精华 Election 2004 poll

[阿童木]

up.. it is getting interesting

 

[oread]

Funny how you talked about 费厄泼赖, I rather believe that fair play and politics are mutually exclusive.

The problem with today's politicians is: they don't believe in anything, it's all politics, it's all part of a game: the poll, the platform, the promises...all game. Back in the old days, the politicians believed in something, like Trudeau, he had a vision, he BELIEVED in the concept of a "just society", and that made a difference.

You can't sell the idea to people if you don't believe in it. So far, I haven't seen a leader who believes in his own vision, if there is any.

最初由 msft 发布
Not like a foreplay in which one party may serve the other more, it's all about FAIR PLAY.

 

[一把手]

最初由 渐渐 发布
Funny how you talked about 费厄泼赖, I rather believe that fair play and politics are mutually exclusive.

The problem with today's politicians is: they don't believe in anything, it's all politics, it's all part of a game: the poll, the platform, the promises...all game. Back in the old days, the politicians believed in something, like Trudeau, he had a vision, he BELIEVED in the concept of a "just society", and that made a difference.

You can't sell the idea to people if you don't believe in it. So far, I haven't seen a leader who believes in his own vision, if there is any.

Politics is politics, no matter old days, now or future. They fight fiercely to get that job, a job that manages this country and billions of tax money. Some appear dirty and mean, while some appear passionate and "charming". But the bottom line is the same, it's a job to manage this country, most importantly, tax money.

Having said all the above, let's get back to our original topic. A "just society", as it's name suggests, is a "just" one. In order to keep (rich) Quebec in Canada, federal government has been injecting billions into it, billions of dollars from other provinces, some of which are actually less weathy than Quebec. Do you think this is "just"? Is it as just as using military to force them to stay?

I love to see Q remain in Canada. But it all comes to how much English Canada is willing to pay to keep them.

You suggested me to shift from focus on "materialistic gains", but isn't it exactly THE "materialistic" stuff our federal government has been using to keep Quebec?

By the way, my "fair play" is not about politics. I refer to the fact that federal government subsidizes wealthy Q.

As to foreplay, that's what I really meant.

 

[spacespace]

FEDERAL 和 PROVINCIAL 的选举有着很大的区别。
对於FEDERAL ELECTION，我还是倾向与LIBRAL。
虽然对省府的BUDGET很气愤，但我还是会支持LIBRAL 在FEDERAL的选举。
只是3年后省选时，我一定要投保守党。

 

[terry]

最初由 spacespace 发布
FEDERAL 和 PROVINCIAL 的选举有着很大的区别。
对於FEDERAL ELECTION，我还是倾向与LIBRAL。
虽然对省府的BUDGET很气愤，但我还是会支持LIBRAL 在FEDERAL的选举。
只是3年后省选时，我一定要投保守党。

说得好，是个明白人。

另外我很不喜欢STEPHEN HARPER， 他的面相很不好，很有一点奸相。大家可以在电视上看看他的眼神，游弋不定，喜欢斜眼看人。和中国电视剧<<偷渡>>里的反角"郝仁清"似的。

 

[一把手]

最初由 spacespace 发布
FEDERAL 和 PROVINCIAL 的选举有着很大的区别。
对於FEDERAL ELECTION，我还是倾向与LIBRAL。
虽然对省府的BUDGET很气愤，但我还是会支持LIBRAL 在FEDERAL的选举。
只是3年后省选时，我一定要投保守党。

If you don't teach the L a lesson, no matter federal or provincial, they will think they get away from this because it does NOT take 3 years for people to forget.

 

[阿童木]

最初由 msft 发布


If you don't teach the L a lesson, no matter federal or provincial, they will think they get away from this because it does NOT take 3 years for people to forget.

Agree!! a lesson is needed for Liberal!!! Reduce them to minority!! Then vote them again in next quick election (expected in less than a year, if Liberal is minorty this time)

 

[开喜]

思前想后, 还是投 Conservative.

的确Liberal看上去更同情移民, 但是Liberal的政绩实在太烂了, 三届连任, 但是经济却搞不好, 医疗被砍的斑斑驳驳, 完全起不到治病救人的目的, 国家花那么多钱, 却弄的病人医生双方都不满, 这是制度问题, 管理问题, 已经不是经费问题了. Paul Martin就是再投钱, 还是掉到无底洞里去. 除了医疗制度需要彻底改革以外, 政府的廉政也是大问题, 如果不靠换政党, 不容易改变. 看看最近 Sponsorship scandal的处理就知道, 他们根本没有心思整顿廉政问题, 全是在对付纳税人. 这么大的问题, 都够刑事案了, 怎么用区区一个"scandal"这么小的词就对付过去了呢. Liberal骗人实在太过分了, 把老百姓当傻瓜一样随便摆布.

Conservative也有他的问题, 太亲美国, 而且对移民不友善. 但是如果他们能把国家治理好, 把经济搞上去, 把廉政搞好, 如果再能够做些医疗制度方面的改革, 为了国家大局, 还是情愿选他们啊.

 

[yh_abc]

I'd really hear more about why people think Conservative "对移民不友善", I mean that looking at its platform, I do not see anything wrong. To me, Liberal is more like a socialist, its immigration policy needs to be re-examined somehow, esp. in family-sponsored immigrants(I do not mean Chinese immigrants). I once read that someone in Africa sponsored all his relatives (including his parents / grandparents, his wife's parents / grandparents / young sisters) all to Canada easily. Whether this is fair to other tax payers and society, it is worth debating.

 

[oread]

Hilarious, particularly coming from you, no kidding. :glowface:

最初由 无业游民 发布
人吃人的资本主义更适合于华人。所以在此俺声嘶力竭咬牙切齿地唆使大家去投保守党的票。

 

[oread]

See, you are talking about money again, but it's not all about money.

Quebec is part of Canadian heritage, bilingualism is a manifestation of respect for the Canadian heritage. Do you know the feelings of Quebecois when they heard of the ads scandal? How dare the federal government trying to bribe us! You think they care about how much money the federal government spent to keep them in this country? You think that the ads money actually made a difference in the referendum?

I believe that the majority of Quebecois do want to stay in Canada, and I'm also bothered by how much more Quebec is getting just because they scream louder, but I don't have a solution, maybe a more decentralized governmental structure, maybe more mergers and hostile takeovers, I have no idea, and so far, no politician has sold to me yet.

By the way, not all politicians are dirty, and for those politicians who really believed in something, their bottom line is definitely different. Think George Washington or more recent Nelson Mandela, they put today's politicians to shame.

最初由 msft 发布


Politics is politics, no matter old days, now or future. They fight fiercely to get that job, a job that manages this country and billions of tax money. Some appear dirty and mean, while some appear passionate and "charming". But the bottom line is the same, it's a job to manage this country, most importantly, tax money.

Having said all the above, let's get back to our original topic. A "just society", as it's name suggests, is a "just" one. In order to keep (rich) Quebec in Canada, federal government has been injecting billions into it, billions of dollars from other provinces, some of which are actually less weathy than Quebec. Do you think this is "just"? Is it as just as using military to force them to stay?

I love to see Q remain in Canada. But it all comes to how much English Canada is willing to pay to keep them.

You suggested me to shift from focus on "materialistic gains", but isn't it exactly THE "materialistic" stuff our federal government has been using to keep Quebec?

By the way, my "fair play" is not about politics. I refer to the fact that federal government subsidizes wealthy Q.

As to foreplay, that's what I really meant.

 

[hxp417]

日子过得舒服的想保持现状。

日子过得不行的想改弦更张。

 

[一把手]

最初由 渐渐 发布
See, you are talking about money again, but it's not all about money.

Quebec is part of Canadian heritage, bilingualism is a manifestation of respect for the Canadian heritage. Do you know the feelings of Quebecois when they heard of the ads scandal? How dare the federal government trying to bribe us! You think they care about how much money the federal government spent to keep them in this country? You think that the ads money actually made a difference in the referendum?

I believe that the majority of Quebecois do want to stay in Canada, and I'm also bothered by how much more Quebec is getting just because they scream louder, but I don't have a solution, maybe a more decentralized governmental structure, maybe more mergers and hostile takeovers, I have no idea, and so far, no politician has sold to me yet.

By the way, not all politicians are dirty, and for those politicians who really believed in something, their bottom line is definitely different. Think George Washington or more recent Nelson Mandela, they put today's politicians to shame.

True, I was talking about money. Money is the most importatnt issue in politics, isn't it? I know money is not all, but hey, if it were not for money, nobody would blame Mr. McGinty. Who cares about whether or not an unrelated person is credible. But if it has soemthing to do with "the source of all evils" in everyone's pocket, it matters, and matters a lot.

As to Quebec issue, my understanding is language plays a key role in culture and sense of belonging. If the people there continue to discriminate English and don't want to merge themselves into the bigger Canada, honestly, I don't see a bright future for them to remain in Canada. After all, French is not a decadent language, there is really no need to cherish it as if it's an endangered species.

 

[江声浩荡]

去年SARS大流行时,华人被视为洪水猛兽,渥太华就有过公交司机拒载华人的事例.克里田和马丁先后到多市唐人街就餐,以表示对华人总体的支持.现在再想起这件事似乎不算什么,但在当时很是感动,至少意识到自己属于弱势团体,自由党至少还care我们(当然归根结底是care我们的选票了).不记得其他党做过什么"姿态".

没有读到各党的platform,不太明白为什么有人觉得保守党经济上会比自由党成功.自由党在联邦执政这些年,加拿大经济在G8中算得上比较好的,马丁身为财长,功不可没.相比之下,安省在保守党管理之下,欠下几十亿债务.自由党倒霉,接下这个烂摊子.

个人喜欢social liberal, economical conservative的政府.马丁在自由党属于center,算得上几十年一遇的总理人选.可惜生不逢时,被安省自由党和sponsorship scandal一搅和,弄不好连minority government也保不住.想到Harper有当总理的可能就不寒而栗.

 

[seniorguy]

马丁确实是个好人选，可惜被老克压得太久，这才刚出头就有完蛋的危险，可惜可惜。老马看来要被老克和麦帅哥暗算了！！！

最初由 kate 发布
去年SARS大流行时,华人被视为洪水猛兽,渥太华就有过公交司机拒载华人的事例.克里田和马丁先后到多市唐人街就餐,以表示对华人总体的支持.现在再想起这件事似乎不算什么,但在当时很是感动,至少意识到自己属于弱势团体,自由党至少还care我们(当然归根结底是care我们的选票了).不记得其他党做过什么"姿态".

没有读到各党的platform,不太明白为什么有人觉得保守党经济上会比自由党成功.自由党在联邦执政这些年,加拿大经济在G8中算得上比较好的,马丁身为财长,功不可没.相比之下,安省在保守党管理之下,欠下几十亿债务.自由党倒霉,接下这个烂摊子.

个人喜欢social liberal, economical conservative的政府.马丁在自由党属于center,算得上几十年一遇的总理人选.可惜生不逢时,被安省自由党和sponsorship scandal一搅和,弄不好连minority government也保不住.想到Harper有当总理的可能就不寒而栗.