study world religion, which is where i learned about all kinds of religion around the world. i'm mentioning this to say that God tells us to be merciful as well as being open-minded about those who are different from us, whether it's the colour of their skin, the difference between our culture and yes, the difference of our beliefs.

so Chris88, your belief tells you to condemn those who don't agree with you or your religion? than i'm sure my God is different from your "God".

是啊,主耶稣命令我们要爱人如己。请问,我在那里condemn过those who don't agree with me or my religion?
 
i'm mentioning this to say that God tells us to be merciful as well as being open-minded about those who are different from us, whether it's the colour of their skin, the difference between our culture and yes, the difference of our beliefs.

:cool:
 
是啊,主耶稣命令我们要爱人如己。请问,我在那里condemn过those who don't agree with me or my religion?

在那个佛像没被烧的帖子里。需要我把你的QUOTE翻出来吗?:o
 
在那个佛像没被烧的帖子里。需要我把你的QUOTE翻出来吗?:o

当然啊,我也很想知道是不是误解啊?谢谢。
 
在这个问题上我支持方舟子,真理是经得起检验的。这个木质的偶像应该烧一烧,这样那些迷信的善男信女们就知道佛大还是火大了:)
信仰和迷信没有区别。

我用了“真正的信仰”,这个其实也不严格。应该用“真理”代替“信仰”,谢谢指正。
呵呵,我这里的神是指那唯一的神,并非被巫婆神棍们学员们眼中的“神”。神自有他的计划,他对人类的拯救已经彰显在主基督的降世、被钉及复活中。

我的那句话,歪脖兄能挑出毛病我倒不觉得不通啊?不过这个无伤大雅。不辨了:)

正教与“邪教”的信仰,不仅仅是拜不拜活人而已。拜李师傅是错的,难道拜唐王就是对的?

正教与邪教的区别在于所信的是否为真理。从这个意义上说,与“我”的信仰不符的都(会被我认为)是邪教。

但我所谓的正教邪教是纯粹宗教意义上的正邪判断,并不带任何的政治法律意义。从政治法律的角度上讲,世界上一切的信仰都是人类思想的产品,而思想是无罪的。从这个角度上讲,世界上没有邪教,法轮功、撒旦教也应该有其自由传播的权利。

here you're generalizing that all other religion that's not yours is what you call "邪教"“迷信”,or basically, those who disagree with my belief is wrong. correct me if i'm wrong in interpreting your words.
 
谢谢。不过我不认为我在所引的帖子中condemn了任何人。何许你没有读懂我的帖子的意思?我所批判的,都是人的信仰而不是信仰的人。
 
巫婆神棍

谢谢您愿意理性讨论。

请注意我说的是“巫婆神棍们”眼里的“神”。我并没有有指认任何人是巫婆神棍,我只是说世界上存在一种“神”,就是巫婆神棍们眼里的神。
 
here you're generalizing that all other religion that's not yours is what you call "邪教"“迷信”,or basically, those who disagree with my belief is wrong. correct me if i'm wrong in interpreting your words.

Your understanding was right.

However, I believe it is my right to insist what I believe right is right. I didn't comdamn anybody by pointing out his/her opinioins, in this case, he/her relegions, are wrong. I am actually trying to share with them what I believe is the most precious I have ever had in my life, the truth.

Well, I may have offended someone. That's kind of unfortunate. I do feel sorry for them because that's not my intention. However, there is no regret on my part.
 
谢谢。不过我不认为我在所引的帖子中condemn了任何人。何许你没有读懂我的帖子的意思?我所批判的,都是人的信仰而不是信仰的人。

so you're telling me that condemning of belief is not considered condemn?
seriously?
 
so you're telling me that condemning of belief is not considered condemn?
seriously?

Yes, I am very serious about that. Condamning a belief is not condamning a person. Jesus commands us to love our neighbours and our enemies, not their thoughts, their beliefs, their religions, or their gods.

We love our enemies despite of their gods, not because of their gods.
 
Your teachers might have taught you to respect other's religions. That's fine. However, we have to be clear that's not what Jesus commands us to do. What your teachers taught you was about political correctness but not about seeking the truth.

Telling the truth many times means you would have to walk uphill and surf against the waves. So, political correctness is good unless you are ready to give up a little bit for the sake of seeking the truth. However, I would not try to force everyone to follow the path of convenience.
 
Yes, I am very serious about that. Condamning a belief is not condamning a person. Jesus commands us to love our neighbours and our enemies, not their thoughts, their beliefs, their religions, or their gods.

We love our enemies despite of their gods, not because of their gods.

my mom told me, never argue with a fool~
i should have listened to her~~
 
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