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oread
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You know what, I do feel more comfortable writing in English, just because I don't know what I would say in Chinese, but you could probably imagine that!
For someone who changes his identity like a cheap suit, I don't see how your comment provides any valuable arguments. I know who you are, but you DON"T know me, and for God sake, it's not even funny. So grow up and stop acting like a complete idiot.
For someone who changes his identity like a cheap suit, I don't see how your comment provides any valuable arguments. I know who you are, but you DON"T know me, and for God sake, it's not even funny. So grow up and stop acting like a complete idiot.
最初由 瞎聊 发布
还争个什么劲? 跟一个连余华和余杰都分不清的人, 听说她中文不大利索, 可以原谅嘛.:bsmile:
oread
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hpever,
Actually I said it a few times the reason I don't like Wang anymore: her language! Her language used to be so pure, simple yet so moving that it touched the deepest of your emotions. Unfortunately in her recent novels, she dragged her audience to a contest of what I call "literary jargons": words that are presented just for the hell of it, without any purpose. In one sentence she'd use 10 different synonyms, all describing the same emotion; or paraphrase the same idea over and over again through out a chapter. That's a waste of my time, and I think I have the right to say "I don't like that".
You know what your problem is: you don't listen, you only listen to what you want to hear. This is not your little reading club, this is a BBS and my opinion is just as valuable as yours. It's easy to put a "hat" over someone who just happens to disagree with you, but does that qualify as a conclusion derived from "deep thinking", like you so eloquently put? You may have a mission at your reading club, fine, all we know that now, but this forum is not intended to be a reading club nor will it ever be! I couldn't believe the arrogance you have displayed in your previous comments, just because I didn't say what you want to hear?!
余杰 -> 余华 was simply a typo. I wasn't sure about the author of "情爱画廊", that was my mistake. (In my defence, I did put a question mark indicating a doubt.) Like Wang, Zhang used to be one of my favorite authors, male or female. I still read some passages from her novel "隐形伴侣" at times. Good books touch you or make you think about your inner self. Unfortunately she has evolved into a popular writer as well. The heroin of "情爱画廊", this amazingly beautiful, intelligent, yet independent woman is just too stereotypical to be true or for anyone to relate to her. She was just like a Godess fallen from the heaven. Now in all fairness, I did detect Zhang's effort to describe the painful struggle of the Chinese artists, or Chinese arts in general. However this effort is dampened by the tedious love story between the 2 main characters.
I think you owe me an apology.
Actually I said it a few times the reason I don't like Wang anymore: her language! Her language used to be so pure, simple yet so moving that it touched the deepest of your emotions. Unfortunately in her recent novels, she dragged her audience to a contest of what I call "literary jargons": words that are presented just for the hell of it, without any purpose. In one sentence she'd use 10 different synonyms, all describing the same emotion; or paraphrase the same idea over and over again through out a chapter. That's a waste of my time, and I think I have the right to say "I don't like that".
You know what your problem is: you don't listen, you only listen to what you want to hear. This is not your little reading club, this is a BBS and my opinion is just as valuable as yours. It's easy to put a "hat" over someone who just happens to disagree with you, but does that qualify as a conclusion derived from "deep thinking", like you so eloquently put? You may have a mission at your reading club, fine, all we know that now, but this forum is not intended to be a reading club nor will it ever be! I couldn't believe the arrogance you have displayed in your previous comments, just because I didn't say what you want to hear?!
余杰 -> 余华 was simply a typo. I wasn't sure about the author of "情爱画廊", that was my mistake. (In my defence, I did put a question mark indicating a doubt.) Like Wang, Zhang used to be one of my favorite authors, male or female. I still read some passages from her novel "隐形伴侣" at times. Good books touch you or make you think about your inner self. Unfortunately she has evolved into a popular writer as well. The heroin of "情爱画廊", this amazingly beautiful, intelligent, yet independent woman is just too stereotypical to be true or for anyone to relate to her. She was just like a Godess fallen from the heaven. Now in all fairness, I did detect Zhang's effort to describe the painful struggle of the Chinese artists, or Chinese arts in general. However this effort is dampened by the tedious love story between the 2 main characters.
I think you owe me an apology.
I don't see hpever personally attacked anyone here. She just spoke her mind. I can't see any appology needed here.
I find it is easier to chat about books in person than on the Internet. First, we have to type
. Then, when we read the posts, we interprate them with our own imagination. It's very easy to cause misunderstandings. For example, sage said to hpever "You know what your problem is: you don't listen, you only listen to what you want to hear. This is not your little reading club..." I find these are very strong words and there must be some piece missing during the discussion to cause this.If hpever and sage had talked with each other in person, the conversation would have been totally different.Sage, if you have time, could you join us the next meeting(yes, of course I am from that little reading club
). If you get together with us once, you may find it different from what you think. I am sorry that I have to type in English. I just deleted my NJStar.
oread
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abby: you are so sweet! What I found offensive was that hpever categorized my comments as "childish" and what I understood that he inferred was that they were dumb, irresponsible, in short a conclusion without any thoughts.
Once again, this is not a reading club and I'm really not interested to review a book I dislike, but I believe I can still just say "I don't like that book". Whether or not I choose to explain to you why I don't like that book is totally up to me, don't you agree? On the other hand, hpever is forcing (or at least tryint to force) everyone to conform to your reading club standards. Unfortunately abby, this is only going to push more people away.
I think he does owe me an apology, and I apologize for using the adjective "little" in front of "your reading club." I remain firm on my other comments.
Once again, this is not a reading club and I'm really not interested to review a book I dislike, but I believe I can still just say "I don't like that book". Whether or not I choose to explain to you why I don't like that book is totally up to me, don't you agree? On the other hand, hpever is forcing (or at least tryint to force) everyone to conform to your reading club standards. Unfortunately abby, this is only going to push more people away.
I think he does owe me an apology, and I apologize for using the adjective "little" in front of "your reading club." I remain firm on my other comments.
Sage,
I don't think it's a big deal to be called "childish", esp. on the BBS, and I believe hepever didn't mean that to you personally.
Sometimes people do use some 'strong' words to express their opinion, it may not very nice, while not mean to be rude. Actually there's one post from you in which you refereed to someone as "泼妇", you didn't mean it, right? Do you feel you own her an apology?
Speaking of Reading Club, we never intend to turn this forum to our reading club, and never intend to be judgmental to other's opinion. I am surprised by what you said "force everyone to conform to your reading club standards", we don't hold any specific standards here, the only thing we have been expecting is "exchange the thoughts seriously", do you feel uncomfortable about that?
I don't see anyone from reading club to force anyone here to like someone/somebook, or stop anyone saying "I don't like that book" without any comments. As you said, it's totally up to you and that's perfectly ok. we just think it's more valuable to exchange not only opinion but also the thoughts behind that.
By the way, thanks for sharing your thoughs on "情爱画廊", I do think it values more than just saying "I don't like that book".
I don't think it's a big deal to be called "childish", esp. on the BBS, and I believe hepever didn't mean that to you personally.
Sometimes people do use some 'strong' words to express their opinion, it may not very nice, while not mean to be rude. Actually there's one post from you in which you refereed to someone as "泼妇", you didn't mean it, right? Do you feel you own her an apology?
Speaking of Reading Club, we never intend to turn this forum to our reading club, and never intend to be judgmental to other's opinion. I am surprised by what you said "force everyone to conform to your reading club standards", we don't hold any specific standards here, the only thing we have been expecting is "exchange the thoughts seriously", do you feel uncomfortable about that?
I don't see anyone from reading club to force anyone here to like someone/somebook, or stop anyone saying "I don't like that book" without any comments. As you said, it's totally up to you and that's perfectly ok. we just think it's more valuable to exchange not only opinion but also the thoughts behind that.
By the way, thanks for sharing your thoughs on "情爱画廊", I do think it values more than just saying "I don't like that book".
Sage: first of all, I have a feeling you are getting very emotional and personal, you used a lot of strong words:
“You know what your problem is: you don't listen, you only listen to what you want to hear.”
“This is not your little reading club …but this forum is not intended to be a reading club nor will it ever be!”
“I couldn't believe the arrogance you have displayed…”
I find those words negative and destructive to this discussion and assaulted my fellow reading club members.
I assume you are already calmed down thus I can put my two cents here and not causing any misunderstanding.
首先 , 我从没有想也没有试图要强加于任何人我或者读书会的观点(谁又会有此能力呢). 前面已经讲过了, 在这里发贴只是寻找兴趣相投的朋友. 很偶然的, 有人喜欢我们都很喜欢的一本书, 所以大家交流了彼此的想法, 你不喜欢其作者, 我本人非常有兴趣知道为什么, 因为我以为你会让我看到我没有看到的东西. 你转发了余杰的文章, 我假设你同意其所有的观点, 所以我认真的读了, 而且讲了我不同意的地方. 不懂你为什么会得到我不倾听, 而且期望所有人都同意我观点的结论?即使在读书会里, 也不是所有人都欣赏王安忆, 我们也有过同样的讨论, 不知道有什么地方让你如此愤怒?
如今在网上情绪化的论调到处都是, 甲说, 我不喜欢这部电影, 难看死了, 乙说, 那本书简直是垃圾. 可是人们真正想听到的是理由, 是帮助人们提高的东西, 如果每个人都象小孩子一样, 我不喜欢苹果, 喜欢香蕉, 那么这样的交流意义何在?
我还是不懂你为什么会要求我道歉, 如果说我不同意你评论书的方式就必须道歉的话, 那么你用了一些轻蔑的词语讲我和读书会又该如何呢?
最后, 如果再有如此情绪化和个人化的贴子, 我不会予以理会.
“You know what your problem is: you don't listen, you only listen to what you want to hear.”
“This is not your little reading club …but this forum is not intended to be a reading club nor will it ever be!”
“I couldn't believe the arrogance you have displayed…”
I find those words negative and destructive to this discussion and assaulted my fellow reading club members.
I assume you are already calmed down thus I can put my two cents here and not causing any misunderstanding.
首先 , 我从没有想也没有试图要强加于任何人我或者读书会的观点(谁又会有此能力呢). 前面已经讲过了, 在这里发贴只是寻找兴趣相投的朋友. 很偶然的, 有人喜欢我们都很喜欢的一本书, 所以大家交流了彼此的想法, 你不喜欢其作者, 我本人非常有兴趣知道为什么, 因为我以为你会让我看到我没有看到的东西. 你转发了余杰的文章, 我假设你同意其所有的观点, 所以我认真的读了, 而且讲了我不同意的地方. 不懂你为什么会得到我不倾听, 而且期望所有人都同意我观点的结论?即使在读书会里, 也不是所有人都欣赏王安忆, 我们也有过同样的讨论, 不知道有什么地方让你如此愤怒?
如今在网上情绪化的论调到处都是, 甲说, 我不喜欢这部电影, 难看死了, 乙说, 那本书简直是垃圾. 可是人们真正想听到的是理由, 是帮助人们提高的东西, 如果每个人都象小孩子一样, 我不喜欢苹果, 喜欢香蕉, 那么这样的交流意义何在?
我还是不懂你为什么会要求我道歉, 如果说我不同意你评论书的方式就必须道歉的话, 那么你用了一些轻蔑的词语讲我和读书会又该如何呢?
最后, 如果再有如此情绪化和个人化的贴子, 我不会予以理会.
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OU的向CU的致敬：)
多谢OTTAWA_CA！
那么这个论坛上，恐怕就属笑言最“年轻”了
我来此不久，可好象也并没受到什么非人的待遇啊。大家风格不同，自由发言，很好啊。不过，我觉得大家都能与人为善才好。有些话虽然说得客客气气，但骨子里透着的那种不屑与高高在上，甚至很明显的指贬，恐怕没人看不出来吧。大家都是明眼人，不能说了人家还不承认，还不让人家还嘴吧。
最初由 ottawa_ca 发布
有件事笑老大也许不知。读书会的网友不能说是“新力量”，而是这坛子上的“老网虫”。
多谢OTTAWA_CA！
那么这个论坛上，恐怕就属笑言最“年轻”了
我来此不久，可好象也并没受到什么非人的待遇啊。大家风格不同，自由发言，很好啊。不过，我觉得大家都能与人为善才好。有些话虽然说得客客气气，但骨子里透着的那种不屑与高高在上，甚至很明显的指贬，恐怕没人看不出来吧。大家都是明眼人，不能说了人家还不承认，还不让人家还嘴吧。
最初由 ottawa_ca 发布
有件事笑老大也许不知。读书会的网友不能说是“新力量”，而是这坛子上
的“老网虫”。
这坛子上起新 FORUM 的定式，网友要求，众人讨论， RIVEN 开坛
那 SHREK 可还在渥太华？今年圣诞节我不回家，等着他请我喝酒
OTTAWA_CA:
无论在网上还是网下,我并不认识您,不知您如何得知我是这坛子上"老网虫".
我去年11月份发出一封询问读书的帖子,由此认识了一些网上的朋友,也是读书会的缘起.以后很少光临贵坛,更不用说发表意见.(每次读书会的聚会之前,会有人代表大家在网上发出通知).至于您提到的RIVEN提出建一个读书论坛之事,我本人更是从未耳闻,更和我们的读书会没有瓜葛.
大概一个月之前,因为又临读书定期聚会,才注册了网名,希望在这里结识更多的朋友,原因也很简单,一些朋友离开了读书会,我们感到更多朋友的参与能带来更多收获. (我们确曾有一位网名叫SHREK的会员,他因为工作关系今年春天去了美国,现在文学苑的所有帖子都在他离开之后,与他无关.不太明白您在这里提到他是要说明什么).
这一个月以来,我们确实常常留恋于此,发了一些心得,也得到不少有价值的回应和建议,我们受益非浅,也心存感谢.但也有一些回应让人失望.我们愿意聆听不同的意见(其实,不同的观点应能带来更多的收获,如果大家都能就事论事得话.),可是更希望能彼此尊重,诚心交流.
ottawa_ca：
谢谢您的解释。您帖子中的“老网虫”并无贬意，是我误会了。
我确实记得有一封关于池莉的帖子，但不记得RIVEN提出建一个读书论坛之事，可能是我忘记了，也可能是我当时没留心。对于可能引起的误解我表示抱歉。
这一切也不难理解，毕竟网络在提供便利交流的机会同时，也制造了引起误解，阻碍沟通的可能。如果方便，希望您(还有更多的朋友)来参与读书会的聚会，也许面谈更直接，有效。
我本人和SHREK没有联系，但读书会里可能有人有他的联系方式，转达一句话不难，如果您愿意，也可直接和他联系。
谢谢您的解释。您帖子中的“老网虫”并无贬意，是我误会了。
我确实记得有一封关于池莉的帖子，但不记得RIVEN提出建一个读书论坛之事，可能是我忘记了，也可能是我当时没留心。对于可能引起的误解我表示抱歉。
这一切也不难理解，毕竟网络在提供便利交流的机会同时，也制造了引起误解，阻碍沟通的可能。如果方便，希望您(还有更多的朋友)来参与读书会的聚会，也许面谈更直接，有效。
我本人和SHREK没有联系，但读书会里可能有人有他的联系方式，转达一句话不难，如果您愿意，也可直接和他联系。
